Curse

Kool Pajamas · Jun 13, 2007, 09:48 PM // 21:48

"Note: After reviewing the comments and feedback we are going to move forward with the allowing guests in Daily Automated Tournaments, but we are going to keep the 14-day restriction on the 4 guild members"

zic · Jun 13, 2007, 09:49 PM // 21:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elnai

"Participants in Daily GvG Tournaments no longer require 14-day guild membership."

Wow thank you anet! Now that all high ranked guilds don't have to risk their rating points, we can have automated smurffest!!! HURRAY!

A good solution? Put the requirement somewhere between 3-7 days, so we can get rid of the smurfs but still allow more guilds in.

OR they could fix the times so people don't have to come home early to play or stay up late to play.

Despozblehero · Jun 13, 2007, 09:54 PM // 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Despozblehero

I have a suggestion to effectively deal with ritspike in a way that wont make the class useless for pvp or pve purposes. Reduce their spammable damage output. the cost/recharge/casting times of spells like spirit burn and weilders strike can be increased to make them less spammable or the actual damage can be decreased. also the conditions of the double damage effect could be changed to something like "if a spirit under your control is in range," or "under the effect of your own weapon spell." The ritualist has some very powerful spirits and healing capabilities but with the large damage output, in a way reminds me how Monk used to be with huge damage outputs(i.e. smite) with lots of healing. Smite was obviously nerffed because this combination was far too good. It is the same with the channeling/restoration combo. I am hard pressed to think of any builds that 7 players can spam out 370+ damage each in 3 seconds (with timing spirit rift 2 sec). Have 4 people with 300+healing (as well as 2 back-ups packing 250+ heals) all able to shoot off in about 2 seconds. Plus on top of all that the effects of the spirits themselves for defensive/regerative/healing/offensive purposes that easily fit into the bars of 8 people.

So you have easy damge and easy heals with easily met conditions. Please address this will a skill balance, it has been needed for a very long time (for the past 2 months since 8v8 was re-introduced) and theres some ways of doing so that im sure i havent even thought of i just suggested one. If the skill needed to counter the build were equal to the skill needed to play the build effectively i dont I or as many other people would complain about it. I personally dont play it because i like a bit more of a challenge than 3...2...1... every few seconds and im sure would the majority of the HA players would agree.

if nothing else in this skill balance was addressed other than this id be happy... I doubt id be the only one. Yes there may a few brand new HA'er that wont like it but its a build that only hurts them and HA in the longrun.

Lorekeeper · Jun 13, 2007, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Izzy wanted to add another thought: "I know there are a lot of concerns about hexes, so this week during the test please bring out all of the hex builds and really push the issues you feel are going to be a problem, as normally during this week you will have a lot of eyes from Anet on things and if you want skills to change, now is the time to prove they are broken."

prove they are broken!?

gfg

The GvG guilds have had to suffer how many months of the Reapers mark Nec, Migraine mes, Apply burning arrow ranger build?

Heart of Ashes and Dust [HAnD] reached no1 position on the ladder before ATS came into action. Guess what build they had run nonstop to pass all other seasoned guilds like vD, eF etc... yes HEXES.

futile discussions regarding the terrible state of play regarding hexes has culminated in the collapse of top level gvg. How many top 30 guilds from before the massive hex update are still playing? Soooo many of the top GvG guilds are inactive because of this issue. Are you not concerned that so many of the older top level gvg guilds have made way for the newer less experienced ones? The integrity of GW GvG hinges on the commitment of the guilds to play season after season... its such a shame that so many guilds have decided its not worth playing anymore. It might be natural for the old to give way to the new... but its almost as if this change has been forced onto these guilds... they moved on because they no longer felt gw was about skill... but about the build. Run a hex build or run its counter... anything else just fails.

It was forseen... in the massive january update that for some reason you guys were encouraging a hex meta. The update boosted so many hexes and the following skill balance a few months later did nothing to address the new meta you had forced onto us.

It is such a slap in the face that you can come here and ask players to use this week as the time to finally prove that things are as bad as they claim. Look at whats happened to the pvp community, look at the state of gvg... go talk to the players in the top 20. The GWP on MiRC has been a great source of feedback about the impact of skills on pvp... have you ever personally visited that chat channel?

Its no longer the time for us to SHOW you whats wrong and whats broken... its plain obvious and there are countless posts on every main GW fan forum stating clearly the problems. I personally am quite tired of repeating the same mantras over and over again. Hexes are imbalanced... solve the problem! You very rarely listen to the opinions of the most respected posters for this game so why would any of them feel motivated to provide yet more feedback... about issues they identified almost 4-5 months ago!

sigh

you have got to realise that the amount of time that this issue has been left to rot has had a lasting impact on peoples minds about this game.

its too little too late

good job youre all working on GW2 now... cos you need all the time you can get to work on that before its release.

its all down to broken promises

the biggest promise i can think of is the promise of more frequent skill balances as the ATS are introduced. You explained the slow balance updates was due to your reluctance to balance mid-ladder season.

Now that ladder seasons dont really exist in the same sense... what explains the same cumbersome and frustrating amount of skill balances that were promised to come more frequently and were the NO 1 concern of pvpers?

unfortunately the answer many a player has formulated in his/her head regarding this is not favourable towards you guys one bit.

Take a look at the gw forum that is mainly frequented by gvgers... that place is a sad indicator of things as the pvp community see it.

Just concentrate on GW 2...

this is all a too little far too late

and if the pitiful amount of published skill changes you have posted already are an indicator of anything

heaven help gw 2

NinjaKai · Jun 13, 2007, 10:09 PM // 22:09

I used Warrior's Endurance well before this update. So it's a win for me. I like the change to spawning power. I hope that one stays since there are no other ways to extend the duration of a weapon spell.

Elnai · Jun 13, 2007, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by zic

OR they could fix the times so people don't have to come home early to play or stay up late to play.

There certainly has to be 1-4 tournaments that you're able to attend in a week. Its not the same times everyday.

I guess now any "good" guild would have two guilds now. One for the ladder and one for tournaments. Thats the only way you can compete with the soon to be implemented smurffest!

FoxBat · Jun 13, 2007, 10:27 PM // 22:27

While everything you've said is true, I believe the perspective Izzy is coming from is that he can't find hexes on obs mode lately. Neither can I. Why is that?

Kool Pajamas · Jun 13, 2007, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Because everyone is running rit spike.

Despozblehero · Jun 13, 2007, 10:57 PM // 22:57

if you dare try anything else but the ritspike counter you get rolled by a mob of unranked people hitting "t" and "spacebar" every few seconds. so of course no ones going to try anything new you get *absolutely* rolled by noobs if you do. lol try to stand in a ward or well vs rit-spike, or hex-degen vs rit-spike in kill count. ;p get rid of the overpowered rit build and people might just pull out all the stops for some good builds.until then rit spiking it is too fast and too overpowered to justify attempting something else.

Make people learn to play a good build and if you take it away they will still have their skill. If they do finally do something about rit spike your gonna have a lot of people who will have no clue how to play in HA anymore.

Sha Noran · Jun 13, 2007, 10:57 PM // 22:57

I lol'd.

For the record, I'm not flaming here, but I'd like some of the following concerns to be at least considered:

1) Is there any particular reason you're making Arcane Conundrum better than Migraine but leaving them backwards as far as Elite status? Mantra of Persistence+Arcane Conundrum (this new aoe version) is suddenly much more attractive than Migraine, as you can then use your elite for something else... like Ineptitude. Throw in the new buffed Clumsiness and Imagined Burden and Conjure Phantasm and you've (NICE) buffed hexes. It really is, as another poster put it, a slap in the face to serious PvP players when you say that you're buffing many of these skills for better use in PvE, when it's affect on the high end PvP metagame is obvious.

2) You're leaving Searing Flames alone because you "expect a lot of destruction from Fire Magic?" Hmm, well I expect to get wet if I go outside while it's raining, but that doesn't mean I don't bring an umbrella. Getting wet is a problem, so I fix it. Searing Flames is a problem, so fix it... something simple, such as lowering the area of effect maybe, would go a long way.

3) * Agonizing Chop: decreased activation time to .5 seconds. <-- Oh, sweet! So this is like pre-nerf Critical Chop except... better? I love Euro-spike! <3 Evisc-->Executioners-->Agonizing, I can't wait to run it.

4) You're keeping the Monk changes small as to not upset the current playstyle of the Monk... that's cute, except the current Monk meta is stagnant and can't actually deal with everything it comes against as it is. Has it occured to anyone over there at ANet that maybe the problem isn't the hexes themselves... it's a lack of viable hex removal compared to viable hexes? WTB Viable Party-wide Hex Removal OR Stack Hex Removal, 100k+xxEcto

5) Lol, Crippling Shot buff... and then your reasoning is that you're trying to put it on level with Burning Arrow. It's difficult to describe how silly that is... first of all, Crip Shot as it is is still viable and is what you think of as "balanced".. you know, "balance", that word that you mutter occasionally with a glazed and distant look in your eye, like you've let slip the name of a powerful god. Buffing it like this makes it overpowered... again. Secondly, Burning Arrow shouldn't be compared... people aren't going to run Crip Shot over Burning in the situations where they're running Burning. Burning is used as additional pressure or spike damage, Crip Shot is an entirely different type of skill.. and it isn't going to be used over Burning in the prevelant hex builds that it's seen in (for example), where you've already got Water Magic for speed debuffs.

6) Oh man, buffing Weapon Spells. I'm so excited to know that the most over-powered, impossible to remove character buffing skills in the game are going to be even better! Seriously, I'm extremely happy to see some Paragon countering skills for the Mesmer now, but would it really be such a bother to maybe make it so there's some possible way of removing Weapon Spells? Somehow? Maybe? Weapon of Warding isn't nearly so much a problem as Splinter Weapon or, worse, Vital Weapon.

Those are the primary issues I see. The whole Chat thing is kind of a joke to me, after two years it's such an ancient problem there's no point in fixing it anymore... I would prefer you cracked down on the OBVIOUS botting going on (as in, you see groups of 5 low level Mo/W in some town with the leader of the group a level 20 Mo/W, and all of their names are like "Wgojodi V". Ban please? Or if you want to play Bot Ban Tetris go to somewhere like Rhilon Refuge or Granite Citadel, and just watch them run to the sign by the door, and then out.)

I was going to go off on the whole change to ATs, as they completely invalidate one of the primary reasons to switch off the original ladder system in the first place (i.e. avoiding smurfing) but... whatever ANet, I have no idea what you're thinking about for GvG anymore.

Also, to be fair: Props on the Mesmer interrupts now affecting Chants, that helps A LOT. Props on that ammended Soul Reaping fix, it's much more well adjusted to reality in the way you describe it here. Props on the Recall fix, Recall gank as it is is just.... lol.

Peace

XvArchonvX · Jun 13, 2007, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sha Noran

I lol'd.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sha Noran

1) Is there any particular reason you're making Arcane Conundrum better than Migraine but leaving them backwards as far as Elite status?

Hehe, I lol'd at this comment.

Migraine has a longer duration, half cast time, -3 degen, and causes spells to take longer to cast than Conundrum. Making Conundrum have a TINY AoE effect does not make it better.

Evilsod · Jun 13, 2007, 11:36 PM // 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

Hehe, I lol'd at this comment.

Migraine has a longer duration, half cast time, -3 degen, and causes spells to take longer to cast than Conundrum. Making Conundrum have a TINY AoE effect does not make it better.

They're both 100% longer. Sure you're not thinking of Frustration and its 50%?

Helcaraxe · Jun 13, 2007, 11:39 PM // 23:39

well, most of the skill changes were good... the change (again) to soul reaping is fairly lame... they are making it way too complicated.

The problem with the spam thing (besides that they didnt really fix anything) is that if you are trying to buy or sell something, using the trade channel is worthless, and we all know that. Because 90% of players keep the trade channel turned off nearly all the time. So, why would I put something in trade chat if I want to sell it or buy it as fast as possible? There is absolutely no incentive to.

The spam problem is created and perpetuated by the player base... It really is nothing A-net can fix.

The day I see "GLF Mesmer for mission" in a joking manner then I might believe spam in local can be fixed.

R4MpAgE · Jun 13, 2007, 11:45 PM // 23:45

two words for the spam problem. Auction House.

zamial · Jun 13, 2007, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Well, I'd like to start off by saying I am a pve player 98% of the time.I don't do alot of pvp related activities except when necessary to help fill out guild teams.

I would like to address the issues of the "bot" and "spam",as I will not speak on pvp issues that are mostly irrelevant to me.

To Anet:
The spam in local chat.......
Why stop at the "want to buy or sell" spam?Lets just fell the axe on it all.The "looking for people/group" or the "My guild is recruiting" spam is just as bad.There was and is a search button that was given to us to help us find parties/guilds/teams/ect. and it is wholly UNUSED.To single out 1 and not the rest is wrong.If you could address all the spam with 1 effort ,I may turn my local back on, to chat with other players.Spam is spam is spam end of thought. STOP ALL THE SPAM.

The "Bot" issue....
The real Bot issue is: the buying and selling of in game gold for real world money/goods,Which is a direct violation of the EULA.You have gone out of your way to discourage bot sweat shops IN GAME and in the process hurt many honest players.The gold is getting tight.If you REALLY wanted to stop the Ebaying of gold it would take less than 1 week.You could set up a sting buying/selling some gold on ebay or have an employee's child do it. (which you would have to pay for but 5-10 dollars isnt much and lol you can make the money back from the buyers) and when the player "completes" the deal in game WHAMMO!!!!! account deleted and why stop at the account? Take out the Whole guild/alliance,as a guilt by association clause. In less than 2 weeks all the bot shops are gone or broke or are at least no longer apart of Guildwars.The spam bots are just as bad, but to prove they are bots, you will need to remove the up/down arrow key function out of chat,or over zealous players will accidentally feel the wrath.

Well Im off to play my favorite game.See ya there.

Targa Rains · Jun 13, 2007, 11:58 PM // 23:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Du Kor

PvP skills should be separted from PvE skills. PvE seems to get the short end of the stick when balancing pvp. With 3 lands, soon to be 4, it must be a nightmare to re-adjust the monster groups in pve to reflect the balance changes that the pvp dictated. They are re-balanced right? Or are the PvE-only skills going to be large blunt objects that will make everything PvE ok? Hmm...that might work.

I agree with you 1000%... but I wonder how they could do it. Although, it would be beneficially for both the PvP, PvE and any doubts the game devs that must have so many migraines balancing the game.

I'm a PvE b!tch and I dislike alot when some good skill gets "rebalanced" badly because it is too employed or too strong on PvP.

If they coulda seperate PvP and PvE skills, I'm sure they woulda done it right away. It's something I badly hope they gonna incorporate into GW2...

TREAT PVE AND PVP DIFF!

Thank you very much!..... just my 2cents

-Targa

Randvek · Jun 14, 2007, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Ah, I love the attempt at getting rid of trade spam in local channel. It's there because there's too much spam on the trade channel that it spills over into another one. So let's shove it all back into one channel, that'll help!

Why not solve the problem with the trading system rather than trying to pretty it up so that you can ignore the problem? It doesn't go away just because you take it off local channel.

Aera Lure · Jun 14, 2007, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by zamial

The spam in local chat.......
Why stop at the "want to buy or sell" spam?Lets just fell the axe on it all.The "looking for people/group" or the "My guild is recruiting" spam is just as bad.There was and is a search button that was given to us to help us find parties/guilds/teams/ect. and it is wholly UNUSED.To single out 1 and not the rest is wrong.If you could address all the spam with 1 effort ,I may turn my local back on, to chat with other players.Spam is spam is spam end of thought. STOP ALL THE SPAM.

LFG and recruiting messages go on the All Channel because there is no recruitment messaging channel. The only time this is spam is if it is repeated multiple times in succession unnecessarily.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randvek

Ah, I love the attempt at getting rid of trade spam in local channel. It's there because there's too much spam on the trade channel that it spills over into another one. So let's shove it all back into one channel, that'll help!

Why not solve the problem with the trading system rather than trying to pretty it up so that you can ignore the problem? It doesn't go away just because you take it off local channel.

No its there because people dont have the discipline to put it where it belongs. Its easy enough as a buyer to scan the trade channel and find what you're looking for and buy it. Always has been. Same for selling without the need to actually spam. Taking it off of the All channel is indeed an improvement. Cheers to Anet for an effort in that direction.

Improving the trading system would have been nice, but its not going to happen for GW. That's already been stated. The fact that there will be no auction house has no bearing on players "needing" to abuse the channels.

What is it with you people trying to justify All Channel trade spamming?

Skye Marin · Jun 14, 2007, 12:08 AM // 00:08

I've added comments on this from a Hero Battles perspective here, the Hero Battles forum:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...76#post2904676

Overall though, a few things stand out.

There are a small handful of things they could do to really help the situation with Rits:
-Tie any spirit-dependant skills to rely on a Spirit directly under your control, not just ally spirits. This would make killing specific spirits a viable tactic to weaken certain team aspects (offense, defense, etc).
-Reduce the duration of uber-long weapon spells, like Splinter Weapon from 60 seconds to 12, and Vital Weapon to no longer than 25 seconds. This will stop Splinter-Barrage spike and be the first step in nerfing Weider's Strike spike. The +15 armor from Ghostforge doesn't help things either.
-Slightly nerf specific spike spells, like reduce conditional damage on Weilder's Strike from 60 to 30, and the cast time on Rift from 1 second to 2.

Paragons need to be re-though and rebuffed. I still maintain that chants should be changed so that gaining Chants from a paragon would remove all previous chants from other paragons, but not cause them to trigger Echoes. From that, Chants and Echoes could be buffed a decent amount, especially offensive ones like Anthems of Envy, Flame, and Guidance. Command needs a buff overall, because half the skills there are way outclassed by "Charge!".

Not a bad update, but hexes, Rits, and Paragons really need a solid look at for the next update.

Evilsod · Jun 14, 2007, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Tbh i'd rather have the skills changing in PvE... using the same thing for years would just get boring, at least if things get changed because of PvP we have to do some thinking ourselves.