Curse

Caoimhe · Jun 03, 2007, 05:01 PM // 17:01

This thread should stickied, and framed, and required reading for everyone who plays GW, simply because of the overwhelming hubris diplayed herein.

Quit playing. Just quit. Don't like changes? Leave. Leave the game to those of us who appreciate the effort, even when there are times when it seems the effort is going a direction opposite to what we might wish.

Call us fanbois, ANet lovers, whatever gets you through the night. I just don't care. All I know is that there seems to be a lot of people who feel like ANet hates them individually, and makes changes for that reason alone. Trust me, folks, it isn't all about you.

Theus · Jun 03, 2007, 06:06 PM // 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caoimhe

This thread should stickied, and framed, and required reading for everyone who plays GW, simply because of the overwhelming hubris diplayed herein.

Quit playing. Just quit. Don't like changes? Leave. Leave the game to those of us who appreciate the effort, even when there are times when it seems the effort is going a direction opposite to what we might wish.

Call us fanbois, ANet lovers, whatever gets you through the night. I just don't care. All I know is that there seems to be a lot of people who feel like ANet hates them individually, and makes changes for that reason alone. Trust me, folks, it isn't all about you.

Lollerskates.

Ravious · Jun 03, 2007, 06:20 PM // 18:20

I think we will get a new log-in screen for June. We had the Factions log-in screen quite some time before Factions actually came out.

The Great Al · Jun 03, 2007, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by wetsparks

Just as long as they fix, I mean give, the hero/henchman AI so that they scatter from AoE like the monsters I will be happy. I dont expect the PVE only skills to be to impressive. They will be either copies of existing skills like Searing Flames or something before it got hit by the nerf bat and be so uber powerful that you have to have it to get into a group or so incredibly useless that if you have them on your skill bar you will be kicked out of your group.

Soul reaping they will probably implement the fix that they wanted to implement earlier but knew that the community would wine so they hit it with the current band aid so that they will look good for when it actually does come out we will be happy with it.

And I hope the dont do to much to change the mesmer. Just change some skills so that they do more direct damage like [skill]energy burn[/skill] instead of conditional stuff like [skill]backfire[/skill] or [skill]empathy[/skill].

As to the skill balance, its not only the PVE people that will complain. All the groups that abuse the gimmick builds in PVP will complain the loudest because they will actually have to use an honest build now.

Yeah, that's all that PvP needs, another energy burn sort of skill.

Gaia_Hunter · Jun 03, 2007, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caoimhe

This thread should stickied, and framed, and required reading for everyone who plays GW, simply because of the overwhelming hubris diplayed herein.

Quit playing. Just quit. Don't like changes? Leave. Leave the game to those of us who appreciate the effort, even when there are times when it seems the effort is going a direction opposite to what we might wish.

Call us fanbois, ANet lovers, whatever gets you through the night. I just don't care. All I know is that there seems to be a lot of people who feel like ANet hates them individually, and makes changes for that reason alone. Trust me, folks, it isn't all about you.

Changes arent either good or bad because of being changes.

Did anyone complained about more storage space?

Did anyone complained about the introduction of chests in the Deep or in Urgoz (and im wating for chests in Tombs)?

Did anyone complained when they nerfed Energizing Finale?

Did anyone complained about Insignias to all armors?

Not everyone will be happy with some changes. I will be very pleased when all chapter weapons receive the inscription system. Some will scream rage, as they will see their worthy items lose value.

The Soul reaping nerf didnt bother me alot, although its a something thats clearly a rushed fix, and not something perfect.

Making solo farm less and less profitable, while not making PvE a bit more rewarding makes me completly mad.

So, a change is only fine if its good and for some real purpose.

Anet cant give players everything they want, cause that will make the player lose interest (just grab a character/item editor for some singleplayer rpg, and see how much time you will be interested in the game). But on the other hand, if players cant expect a reasonable reward for their time, they will get frustrated and lose interest anyway.

Aditionally, sometimes Anet feel compelled to do changes, some realy quick, like the loot scaling fix to rare/unique items/materials. That means they also screw stuff withe their changes.

Sure people will always scream about changes, for some reason or the opposite one, but when they really get vocal, something happened.

lacasner · Jun 03, 2007, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Quote:

Not everyone will be happy with some changes. I will be very pleased when all chapter weapons receive the inscription system.

/Signed for inscription..except maybe for this. How about that all items which exist and will drop have inscription capability, but for people who have older items, they can choose not to add the inscription and preserve their "old school" look of the item. This way, some players can change and "inscriptalize" their items, and others can preserve their old item descriptions.

Kakumei · Jun 03, 2007, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

Hard mode is way, way unbalanced against the player hence to nerf the Sunspear skills to be "balanced" would not be a good idea. The Sunspear skills should be unbalanced in order to balance out the unbalanced mobs of Hard Mode.

But then it wouldn't be Hard Mode anymore, it'd be "All The Numbers Are Twice As Big As Soft Mode" Mode.

I don't know about you but I'd really prefer to write HM rather than ATNATABASM.

MoreaChanduen · Jun 03, 2007, 06:58 PM // 18:58

They just need a way to eliminate the grind... back when farming was easier, I felt very little grind necessity. Money was fairly easy to come by, and I could somewhat simply get the things that I needed most.

Now there's practically no way to make money. I'm down to almost nothing in terms of cash and I can't find a way to remedy the situation.

So what I want to see most in this summer update is either:

a) removal of loot nerf
b) new loot system on top of loot nerf that allows for better farming (comparable to what it once was)
c) a refund.

Gaia_Hunter · Jun 03, 2007, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

But then it wouldn't be Hard Mode anymore, it'd be "All The Numbers Are Twice As Big As Soft Mode" Mode.

I don't know about you but I'd really prefer to write HM rather than ATNATABASM.

The problem is that its hard mode because its "ATNATABASM" already.

Its hard cause mosnters simply have more... More Hit Points, More Attack Speed, More Cast Speed, More Attributes, More Armor, More Damage.

They dont play any smarter or even different, they just have MORE.

Kakumei · Jun 03, 2007, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaia_Hunter

The problem is that its hard mode because its "ATNATABASM" already.

Its hard cause mosnters simply have more... More Hit Points, More Attack Speed, More Cast Speed, More Attributes, More Armor, More Damage.

They dont play any smarter or even different, they just have MORE.

That's the point. The monsters have more than us--which is one way of making the game harder, though perhaps not the best. If they give us overpowered Sunspear skills that would put us on the same level as them, it would be exactly the same as Soft Mode but with bigger numbers all around.

Winterclaw · Jun 03, 2007, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Mystic Regen will probably be nerfed if you ask me.

Paragons will be nerfed again because of paraway.

Necros will have a lot of things buffed and one or two skills slightly nerfed.

Water Magic and it's inability to damage will be forgotten again.

Navaros · Jun 03, 2007, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

But then it wouldn't be Hard Mode anymore, it'd be "All The Numbers Are Twice As Big As Soft Mode" Mode.

I don't know about you but I'd really prefer to write HM rather than ATNATABASM.

That's what skill recharge times are for. Unbalanced PVE skills would be balanced via skill recharge times, since all the enemies in Hard Mode have twice as big numbers 100% of the time and the player would still not.

Additionally, the PVE Sunspear skills probably won't work on Heroes, and most HM players are forced to use Heroes & Hench most of the time since hardly any players are around who want to play in HM. Therefore chances are there would only be one or two PVE Sunspear skills in a HM party at any one time. Which is all the more good reason to make them "godly".

Theus · Jun 03, 2007, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Maybe..oh I don't know..

We should look at the first glaring fact that a majority of the Guild Wars comunnity doesn't even play Hardmode?

Maybe after they've fixed that we can worry about difficulty.

Chthon · Jun 03, 2007, 09:17 PM // 21:17

First and foremost, as long as soul reaping gets a satisfactory fix, everything else is secondary for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

Mesmer Fixes: Gaile posted a long Dev Update about how the Developers will fix the Mesmer in PvE by fixing the scope, i.e. the role, of the Mesmer. How they will fix the Mesmer in PvE, and not break them in PvP, I do not know. I bet that ArenaNet's fix for the Mesmer would be to make the Sunspear Skill alloted to Mesmers so super-duper powerful that every PvE party will be forced to have a Mesmer. Gaile also said that the fixes will bevery subtle and on a trial basis...which implies, in ArenaNet terminology, that they are super-broken.

I'm betting on some sort of AoE direct damage that turns them into wannabe eles. You pretty much can't compete as a PvE caster without huge AoE damage, so that's about the only option. I'd think that AoE damage curses would be more mesmer-ish than direct damage, but there's not a lot of room between strictly-inferior-to-SS and omg-waaaay-overpowered to put a bunch of skills into, much less a bunch of non-elites.

Quote:

Soul Reaping: Gaile said that there will be updates (plural) to the Soul Reaping mechanic; atleast "two changes," apparently. How can there be two changes? You fix it, or you don't.

Easy. Change #1 is to remove the stupid POS timer. Change #2 is to do something to actually address spirit spam builds in PvP. There, that's two changes.

Quote:

If ArenaNet's solution is to simply remove SR Energy gain from Spirits, which players have been saying, I'll simply laugh.

I'm note sure if this is what change #2 will be, but I'd be overjoyed if it were. Destroys an overpowered build in PvP; restores PvE to a state that most players prefer; what's not to like? [Braces self for moronic post about how SR has always been horribly gamebreakingly overpowered in general PvE, despite the lack of complaints or balance changes for 2 years....] I've heard the claims that completely killing spirit spam would be a terrible thing, but, frankly, I could not care less if one FotM gimmick build gets nerfed out of existence for the sake of the entire class. I fear that there may be just too much ego and pride tied up in this mistake for a-net to back out of it, but, of the little hope I have left that a-net can actually get things right, is all of it riding on this one.

Quote:

Sunspear PvE Only Skills: Oh, yeah, the supposed big PvE fixer-upper. These skills were supposedly to have been released during Hard Mode...so if ArenaNet needed 2 months to balance these skills, they are either ungodly overpowered, or just plain useless. I think it'll be the former; would anyone use them if they were useless? Of course, that'll lead to the more "cookie-cutter" mentality that you must use the skill, as is with Lightbringer's Gaze...ho hum. We'll see.

My bet's on "just plain useless." I really can't see them handing out a handful of uber-skills to go along with hard mode. I expect more lightbringer's-gaze-quality skills - not inherently awful, but devoid of synergy possibilities and certainly not good enough to justify displacing a skill from any well-designed, well-synergized skillbar.

Quote:

Skill Balance: Since the May Championship is over, ArenaNet will do a skill balance. Rangers won't receive a Bow Attack Skill revamp, just a few general changes.

I'm afraid I agree. A-net favors quick and easy "balances." (See the SR fiasco.) I don't doubt that they could do it, I just don't anticipate them being willing to dedicate the man hours (and the funding for those man hours) to fix the marksmanship line "the right way." A few superficial changes is all I'm expecting. I'd love to be proved wrong though.

Quote:

Of course, you know that these Skill Balance changes will cause the PvE community to whine that their obscure farming builds has been nerfed. Just a general trend.

Marksmanship line changes ruining farming builds? I doubt it. Unless a-net starts mucking with expertise or the marskmanship mechanic itself or pulls some braindead across-the-board nerf that just destroys the whole line, I can't imagine how they could manage to hurt farming builds by messing around with the marksmanship skillline.

Or did you mean the general changes in other areas? Probably will cause some whining, as well as some legitimate complaints. A-net has a bad habit of paying little to no attention to the impact of their "balance" changes on PvE before releasing them. As for established farming builds getting nerfed, I'm not terribly bothered by that. Insofar as it's a "legitimate" activity at all, it's supposed to be a challenge of creativity - forcing people to find new farming builds doesn't bother me. What bothers me is when general-play PvE gets a nerf that can't be worked around, or forces you into one narrow way of dealing with the nerf.

Quote:

That's all I can seem to gather. ArenaNet occasionally surprises with extra features within updates.

Indeed, they do. Though, to be honest, I'd trade them all for better, less-nerf-happy, more-time-spent balancing instead.

Quote:

But it's clear that this is the last significant update before other online gaming opertunities will be...considered.

True.

GreatLich · Jun 03, 2007, 10:17 PM // 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaia_Hunter

Changes arent either good or bad because of being changes.

Any sane mind will concur.

Quote:

Did anyone complaine about more storage space?

Yes, people posted that it came to late and didn't include pet/armour/whatever-storage. People with only one or two campaigns complained that people with all three got more...

Quote:

Did anyone complaine about the introduction of chests in the Deep or in Urgoz (and im wating for chests in Tombs)?

Yes, people complained that their drops still sucked and when they didn't it wasn't a new skin.

Quote:

Did anyone complained when they nerfed Energizing Finale?

I'm sure someone out there felt anet had killed his paragon for pve

Quote:

Did anyone complained about Insignias to all armors?

They sure did: about collector armour not getting them, about anet messing with "their" stuff. About armour being "utterly destroyed for me" paraphrasing ofcourse.

I Read it all here...

Quote:

Not everyone will be happy with some changes. I will be very pleased when all chapter weapons receive the inscription system. Some will scream rage, as they will see their worthy items lose value.

The Soul reaping nerf didnt bother me alot, although its a something thats clearly a rushed fix, and not something perfect.

Making solo farm less and less profitable, while not making PvE a bit more rewarding makes me completly mad.

So, a change is only fine if its good and for some real purpose.

Anet cant give players everything they want, cause that will make the player lose interest (just grab a character/item editor for some singleplayer rpg, and see how much time you will be interested in the game). But on the other hand, if players cant expect a reasonable reward for their time, they will get frustrated and lose interest anyway.

With the reward being something other than the fun you have/had playing? I get that, the rest id gravy...

Quote:

Aditionally, sometimes Anet feel compelled to do changes, some really quick, like the loot scaling fix to rare/unique items/materials. That means they also screw stuff with their changes.

Sure people will always scream about changes, for some reason or the opposite one, but when they really get vocal, something happened.

And that is an obvious Unwanted Thing (tm). I'd hate for Anet to make a change based on the number of whines out there...fear of change is an ill advisor. And there's gonna be whines, about anything and everything. Just look at the OP, any thread started by this person is a whine or a rant.
*sigh* what am I still doing here?

Loviatar · Jun 03, 2007, 10:26 PM // 22:26

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

First and foremost, as long as soul reaping gets a satisfactory fix, everything else is secondary for me.
'm note sure if this is what change #2 will be, but I'd be overjoyed if it were. Destroys an overpowered build in PvP; restores PvE to a state that most players prefer

did you read the official post that SR will not be restored to its former precap power?

so that is not going to be it

Lord Oranos · Jun 03, 2007, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

The mid-June super-update, which Gaile has been hearlding for way too long (since April, IIRC), that will be a huge hook for all players, and possibly as big an impact as the Hard Mode update itself.

I see it as ArenaNet's last attempt to salvage PvE before GWEN. PvE is unappealing due to lack of motivation to play Hard Mode, by either unfair enemies or crappy loot. The update better give PvErs a reason to PvE...it's very pointless, ATM.

And the update was said to be "within two weeks" of May 27th, i.e. it will be next week. Of course, with ArenaNet ETAs, you never know. I expect to see a relevant Weekend Event as well (probably double Sunspear points again).

Anyways, here's a recent Gaile Blog summary from GWO which details some of the additions this update will provide. From that log, and my own observations of random Gaile postings, here's what's going to be in the super-update.

Mesmer Fixes: Gaile posted a long Dev Update about how the Developers will fix the Mesmer in PvE by fixing the scope, i.e. the role, of the Mesmer. How they will fix the Mesmer in PvE, and not break them in PvP, I do not know. I bet that ArenaNet's fix for the Mesmer would be to make the Sunspear Skill alloted to Mesmers so super-duper powerful that every PvE party will be forced to have a Mesmer. Gaile also said that the fixes will bevery subtle and on a trial basis...which implies, in ArenaNet terminology, that they are super-broken.
Soul Reaping: Gaile said that there will be updates (plural) to the Soul Reaping mechanic; atleast "two changes," apparently. How can there be two changes? You fix it, or you don't. If ArenaNet's solution is to simply remove SR Energy gain from Spirits, which players have been saying, I'll simply laugh.
Sunspear PvE Only Skills: Oh, yeah, the supposed big PvE fixer-upper. These skills were supposedly to have been released during Hard Mode...so if ArenaNet needed 2 months to balance these skills, they are either ungodly overpowered, or just plain useless. I think it'll be the former; would anyone use them if they were useless? Of course, that'll lead to the more "cookie-cutter" mentality that you must use the skill, as is with Lightbringer's Gaze...ho hum. We'll see.
Skill Balance: Since the May Championship is over, ArenaNet will do a skill balance. Rangers won't receive a Bow Attack Skill revamp, just a few general changes. Of course, you know that these Skill Balance changes will cause the PvE community to whine that their obscure farming builds has been nerfed. Just a general trend.

That's all I can seem to gather. ArenaNet occasionally surprises with extra features within updates. But it's clear that this is the last significant update before other online gaming opertunities will be...considered.

No offense Zinger, but you seem to have an overall negativity whenever anet is involved.

darkknightkain · Jun 03, 2007, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Mystic Regen will probably be nerfed if you ask me.

Paragons will be nerfed again because of paraway.

Necros will have a lot of things buffed and one or two skills slightly nerfed.

Water Magic and it's inability to damage will be forgotten again.

Last I checked in the battle theater, Paraway still got slaughtered in the hands of Nercos. If anything those two should be reversed...

Nercos will be nerfed again because of their semi-infinite energy. (changing from total-infinite energy to semi-infinite energy is hardly sufficient)
Paragons will have a lot of things buffed and one or two skills slightly nerfed.

Though I completely agree with you for the other two... there are practically no difference between the effectiveness of Water at 0 versus Water at 12.

LifeInfusion · Jun 03, 2007, 11:37 PM // 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spazzer

Here's to hoping for inscribable weapons for all chapters, and the "rebalancing" of unconditional weapons.

Me too. It will mean Factions and Prophecies will stop giving me staves that don't have any use.
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As for PvE mesmers, it has come down to the point that a lot of people use them as mules. The people that actually have played them through should really get rewarded by a mesmer PvE buff.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by RbX

I am still waiting for the "hero/hench scatter" button to at least minimize aoe damage in HM.. anyone doing Kaineng City in HM?

The hero/hench monks have to walk out of maelstrom. It is retarded.
================================================== ==========

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Water Magic and it's inability to damage will be forgotten again.

Water isn't meant to damage. Regardless there are skills in there that do damage, albeit not much. Otherwise, it would be the bane of Fire entirely. Earth already puts Fire AOE to shame, other than Searing Flames+Fireball.
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Re: Marksmanship
How would buffing bow skills lead to farming? The only skill I can think of even useful for farming is barrage.

Series · Jun 03, 2007, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Zinger, right on. Some people say your are too pessimistic or whiny.. well, sorry if the truth sounds pessimistic fellas.