Curse

Bryant Again · May 08, 2007, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xeeron

Including any level differences that are meaningful (unlike our titles, which have close to 0 effect on the gameplay) will lead to horrible level discrimination. Ever tried getting into a HA group at rank0? Ever seen people kicking others who do not have a level X sunspear rank in DoA? It would be like this, just much worse.

Player discrimination will always be there, it cannot be avoided.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Domino

There's a word for that though. It's called twinking

Except twinking costs money, aye?

However, you do bring up a pretty cool point: Okay cool, sidekick system will match the low level player to the higher level player.

...What about their gear? Will the low-lev players' gear be raised as well? And the brings up the bigger question: How much will gear matter in Guild Wars 2?

Domino · May 08, 2007, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Except twinking costs money, aye?

However, you do bring up a pretty cool point: Okay cool, sidekick system will match the low level player to the higher level player.

...What about their gear? Will the low-lev players' gear be raised as well? And the brings up the bigger question: How much will gear matter in Guild Wars 2?

The "sidekick system" that they've described seems fundamentally flawed... just boosting someone's stats to match the group doesn't make him or her a better teammate. .... on top of that you're right, twinking sometimes does cost money, which at its worst will result in more trade spam as high-level players let low level players farm off their XP with this "sidekick bonus" (that's how I visualize it working, seeing as A-net has been a tad vague about a lot of GW2 features)

basically I really think there's no substitute for playing through the game, getting your level up, and being an experienced player.

does getting this sidekick bonus give you skills? Just because you now have 500 health and attributes, but starter skills... is that going to help you do any sort of serious quest or mission?

granted this is all speculation, but right now I'd say the entire idea is flawed. If this were a traditional mmo it'd work better, but GW isn't a traditional mmo.

milias · May 08, 2007, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Personally, I wouldn't buy GW2 if there isn't a level cap. I like the current level cap at 20, because it's casual player friendly. If the level cap is 100, there's no way I'm going through the grind to level up my characters. If I wanted that, I'd play WoW.

Lifeinthefridge · May 08, 2007, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by milias

Personally, I wouldn't buy GW2 if there isn't a level cap. I like the current level cap at 20, because it's casual player friendly. If the level cap is 100, there's no way I'm going through the grind to level up my characters. If I wanted that, I'd play WoW.

I disagree Id rather have a cap of 100, I d rather focus on one character and actually have character development

Lonesamurai · May 08, 2007, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by milias

Personally, I wouldn't buy GW2 if there isn't a level cap. I like the current level cap at 20, because it's casual player friendly. If the level cap is 100, there's no way I'm going through the grind to level up my characters. If I wanted that, I'd play WoW.

No flame intended, but as usual Milias, you haven't taken on board any of the good things that all the interviews and information about the supposed lack of or high lvl cap...

remember one small thing... IT MEANS NOTHING!

Just as with GW1, its gonna mean nothing and it'll only be a number for those that like high numbers and won't make any difference tot he game for your average joe player... you'll be able to do everything he can, you'll be able to go anywhere he does, you'll be able to party with anyone you want to...

Anyway, please feel free to pay for WoW whilst I'm playing GW2 and buying beer and pizza with the £8 a month your spending to play it

cce · May 08, 2007, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

remember one small thing... IT MEANS NOTHING!

if the level will "mean nothing" ... then why have it at all?

What I hear is grind; grind that prevents your casual player from entering particular areas in one way or another, or prevents them from using particular skills, or prevents them from doing things that the players that _have_ grided for hours and hours on end can do.
It's about making the game unfun.

Onarik Amrak · May 08, 2007, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by cce

if the level will "mean nothing" ... then why have it at all?

What I hear is grind; grind that prevents your casual player from entering particular areas in one way or another, or prevents them from using particular skills, or prevents them from doing things that the players that _have_ grided for hours and hours on end can do.
It's about making the game unfun.

People like numbers. One of the most common questions I hear is "Why is the level cap 20?"

By providing a higher cap, that problem is solved... for the most part.

Cjlr · May 09, 2007, 02:03 AM // 02:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onarik Amrak

People like numbers. One of the most common questions I hear is "Why is the level cap 20?"

By providing a higher cap, that problem is solved... for the most part.

It's true that the level cap means (almost) nothing.

But big numbers mean everything to a lot of people. Or else, they wouldn't have it go to eleven, where ten would suffice.

Tactical-Dillusions · May 09, 2007, 02:20 AM // 02:20

I need links to info about GW2.

Celestial_Kitsune · May 09, 2007, 03:02 AM // 03:02

I don't even care if GW2 won't have a level cap at all as long as there will be a cap on attributes. However, it looks like anet is not planning to cap attributes at all - the plan is to flatten the curve instead:

Quote:

At the same time, we're flattening the power curve, so the difference between a level 50 and a level 100 character would be much bigger than between a level 100 and 150 char. This increases freedom in character development without making Max-Lvl-Characters too strong.

Imagine what would be the difference between L20 and L100 character then... This does not increase freedom in development - it increases the grind.

Characters should stop gaining attribute points at a reasonably low level (L20), otherwise L100 will be much better than L20 character just because of the time spent on grind instead of difference in skill.

However, let's estimate how long it would take to reach such levels.

Given 140,600 xp is L20 and you gain additional level every 15K points you need:

L50 = 140,600 xp + 30 levels x 15,000 xp = 590,600 xp
L100 = 140,600 xp + 80 levels x 15,000 xp = 1,340,600 xp
L150 = 140,600 xp + 130 levels x 15,000 xp = 2,090,600 xp

These number don't look too bad. Probably, most of you would have achieved L100 relatively quickly if there was no level cap in GW1. However, I still think there should be a cap on attributes.

Lonesamurai · May 09, 2007, 05:42 AM // 05:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by cce

if the level will "mean nothing" ... then why have it at all?

What I hear is grind; grind that prevents your casual player from entering particular areas in one way or another, or prevents them from using particular skills, or prevents them from doing things that the players that _have_ grided for hours and hours on end can do.
It's about making the game unfun.

Ok, right now we still get that "ping" when we hit the 15,000 exp mark on our current characters, the only difference in GW2 would be that the lvl number would go up one more aswell...

this is both the subtle beauty and massive downfall of GW1 in a single package and its just a way of thought that makes a person think that the low level cap is the greatest thing GW1 did, or the worst...

I have never been bothered about a persons lvl in GW as it can be raised so quickly and easily, the only thing being when i party with a low level person, especially if they aren't in a guild, i just asked if they are new to the game... It hasn't meant anything since release 2 years ago and it'll more near to nothing in GW2 especially with the side kick system in place

People also forget that the idea behind GW1 was to make a competitive team based pvp game (I know thats kinda out the window, but you know what i mean) and all my WoW playing friends don't understand this and still, after 2 years, compare the two games where we, being more enlightened, know that GW isn't even an MMO

So yeah, lvl will mean nothing in GW2, just as it means nothing in GW1, so whatever the lvl cap is, or isn't as the case maybe if they head for the infinite number possibility... All it will do is bring in those MMO players that need that big number to prove something to themselves

druggedchimp · May 09, 2007, 06:37 AM // 06:37

I almost feel that I'm jumping into someone else's conversation, but here I go...

A-Net is brilliant to say the least, so casual players like myself shouldn't fear the outcome of GW2. Sure, there will be a bit more of a grind, but thanks to the... responsive nature of the community, no worries.

A larger issue is the discrimination that WILL occur. No matter what way you put it, an increase in the level cap will bring out the worst in the people with too much time on their hands.
This is already prevalent in GW1... even with the balance.

In the end, we're mostly powerless to affect what A-Net will make for us. Sit back and wait a dozen months or so. Then we'll see.

Lonesamurai · May 09, 2007, 06:48 AM // 06:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by druggedchimp

I almost feel that I'm jumping into someone else's conversation, but here I go...

A-Net is brilliant to say the least, so casual players like myself shouldn't fear the outcome of GW2. Sure, there will be a bit more of a grind, but thanks to the... responsive nature of the community, no worries.

A larger issue is the discrimination that WILL occur. No matter what way you put it, an increase in the level cap will bring out the worst in the people with too much time on their hands.
This is already prevalent in GW1... even with the balance.

In the end, we're mostly powerless to affect what A-Net will make for us. Sit back and wait a dozen months or so. Then we'll see.

there is a simple fix to this that a lot of you guys here at guru forget...

THE GAMES CALLED GUILD WARS AND IF YOUR OWN GUILD DISCRIMINATES ABOUT LVL, WHY ARE YOU IN THE GUILD?!?!?!

Mylon · May 09, 2007, 07:13 AM // 07:13

Has the OP played Guild Wars in normal mode? If he has, then I'm sure he would know that a level 10 character can still pwn a level 20 character if he has a better skill set. I presume that in an unlimited level environment with a similar system, a level 100 will not be twice as powerful as level 50s. A level 100 whammo monk would still get pwned by degen and kiting, plus maybe an occasional interrupt for that annoying heal sig.

Hyper.nl · May 09, 2007, 07:22 AM // 07:22

I would like to have more focus on levelling and items. My opinion is that the current GuildWars focusses too much on skills/builds. In GW1 players can have millions of XP without getting anything useful for it. I hope GW2 changes that.

NinjaKai · May 09, 2007, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper22

Not for a casual player

This is my biggest problem with leveling. It is not possible for casual players to reach high levels with ease.
The only time I play games where I need to level are Final Fantasy.
As a casual gamer I play Guild Wars to have fun. Not waste time leveling a character. Honestly, i'll put the time in to level a character to 20 because it's easy enough. After that I can have fun with that character.
But when it's a constant level up, really where is the fun in that. By all means if the world is expansive enough to a point where I am not forced to level up to stand a chance against monsters in a certain area fine. But if I have no other option to do that, then it becomes a grind because no one likes needless grinding.
After reading the PC Gamer article there are just so many hypocratic things in it that are pitifully funny.

If I do choose to play GW 2 I shall simply buy the cheapest version of guild wars possible and upgrade it. Since as far as I can tell the hall of monuments means jack all to a casual player.

Lonesamurai · May 09, 2007, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by NinjaKai

This is my biggest problem with leveling. It is not possible for casual players to reach high levels with ease.
The only time I play games where I need to level are Final Fantasy.
As a casual gamer I play Guild Wars to have fun. Not waste time leveling a character. Honestly, i'll put the time in to level a character to 20 because it's easy enough. After that I can have fun with that character.
But when it's a constant level up, really where is the fun in that. By all means if the world is expansive enough to a point where I am not forced to level up to stand a chance against monsters in a certain area fine. But if I have no other option to do that, then it becomes a grind because no one likes needless grinding.
After reading the PC Gamer article there are just so many hypocratic things in it that are pitifully funny.

If I do choose to play GW 2 I shall simply buy the cheapest version of guild wars possible and upgrade it. Since as far as I can tell the hall of monuments means jack all to a casual player.

Are none of you reading anything they've written? or does a high number really freak you out that much?

As i said before, Your lvl is not connected to pvp, its been stated that lvl's won't affect playing the PvE and if your doing a high end dungeon or whatever, you can party with someone of a higher lvl for the lvl boost, so its no biggie...

Just forget about the lvl's, whatever they end up being, they still mean nothing

MagicWarrior · May 09, 2007, 03:45 PM // 15:45

I actually like the idea of a high level cap. I'm assuming ANET will have the progression well controlled so that high level characters won't have too much of an advantage gameplay-wise over low level characters. For instance... if higher levels provided rewards such as special visual armor and weapon modifications, etc. Doesn't affect gameplay at all... but rewards people for time spent in game. Anyways... whatever it is... I'm willing to put a little faith in ANET for now until I actually see them prove otherwise.

tivaan stormbringer · May 09, 2007, 05:42 PM // 17:42

I dont have any problems with lvl caps or any thing of that nature. My question is:

What will happen to GW1, once GW2 gets going?
They have stated they will continue supporting it but will new content continue to be added in the future?
And if they do continue to add, Why get GW2 after all the time invested in GW1? And if we do get GW2, who the hell has time to level to 100 if you want to keep GW1 characters active?

I wish they would port GW1 characters to GW2 in a future upgrade.

Darksun · May 09, 2007, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Domino

The "sidekick system" that they've described seems fundamentally flawed... just boosting someone's stats to match the group doesn't make him or her a better teammate.

I don't think the point is to make you a better teammate, it's to make things fair. There will always be max level GW players with lots of skills, max armor & weapons who simply aren't good at the game.