Curse

Jagflame · May 15, 2006, 11:34 PM // 23:34

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but, i wouldnt trade them for any of it.

I am in a similar situation. I am in a small guild, and I would never trade that for access for a mission. That is my choice, that doesn't mean another choice is wrong.

But still on that note, I would like to mention that I am talking about an alliance, not a guild. A guild will be much more closely knit than the entire alliance will be, and a guild may only consist of 100 members.

Any player, at any time, can join an alliance that has a good shot at holding a city. In fact, many alliances such as TC actively recruit. If you want to get in an elite mission that terribly much, go join one. If you want to stay in your current guild and not gain access, that is your choice.

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Just to clear something up, by "earn" you mean grind through mindless quests/runs over, and over, and over again? All of which take no real skill.

Once again you are implying that I agree with the current system of the way to earn access. But it is still work, either way. Work does not imply skill. Most of the jobs most people would most hate to have to do are repetative and pretty much anyone can do them.

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you contradict yourself .. if faction points can be earned though PvP, then they do in fact affect PvE city control since thats what its based on.

It may be fast to your standards, but it is nowhere near as fast as running repeatable missions such as the supply run. Making it so alliance battles did not give faction would hardly affect most of the faction farming population.

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You've spent a bunch of your time doing things that you don't actually enjoy (read farming) just to gain supposed rewards.

Why do you make guesses on how I've spent my playing time? I do not farm faction whatsoever. I tried for about 20 minutes and was bored out of my mind. I chose not to farm because I'd rather not farm and thus not have access to the elite missions.

floplag · May 15, 2006, 11:42 PM // 23:42

but it does affect it, i didnt say to what degree, but it doies come into play.. making a PvP event affect PvE players.

and im sorry, but even a guild of 100 members loses the personal touch. ive been in gaming squads for some years now .. and been part of very large groups of 40-50.. i cant even imagine 100. the become names on a screen, little more.

justify it however you want, but the simple fact is that if all it takes is mindlessly repeating the same quests, over and over ad nauseum... skill is out the window for certain.. and all you have is the next generation of mindless grinding gameplay and someone is going to write a bot for it, if they havent already.

not to mention EBAYers buying up amber/jade and selling that for faction to save time

however you cut it, its quantity, not quality.. and thats sad to me

Jagflame · May 15, 2006, 11:51 PM // 23:51

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but it does affect it, i didnt say to what degree, but it doies come into play.. making a PvP event affect PvE players.

Take the luxon/kurzick faction out of alliance battles and the faction market would hardly be affected, I fail to see how that is so hard to grasp.

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and im sorry, but even a guild of 100 members loses the personal touch. ive been in gaming squads for some years now .. and been part of very large groups of 40-50.. i cant even imagine 100. the become names on a screen, little more.

This comes merely down to personal opinion. I myself agree with you on this matter, I would rather have 20-30 good friends than 100 strangers any day. This doesn't mean that people that choose the 100 are wrong, they are just sacrificing the personal touch for higher gaming opportunity because that is what they prefer.

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not to mention EBAYers buying up amber/jade and selling that for faction to save time

I'm not sure where you got this from, but you can't buy faction unless you are having people join, deposit, and then leave. The only alliance I have heard actively doing this is TC, although those are donations and not bought.

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justify it however you want, but the simple fact is that if all it takes is mindlessly repeating the same quests, over and over ad nauseum... skill is out the window for certain.. and all you have is the next generation of mindless grinding gameplay and someone is going to write a bot for it, if they havent already.

When did I try to justify it? I have already stated that I agree it takes no skill and that the method of earning access should be changed.

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however you cut it, its quantity, not quality.. and thats sad to me

Then choose quality... I don't see what you're upset about.

floplag · May 15, 2006, 11:58 PM // 23:58

it isnt hard to grasp, thats not my point, my point is that it does in fact affect it, no matter how small the amount.. though i think your uinderestimating the amout.. either way your statement that it doesnt affect it was not in fact corrent. that was my point, not the amount.

money can be used to buy jade or amber .. and its my understanding that this can be turned in for faction. if this is incorrect then thats my mistake.. if correct it means faction can in fact be bought

as to what im upset about, simple ... i cannot now, nor have any realsitic expectation of EVER accessing these areas of the map, without relying on the kindless of someone else .. even though we payed the same price for the game .. i fail to see hopw THAT is so hard to grasp

i dont mean to flame, i really dont .. and it isnt my inrtention to create arguements .. but i just dont understand how this can in any way be considered fair to all players. if you disagree, fine, your entitled to that, and well agree to disagree... but to me, it just dioesnt make sense that i have to accept the fact that there are the best parts of this map, with the best drops... and ill never see it

UndeadRoadkill · May 16, 2006, 12:07 AM // 00:07

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Originally Posted by Jagflame

Well, I disagree with having to farm to get also, but that doesn't mean everyone should have free access.

I just think the system was so wrong to begin with, what's one more thing that's out of place?

As it is now, it doesn't distinguish between great players or lousy ones, between those who have accomplished great things and those who are farm drones. Considering that, is it such a big deal to bring someone who's not in the alliance?

If the system is a failure anyway, I'd rather that it err on the side of being overly-accessable than being overly restrictive.

Jagflame · May 16, 2006, 12:09 AM // 00:09

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money can be used to buy jade or amber .. and its my understanding that this can be turned in for faction. if this is incorrect then thats my mistake.. if correct it means faction can in fact be bought

Yes, this is incorrect. Jade and amber cannot be exchanged for faction.

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as to what im upset about, simple ... i cannot now, nor have any realsitic expectation of EVER accessing these areas of the map, without relying on the kindless of someone else .. even though we payed the same price for the game .. i fail to see hopw THAT is so hard to grasp

It is hard to grasp because it is incorrect. I have already mentioned that it would be extremely easy to join an alliance that has a good chance for controlling Cavalon. If you don't want to leave your current guild that is perfectly understandable, that is the same choice I made, it's just that in exchange for the personal touch you lose access to things that value large alliances such as elite missions. The elite missions are not that great of a sacrifice, believe me.

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ut to me, it just dioesnt make sense that i have to accept the fact that there are the best parts of this map, with the best drops... and ill never see it

Them being the best part is something that is up to your personal opinion. If you truely think that they are more valuable than anything else in the game I suggest leaving your guild and joining an alliance with like-minded individuals. It is very easy to do so for any person.

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As it is now, it doesn't distinguish between great players or lousy ones, between those who have accomplished great things and those who are farm drones. Considering that, is it such a big deal to bring someone who's not in the alliance?

This is true, but it is inargueable that the farmers are dedicated, and dedication should be rewarded. This does not make the faction system right, but it is a minor point.

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If the system is a failure anyway, I'd rather that it err on the side of being overly-accessable than being overly restrictive.

Perhaps, but this is another matter of opinion. However, I am not argueing whether or not it is currently overly restrictive, I am merely argueing against the opinion that it should be accessable to all, which seems to be the majority's opinion in this thread.

And more out of context: I have been recieving unintelligent flames ingame and I would like it to stop. I debate for the fun of it, and I do not appreciate immature arguements such as calling me a "bkbd fanboi" or "bkbd lover" or any of the other idiotic comments I have gotten. If you would like to state a valid arguement, that is fine, but stay away from this senseless flaming. I would also much rather be addressed on this forum than during a mission.

floplag · May 16, 2006, 12:14 AM // 00:14

if my understanding of that point is incorrect, thank you for pointing that out

in thoery, your posistion sounds viable.. but with allainces already over 9 million factions and no sign of slowing... unless there happens to be room in one of the biggest, where can i realistically expect this to happen ? how many allainces even have half that amount of faction ?

they may not be a great sacrifice on quality of mission, ill grant you that, but factor in the fact that some of the best and most expensive items drop there... and the advantage becomes crystal clear

as said ,i suggest we agree to disgaree ... best of luck in game

Jagflame · May 16, 2006, 12:22 AM // 00:22

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in thoery, your posistion sounds viable.. but with allainces already over 9 million factions and no sign of slowing... unless there happens to be room in one of the biggest, where can i realistically expect this to happen ? how many allainces even have half that amount of faction ?

I know for a fact that TC regularly recruits from the public, and they are not far behind BkBd currently. Also, if you join an alliance with 500+ members in it then it should not be hard to catch up. It only takes 100 members getting 10k faction to gain 1 million faction. As many farmers will tell you, a single player can easily earn 10k faction in less than an hour.

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but factor in the fact that some of the best and most expensive items drop there... and the advantage becomes crystal clear

No it doesn't. If there's one thing I like about Guild Wars, it's that weapon skins do not affect a player's ability. A collector's item is obtainable for pretty much free and has max damage and mods. Money is also not needed; 1.5k armor skins and runes can be bought through money obtained through normal gameplay. Having large amounts of money gives very little advantage except bragging rights.

UndeadRoadkill · May 16, 2006, 12:29 AM // 00:29

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Originally Posted by Jagflame

Perhaps, but this is another matter of opinion. However, I am not argueing whether or not it is currently overly restrictive, I am merely argueing against the opinion that it should be accessable to all, which seems to be the majority's opinion in this thread.

Bear with me, today was my day off, and I've been kind of sick and hungover all day, and I may be getting different threads mixed up.

Does 'accessable by all' in this case mean walking in at any time, or does it mean 'accessable by anyone any time who accomplishes something to earn access?'

I have no problem with doing something difficult to earn access, but I'm very opposed to the 'accessable by only one group of people at a time' idea. I like to play cooperatively with a few close friends, I hate the idea of what I can and can't do in-game controlled by some strangers.

Ah, I'd better go lie down.

Jagflame · May 16, 2006, 12:52 AM // 00:52

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Does 'accessable by all' in this case mean walking in at any time, or does it mean 'accessable by anyone any time who accomplishes something to earn access?'

In this case it means walking in at any time, for this is what TC are promoting and it is what I am standing against. "Accessable by anyone any time who accomplishes something to earn access" is how I am saying it should be.

Gaile Gray · May 16, 2006, 02:07 AM // 02:07

Hey, all,

Just a word that we hear you, and are currently working on solutions to this concern. I don't have specifics yet -- the design team is meeting to discuss various options and you know how super-secretive they are!

But there will be an alternative means for players to access Elite Missions.

Do remember the devs will devise, discuss, and then test this new means of access. They'll amend, if necessary, or roll out if all is found to be good to go. Basically, nothing is easy, or simple, when you want to do it right. So give us a month or two to finalize this system, and we'll share more with you as it becomes available!

Thanks for your thoughts. To those of you who expressed your concerns so constructively and with such support, an extra-special thanks!

Jagflame · May 16, 2006, 02:17 AM // 02:17

Thanks for the response Gaile.

I just hope you can find a way to incorporate the small alliances and casual players into elite missions while still making it hard to access and maintaining emphasis on cooperation between players in an alliance.

WasAGuest · May 16, 2006, 02:46 AM // 02:46

Here's hoping something dumb isn't opted in like:

Paying faction points to get in (yet more faction farming needed);
Paying cash to get in (more farming needed);

Let's hope that access is given, say, after beating Shiro or somthing else (like a new quest for access).

Jagflame · May 16, 2006, 03:02 AM // 03:02

WasAGuest, I was actually hoping that it would be a reward for something alliance or guild related. You wouldn't run the elite mission by yourself would you?

GloryFox · May 16, 2006, 05:34 AM // 05:34

THANK YOU GAILE!

You and the Anet team get a big hug from the GW community.

/salute

Arwen Granger · May 16, 2006, 05:48 AM // 05:48

Anet and Gaile, thanks for looking at this problem. However, a month or two is way too long for people to wait.

We want a solution YESTERDAY - we are customers and we demand it right now!

draxynnic · May 16, 2006, 05:49 AM // 05:49

Wee-ee-elll...

One way to do it could be to make the elite mission for a side be available for the owners of any town from that side - or at least the more important ones - rather than just the capital. That way you only need one of the prominant alliances for a faction to let people in rather than giving a monopoly to the owners of the capital - if one alliance offers an unreasonable entry price or simply doesn't allow entry at all, players would be able to go to the competition.

sinisters chaos · May 16, 2006, 06:02 AM // 06:02

lol arwen.... patience please, Anet did not think so many people would be offended by the "skill" it takes to access these mission *cough farm *cough
BUT, now that our voices have been heard they are responding, and making all this happen isnt easy, i take computer programming in 9th grade.. and the simplest shit is so hard lol

Kariston The Swift · May 16, 2006, 06:07 AM // 06:07

I just hope that this new way into the Elite mission requires some kind of skill instead of farming or getting in with no type of challege. My personal solution is to make a really hard mission that you have to beat to get into the Elite mission or quest.

TideSwayer · May 16, 2006, 06:08 AM // 06:08

The easiest way to open up access to the elite missions is to allow access to the respective faction's elite from more than just one town. Pick a few towns on each side that alliances can fight over for elite mission access, instead of just one per. Not only does this open up elite mission access a bit, but it also adds incentive for more towns to be fought over, as right now only the capitals are really being sought after.

To keep the capital as the primary place of desired ownership, however, there might have to be extra reward added, such as open gates for all controlling alliance members or something. Just a thought.