Curse

KANE OG · May 09, 2007, 12:01 AM // 00:01

A new build of Guild Wars is available. Please exit the program.

Update: Fixed a bug that prevented loot from dropping in Hard Mode.

Remember the ecto drop screwup? The double scroll drop weekend screwup? Maybe one day they'll admit that they did just that... screwed it up.

KANE

More Outrage · May 09, 2007, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Nothing mysterious, just looks like the code that turns the buried/hidden treasure chests drops in action here. Always golds first couple of times then lots of purples untill purples is all you gonna get. Always been that way, not part of the regular anti farming code.

At least white items such as non elite tomes and rubies/sapphire/diamonds still drop as normal (not sure about ectos/shards though) otherwise there would be no point in farming, for me at least.

manitoba1073 · May 09, 2007, 04:46 AM // 04:46

You guys are also forgetting that they lied to us about the anti-farm code from the start of the game.

Cassandra · May 09, 2007, 07:55 AM // 07:55

and no word regarding the kill-all-at-the-same-time drop reducing code, lol

Spazzer · May 09, 2007, 10:09 AM // 10:09

Had a very interesting thing happen to me recently. In 25 locked chests, 21 of them were purples. It really put a slight damper on my mood, but I only managed to lose 10k on the day as a whole.

Other than that, the actual monster drops seemed fine.

wilebill · May 09, 2007, 12:31 PM // 12:31

Yeah, when Prophecies came out, when Factions came out, same thing. Lots of good quality loot. But then the quality of the loot declines.

HM, depends on area maybe. But I too have done areas where you get more and better loot in Normal than in HM.

Few nights ago, went out with a player group to do Domain of Pain in Hard Mode. Cleaned most of the map. Couple people got good drops, but I think I got back with about five white and blue items plus one trash gold from a locked chest and a purple worthless item. Vendored it all, still nearly 1K down from buying the lockpick.

SotiCoto · May 09, 2007, 01:08 PM // 13:08

You should realise, folks, that A-Net never said they removed the Anti-Farming code... persay.

What they essentially said was that repeatedly zoning in and out of an area won't influence drop-rates. That doesn't mean anything as regards killing the same enemies over and over.... or indeed killing enemies solo at all.
It definitely does not mean by any stretch of the imagination that there is no anti-farming code; just that if you happen to step in and out repeatedly between an outpost and explorable area... that it won't influence the drop-rates as an independant action.

The anti-farming code is still there.... I'm fairly sure of that.

Cassandra · May 09, 2007, 01:22 PM // 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

You should realise, folks, that A-Net never said they removed the Anti-Farming code... persay.

The anti-farming code is still there.... I'm fairly sure of that.

Well I think you're absolutely right; I made a test through continuosly farming the same area (the same 22 mobs) for 6 hours, after having a 2-days long break to "reset" any code:

First runs: 2 golds per run; then, steadily decreasing quality of the drops, till the end when 1 purple every 3-4 runs -__-

And.... Anet never said they removed anti-farm... only if you don't count the Dev Update on Loot, and Gaile's posts in this thread :P

However: 1/8 loot AND anti-farm plain sucks

Sir Kilgore · May 09, 2007, 01:39 PM // 13:39

No, Anet didn't say they removed anti-farming code per se. Here's what they did say:

From the Guild Wars official website updates page:

Quote:

Update - Friday April 20

Loot Changes
Adjusted the following items so that they are now exempt from loot scaling:
Skill Tomes
Scrolls
Dye
Rare materials, such as Ectoplasm
Gemstones from the Domain of Anguish
All other rare (gold) items
All unique (green) items
Special event items

Miscellaneous
Henchmen that were previously sub-level 20 before entering Hard Mode now have appropriate armor and weapon damage for their level.
Added the Warrior's 15k Knight's Armor set to the crafter in Marhan's Grotto.

Update - Thursday April 19

*snip*

Miscellaneous
The price of keys that previously cost 1,500 gold have been reduced to 1,250 gold.
The first-person camera has been adjusted to allow players to more easily play in first-person mode. Scrolling with the mouse wheel still allows you to leave first-person mode, however, you must now scroll a little more than before.
Loot now scales according to party size.
Repeated map entry no longer reduces loot.
Made preparations for the Double Sunspear Points and Double Lightbringer Points weekend event.
Removed the Wintersday 2006 Championship Trophy.
Added the Celestial Tournament 2007 Championship Trophy.
The Xunlai Tournament House NPC has returned to the Great Temple of Balthazar, Lion’s Arch, Kaineng Center, and Kamadan to reward players with their Celestial Tournament prizes.

*Bold added for easy identification of the topic in discussion*

Now there's many different ways we could interpret this:

1) Repeated map entry doesn't reduce the loot, but repeatedly killing the critters on the map does (of course in a game where the focus is on killing critters that would be silly),

2) The number of loot drops hasn't decreased, just the value,

3) There is a bug in the code or some latent anti-farming feature that is still unintentionally active despite their claim,

4) ANet just thinks we are making this up and chalks it up to "random rolls" despite what appears to be a clear trend for many players,

5) ANet lied to us in the first place, thinks we're stupid, and thought we wouldn't notice golds turning to purples and eventually to whites.

6) Despite claims of wanting everyone to enjoy the game in their own preferred manner, they really don't care about this issue at all.

I'm really hoping that it is option 3 and they are working on it. Any other option smacks of deceit or incompetence.

icymanipulator · May 09, 2007, 02:00 PM // 14:00

I posted this in a botting thread before it got closed but its relevant here so I'll tell the story again.

I was going for the legendary skill hunter this weekend through yesterday afternoon and had to do runs in Mineral Springs multiple times to get the Avicara elites. Its not my first time in MS I also have legendary cartographer so I am no stranger to the run. I figured while I was in there I'd do IDS sweeps in the northeastern cave. Not once ever in my nearly a year playing GW have I dropped a single IDS. The only thing constant was the massive volume of bots in Granite Citadel heading northbound. No this is not a bot flame mods...its about loot scale or anti-farm.

In comparison early yesterday morning I did a Sorrow's Furnace run top to bottom and wound up with half a dozen golds from chests and mobs as well as a Superior Vigor.

I could never prove it but it seems like there is an anti-farm code that scales loot depending on how many people are in a zone. Literally no one was in the war camp that early so I have to figure I had my pick of the drops in Sorrow's Furnace. By comparison I was extremely lucky to see a purple in Tasca's or Mineral Springs. I'd be curious if anyone else has had the same thing happen, or if this warrants further player testing.

yeah_hi · May 09, 2007, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by icymanipulator

I'd be curious if anyone else has had the same thing happen, or if this warrants further player testing.

I've never really farmed until HM, so haven't paid much attention to other farming discussions; apologies if I'm saying something that's been said a million times before:

I've been farming one area repeatedly (20 to 40 runs per day) for the last 5 days, and at first the outpost I start from was pretty much empty. The golds, elite tomes and rare materials flowed for the first three days. Since then I have noticed the outpost get busier and busier, and at the same time my drops have gone from 2-3 golds and locked chests per run, to one gold every 2 runs and one locked chest per run - if any at all. White drops have started to overflow my first bag now, where at first I'd barely half-fill it with them.

I wish we could be told either way - even if it's "yes there's definitely anti-farming code still, but we're not telling you what it is" - just so I can go and do something better with my time, rather than keep on in the hopes of it just being a run of bad luck!

lennymon · May 09, 2007, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by icymanipulator

I posted this in a botting thread before it got closed but its relevant here so I'll tell the story again.

I was going for the legendary skill hunter this weekend through yesterday afternoon and had to do runs in Mineral Springs multiple times to get the Avicara elites. Its not my first time in MS I also have legendary cartographer so I am no stranger to the run. I figured while I was in there I'd do IDS sweeps in the northeastern cave. Not once ever in my nearly a year playing GW have I dropped a single IDS. The only thing constant was the massive volume of bots in Granite Citadel heading northbound. No this is not a bot flame mods...its about loot scale or anti-farm.

In comparison early yesterday morning I did a Sorrow's Furnace run top to bottom and wound up with half a dozen golds from chests and mobs as well as a Superior Vigor.

I could never prove it but it seems like there is an anti-farm code that scales loot depending on how many people are in a zone. Literally no one was in the war camp that early so I have to figure I had my pick of the drops in Sorrow's Furnace. By comparison I was extremely lucky to see a purple in Tasca's or Mineral Springs. I'd be curious if anyone else has had the same thing happen, or if this warrants further player testing.

I don't think so, since GW is an instance driven game, the only # of people in the zone is a number between 1 and 8 with loot depending only on party size/heroes/henches/other 'real' human party menbers/and range. It's possible that there are other anti farm codes in effect other than killing the same few mobs in a zone repeatedly, Anet has flat out said 'Anti-farm has been removed from normal mode, and was never installed in hard mode' my take is, after that it's all luck. Anet also may have decided there were just too many golds flooding the market from solo HM farming and just tweaked the universal %yellow/%purple/%white rates down though in order to 'protect the economy'. All this aside, some runs I get 6-8 golds, some none... my bets on it's just blind dumb luck.

Sir Kilgore · May 10, 2007, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by lennymon

All this aside, some runs I get 6-8 golds, some none... my bets on it's just blind dumb luck.

If you think it's just blind dumb luck then I issue this challenge to you:

Pick 5 spots you can solo farm in HM. Do 20 runs in a row on each of those runs, preferrably back to back if you have the time. Keep track of exactly how many gold, purple, blue, and white drops you get in each run as well as the coin count and oddball stuff like dye or tomes.

Wait 3 days and then repeat the experiment. Post your results here. If you do this honestly I don't think you'll believe it's just blind dumb luck any more.

The reason many people on here don't believe it's luck is they have done things very similar to the challenge I issued to you. Luck can hold true for a small number of people a small percentage of the time, but if enough runs are logged you eventually kill the "random factor" and can see clear patterns emerge.

Cassandra · May 10, 2007, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

You should realise, folks, that A-Net never said they removed the Anti-Farming code... persay.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Kilgore

No, Anet didn't say they removed anti-farming code per se.

Uhmmmm, are you sure about that? :P
Here is what I read:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10146006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

the game no longer prevents players from repeatedly farming the same monsters over and over

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...98#post2792698

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

We removed the anti-faming code in normal mode. The code was never implemented in Hard Mode. So no, there is no anti-farming code in Hard Mode.

Red-Tide · May 10, 2007, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Farming is still messed up for me. Did 15 runs last night in HM (Zehlon & Spiders) and got 1 gold... STILL BROKEN!!!

Me and guildie vanquished Lathenda Bog yesterday (2 players + 6 heroes) and we killed 393 enemies. Guess how many gold drops we had. 1... and 3 grapes, the rest were white. I thought rare drops were increased in HM? Doesnt seem like it to me. You would think with the sheer numbers of enemies we destroyed (& 4 bosses) that more than one gold would drop.

Sir Kilgore · May 10, 2007, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cassandra

Uhmmmm, are you sure about that? :P
Here is what I read:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10146006

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...98#post2792698

As the subject of this thread indicates, this is about HM. They said they never implemented anti-farming code in HM, therefore they couldn't have removed it.

Nor does the game prevent people from repeatedly farming the same monsters over and over - technically speaking. You just will get less and less value from your farm runs, but you can keep doing it.

My main point of contention is that the clear impression from the ANet was that you wouldn't see loot degradation while repeatedly farming the same monsters, however that appears not to be the case.

Now, if you want to be "fanboy" about it, you could always argue that no "anti-farming" code was ever added to HM, but game-wide there's a feature which we'll call something other than "anti-farming" that has the effect of reducing loot drops after killing X amount of the same monster type. You might argue that it was put in place so that people get good loot the first time they come to an area with new monsters, but as the loot dries up it encourages them to move to another area of the game.

It doesn't really matter to me exactly how anyone wants to explain this phenomenon. What is clear to me is that when I haven't been in an area for several days the drops start out decent, but rapidly decrease in value - usually noticeable by the 2nd or 3rd time in the same area.

So while technically speaking it may not be "anti-farming" code and I'm not actually prevented from repeatedly killing monsters in the same zone, the effect is the same. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, swims like a duck, etc. then it is a duck.

This is either the way things were intended, and therefore extremely duplicitous on the part of ANet, or this is an unintended consequence of something else (i.e. a bug) that needs to be corrected. Either way for many of us it is definitely real and not merely some misinterpretation of randomness. I'm hoping it's just a bug and that's why many of us are trying to bring it to their attention.

berlioz7 · May 11, 2007, 05:24 AM // 05:24

Has anet made any kind of statement on HM drops yet?

ryanryanryan0310 · May 11, 2007, 07:57 AM // 07:57

They have a *ninja* farming code.......

My drops suck, i barely get 1 gold every 3-5 runs. I farm 5-10 different locations.

Kas · May 11, 2007, 09:12 AM // 09:12

You know what I think? They simply removed the message. Also don't get your hopes up high about another answer, this thread got its answer and while it being obviously misinformed, it is "the" answer.
But maybe it is just a use of words. Sort of like proclaiming nerfs as buffs for example. Maybe they call the widely percepted anti farming code not anti farming code but instead name it "Elisabeth". This way they can happily say that they don't have "Anti Farming code" and don't even lie about it. They however have "Elisabeth" that does the very same.

Firebaall · May 11, 2007, 09:18 AM // 09:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by berlioz7

Has anet made any kind of statement on HM drops yet?

Of course they haven't.

Anet and it's PR were caught with their pants down when they described and explained the nature of the drops in HM. At this point they won't say anything to avoid looking more foolish.

I personally think this is disgusting how they won't even interact with the community (especially considering the amount of attention this has gotten). They would rather leave us twisting in the wind than step up and do the responsible thing.

At this point, I'm in the: "fine, it is, what it is" camp. If Anet rather ingore customer support, I won't support their product anymore.

Don't get me wrong. I will still play. However, being a customer that has two accounts, with full CE editions on both, and 24 character slots (read: paid extra $$$ directly to their company via the online store, GOTY upgrades, etc, etc).....I will not be buying any more of their products.

I'll let their "support" make conga lines, debate what 2nd year present to give out, etc until they are blue in the face. You know, take care of the important things....