Curse

Galahad · May 12, 2007, 09:28 AM // 09:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

According to whom? There are builds where recharge is irrelevant (zzz MoR) where you can go martial/focus for +60hp and energy.

Erm swords and axes and spears are designed to be used to hit things.
+5 energy weapons are better over others for hitting thing when you have low energy, one reason you might have low energy is you are holding a shield in the other hand.

I'm not saying for one second that they are not useful or cannot be used in other builds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Why does this matter? 2 dps, trapper interrupts...?

Being able to target for heroes and henchies easily, why is a sword or axe preferable?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

There is no single superior weapon set.

Erm true that is what I was pointing out by saying the spear had one advantage and the staff another, but they were small differences.

Yichi · May 12, 2007, 09:37 AM // 09:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galahad

+5 martial weapons are designed to be used with a shield in the other hand not a focus.

Umm no... a +5 sword,axe,spear can be used with whatever you chose to run them with. they are great for running +60 health (sword with a +30 and offhand with +30) and still getting a +5 unconditional energy and a skill recharge. but yes they do come in handy with a shield, but thats not all that you run them with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galahad

Just to state the obvious if you want to use one as 1/2 of a caster set, choose a spear and then you can still hit things from range.

Your main focus should be about your spells as a caster, not worrying about hitting things from close or afar with your wand, spear, or sword. A caster should never be using a weapon or wand for the damage out of it. A caster should use the weapon or spear for the mods. IF and thats a big IF, you do meet the reqs for damage, thats not your concern as a caster anyway.

-Loki- · May 12, 2007, 10:37 AM // 10:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galahad

Being able to target for heroes and henchies easily, why is a sword or axe preferable?

ctrl + shift + space. You target the enemy, but stand still. Heroes and henchmen will go after them without you moving from your spot.

Luna Star · May 12, 2007, 10:44 AM // 10:44

zealous spear for energy..../sarcasm

Cass · May 13, 2007, 09:32 AM // 09:32

I do find it odd that 2 or 3 out of 4 of my pre-set caster sets are at least partially martial weapons (spear, axe, sword and/or shield). I guess it works out like this, but it is not very elegant. Why could a wand not have 20% enchanting or +30hp? Even for a focus one could argue that it could have +8 armor, so that you could wield one instead of a shield. Of course, that's a big bonus with the +12 energy so perhaps that's not feasible. Maybe +8 armor instead of energy? Just so a caster can wield caster weapons.

On the same note: Why are staffs so inferior still?

By the way, when the green wands from Sorrows had +3 over 50%, there were gold wands with +5^50 too. But getting a dual-mod gold wand that was perfect was really hard. The green with 3 energy and another mod was a reasonable alternative then.

Ensign · May 13, 2007, 09:14 PM // 21:14

The short answer is that they did not intend to put +5 energy or other caster mods on physical weapons. They slipped through on a few special items that were overlooked right before release (the Fiery Flame Spitter, HoD items in general), and were caught after too many had been made. When deciding what to do, the designers concluded that casters using some martial weapons was good for interesting itemization, so most of them remained.

Arena.net did not intend to put unconditional energy on wands...probably because of some desire to not have 'must have' mods on any particular weapon. I can't comment on how good of a decision that was at the time, but after all the other changes to caster itemization, and a general devaluing of +energy mods by better caster players has left those conditional energy mods at the bottom of the heap.

One fun bit of irony is that the characters that get the most use out of staves are non-casters, because they have the +10 energy unconditional mod (unlike focii which need an attribute spec). The only time you really see casters on a high level using staves is when they really want double cast time mods - because, under the new inscription system, you can't get that with a focus anymore.

Peace,
-CxE

HawkofStorms · May 13, 2007, 10:16 PM // 22:16

^^Ensign wins.
+5 energy martial weapons were NEVER itended to be in the game. They were in the HoD swords at launch and the crafter was quickly removed from the game. However, a.net couldn't get rid of the +5 energy HoD swords that were out there already and they became very expensive and useful items. Rather then give a few super rich players a control of the market of a furbar item, a.net just added that mod into the game with the release of factions.

RoadKill97 · May 13, 2007, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

The only time you really see casters on a high level using staves is when they really want double cast time mods - because, under the new inscription system, you can't get that with a focus anymore.

Without losing +30 health, that is.

Kuldebar Valiturus · May 13, 2007, 11:36 PM // 23:36

1.) I am fairly certain that martial weapons with energy and recharge bonuses were generally designed with lower energy endowed professions in mind: Warrior, Paragon, etc.

2.) I think "better" is too strong a word to use when comparing martial weapons to caster weapons. Martial weapons have far less variety when it comes to energy bonuses and also tend to have far lesser amount of energy gains.

Seef II · May 13, 2007, 11:48 PM // 23:48

Point is, +5^50, while enchanted, or whatever are pretty much moot - you won't have the energy when you need it. Why go for conditional energy over unconditional energy?

icymanipulator · May 13, 2007, 11:51 PM // 23:51

I dropped an almost max gold Rit channeling req 11 Forbidden Staff in Raisu Palace just the other day. It had a +5e unconditional as well as +19% enchant. I think the mods are out there for caster weapons just unusual. If you meant a wand/focus rather than a Staff I can't help ya. There is always Rajazan's Fervor though...plus it looks awesome.

Scutilla · May 14, 2007, 12:26 AM // 00:26

A single +5 energy mod may be better than a wand's +5>50 mod, but overall wands are more conducive to casters. Let's look at the numbers:

Spear + Focus combo

+17 Energy
(useless prefix)
Enchanting 20%
HCT 20% (single attribute)
HSR 20% (single attribute)

Wand + Focus combo

+17 Energy while above 50%, +12 while below
HCT 20% (single attribute)
HSR 20% (single attribute)
HSR 20% (single attribute)

Staff

+15 Energy
Enchanting 20% (or other staff wrapping of choice)
HCT 20% (single attribute)
HSR 20% (all spells)

No real-cut winner. Spears have more energy than wands while under 50% (assuming the wand has a +5>50 mod, other +energy options are available), but you're stuck with an Enchanting suffix on a spear, which isn't useful in all situations. Staves have less energy but an overall better set of mods, plus the inherent HSR 20% for all spells (which is impossible to get on wands or martial weapons).

Quote:

Originally Posted by icymanipulator

I dropped an almost max gold Rit channeling req 11 Forbidden Staff in Raisu Palace just the other day. It had a +5e unconditional as well as +19% enchant. I think the mods are out there for caster weapons just unusual. If you meant a wand/focus rather than a Staff I can't help ya. There is always Rajazan's Fervor though...plus it looks awesome.

They're referring to +5 energy for wands, not staves.

Skyy High · May 14, 2007, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by icymanipulator

I dropped an almost max gold Rit channeling req 11 Forbidden Staff in Raisu Palace just the other day. It had a +5e unconditional as well as +19% enchant. I think the mods are out there for caster weapons just unusual. If you meant a wand/focus rather than a Staff I can't help ya. There is always Rajazan's Fervor though...plus it looks awesome.

Insightful staff heads aren't exactly unusual. Like Scutilla said, they're talking about +5 unconditional for wands.

icymanipulator · May 14, 2007, 01:02 AM // 01:02

After prefacing my own statement was it really worth either of your times to "correct" me

this board is nothing if not amusing. Anyways...as its been said earlier and I will echo. If you want this particular combo its obvious (to me at least) you are planning on doing some invinci-soloing of some sort. Get the Rajazan's Fervor or the Totem Axe with the Cities of Ascalon -50hp cesta and go to town. The whole premise behind having the martial weapon in this case is to put you in range of the boss usually for a touch skill vamp (in the case of boss farm necro) or silver with monk.

Shmanka · May 14, 2007, 01:32 AM // 01:32

I use a wand still... I just like the HSR and the wanding damage... I don't care who says what wands add damage, and sometimes just enough to finish targets.

mlandry · May 14, 2007, 04:53 AM // 04:53

If they were to add +5energy mods to wands, they would also need to add the +armor/-energy mod for shields that only focii have; I wish I could have 20+ armor shields + that 13 str requirement armor and a weapon with +5 defense... now that would be HIGH defense at all time heh

On topic : Like everyone said, it would be too good to have +5energy on wands and would make casters that much slightly better

fenix · May 14, 2007, 06:04 AM // 06:04

They added the +5's on Martial weapons so that the HoD sword prices would drop. Now that they are common, adding +5 to wands would be nice, but there would be no difference between using a Martial weapon or a wand. So it isn't really needed, as wands are used for 1 purpose, and Martial weapons for another.

SotiCoto · May 14, 2007, 11:11 AM // 11:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

The only time you really see casters on a high level using staves is when they really want double cast time mods - because, under the new inscription system, you can't get that with a focus anymore.

Don't suppose you ever heard of a little place called Vasburg Armory... Factions outpost, Kurzick side? -_-;
Wands and Foci... each with 20% faster cast and recharge of specific spell type...
Plus of course the Foci can be gained in that form as collector weapons, even if the wands themselves cannot.

Why the heck bother with inscriptions?
I'm in the rather expensive process of kitting out all my spellcaster heroes on all my characters with 20/20 Wands. At least it is easier than trying to mod up staves or collect greens / golds for them. (There are only so many times I'm willing to farm the Scar Eater or Stoneweaver before I get sick of doing it)...

Avarre · May 14, 2007, 11:14 AM // 11:14

Ensign most likely was referring to PvP characters, which have notorious trouble reaching Vasburg Armory.

makosi · May 14, 2007, 11:28 AM // 11:28

As good as a caster looks with a sword, I've never been a fan of martial weapons on them. The best use of martial weaponry for a caster is for energy hiding.

If you use an Insightful Staff you have a net increase of 15 energy. A +5 energy sword + +12 energy Focus Item gives *gasp* another two energy. Yes, you could have the +60 health set which is a bonus but, personally, the 20% universal recharge seems superior to me.

From that last sentence it is fair to conclude that it's entirely up to personal preference.

I remember the days crying about of the HoD and people paying a fortune for them. Good times.