Curse

Sir Seifus Halbred · Jun 13, 2007, 04:51 AM // 04:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildmouseX

shiro's would just be way too over powered if it was req. 9. - go back to smokeing your bongs hippies.

- nuf said.

__________________________________________________
(check out mouse's zodiac clearence sale http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...03#post2893103)

umm...what about this?

Sentasi's Jade Hammer

Blunt damage: 19-35 (req. 9 Hammer Mastery)
Damage +15%
Energy -5
Double adrenaline on hit (Chance: 10%)
Health +30

Saevio's Maul

Blunt damage 19-35 (requires 9 Hammer Mastery)
Damage +15%
Energy -5
Double adrenaline on hit (Chance 10%)
Health +30

There are lots of greens with the exact same stats but with different skins/names/campaigns. So i fail to see your point....

Andrew Almond · Jun 13, 2007, 04:56 AM // 04:56

fixing the req on Shiro weapons from 13 to 12 would be a minor fix that would allow secondaries to be able to use the "skin". thats all i want. i dont like the looks of the other daggers. why should a assassin/derv be able to use a Claw of the Forgotten and a derv/assassin not be able to use Shiros blades?

Echuu Ishtar · Jun 13, 2007, 05:01 AM // 05:01

What pissed me off the most about Shiro's weapons is that they had to make them vampiric. Why oh why couldn't they have made them sundering so I could constantly carry around the coolest looking daggers in the game without them killing me.

Dralspire · Jun 13, 2007, 05:02 AM // 05:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by ichigo_panty

... I think this is to prevent secondary sin/war from using shiro's green.

That plan failed

:

bilateralrope · Jun 13, 2007, 05:05 AM // 05:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildmouseX

shiro's would just be way too over powered if it was req. 9. - go back to smokeing your bongs hippies.

- nuf said.

But Shiro's daggers are slashing, and the ones you linked to are piercing, so clearly they are unbalanced because of the different damage type. </sarcasm>

Really though having them at any req above 9 doesn't make any sense, when there are no other greens in the game with reqs that high.

Lotrfish · Jun 13, 2007, 05:06 AM // 05:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Seifus Halbred

umm...what about this?

Sentasi's Jade Hammer

Blunt damage: 19-35 (req. 9 Hammer Mastery)
Damage +15%
Energy -5
Double adrenaline on hit (Chance: 10%)
Health +30

Saevio's Maul

Blunt damage 19-35 (requires 9 Hammer Mastery)
Damage +15%
Energy -5
Double adrenaline on hit (Chance 10%)
Health +30

There are lots of greens with the exact same stats but with different skins/names/campaigns. So i fail to see your point....

They (not the hammers) don't have the same stats. One is req 13, the other is req 9.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Echuu Ishtar

What pissed me off the most about Shiro's weapons is that they had to make them vampiric. Why oh why couldn't they have made them sundering so I could constantly carry around the coolest looking daggers in the game without them killing me.

Because sundering sucks...

Brianna · Jun 13, 2007, 05:08 AM // 05:08

It's not Q people.. R or Req. or Requires.. please >.>.

I thought it was funny when they were Requires.15 because I guess Anet wanted them to have a ''superior'' feel to them since they were Big Bad Shiro's lol. Idunno why they didn't just lower it to 9 while fixing it but everything has its reason i guess, I think it's an unlikely event that any class uses Sin secondary for Dagger mastery skills, and even then use Shiro's blades, so the deal isn't that big.

WildmouseX · Jun 13, 2007, 05:21 AM // 05:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Seifus Halbred

umm...what about this?

Sentasi's Jade Hammer

Hammer

Blunt damage: 19-35 (req. 9 Hammer Mastery)
Damage +15%
Energy -5
Double adrenaline on hit (Chance: 10%)
Health +30

Saevio's Maul

Blunt damage 19-35 (requires 9 Hammer Mastery)
Damage +15%
Energy -5
Double adrenaline on hit (Chance 10%)
Health +30

There are lots of greens with the exact same stats but different skins/names/campaigns. So i fail to see your point....

my example shiro's blades is req 13, faveo's is req 9 - otherwise their the same... in yours, they are exactly the same. - hence my point is that shio's blades being at 13 is not a balance issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicken FTW

Good sins don't run low on energy after every spike thanks to Critical Strikes and some skills that return energy.
for example. Good sins don't die thanks to teleporting away, but the enemy shouldn't be regaining any health when you teleport, they should be dead. (Higher dagger mastery + Crit Strikes + ability to use runes ftw?)

The ele has 60 AL. Sins have 70. You're sacrificing 10 armor for a buffed energy pool, with no means of managing said energy, like the sin's Critical Strikes. I don't see any benefit at all.

Finally, I don't know who you played in GvG that lost to an E/A "sin in disguise" who's running 9 dagger mastery, but they must've been pretty awful.

Back on topic, I don't really care whether the daggers are req 13 or 9, since there are plenty of other daggers you could obtain with lower reqs. Sure, lower the req to match. Not like it breaks the game.

when i first made (and posted) the build there wasn't vvery many good sin's. the concept of hit and run was still new to most people.. once i got through factions i never realy played with any other sins in my group so i have no clue where other people's skill levels are. - yes, critical strikes is good for keeping your energy up, but it's not superior to just haveing a buffed energy storage.. Black lotus is contingint on your target being hexed - so you either have to have a hex planed in your attack structure, or you're at the mercy of the mes's/necro's in your group. - not something to bet your life on.

black lotus, and the other energy return attacks still work as a El primary - i just don't have any in that build. did they up the sin's armor? i remember them being equeal when i first made the character a year agao. either way, a good sin makes alot of effort to avoid being hit at all, hence a measly 10 armor isn't much of a sacrifice. - and as i stated before a teleport out and fireball finisher works just as good for makeing them dead.

finally it's not just GvG that she's excelled at.. i've had alot of success with her in AB, and HoH as well...generaly when a sin goes runing past the war he'll turn arround and chase em down, or the casters will target him - when they see an el run past, they usually think it's a moron playing, untill the daggers comeout and drop em. - it's realy quite effective.

back on topic, that was my point. - shiro's blades suck because their req 13, but you can get the same stat's on stuff with other skins, so it's not the end of the world.

Andrew Almond · Jun 13, 2007, 05:27 AM // 05:27

i'm just glad some of u see my point of view. they suck. because they are req 13. if they were req 12 or 9.. they would be cool. but they are not cool. not cool.

Plague · Jun 13, 2007, 05:31 AM // 05:31

I, too, think ANet wanted people to think of Shiro's weapons as being big and bad since they have such a high req.

Unfortunately, they're no better than anyone else's weapons since GW is a "balanced" game.

If this was a typical MMORPG, the Shiro weapons would have very powerful statistics.

But... as ANet often forgets, they wanted to make a "balanced" game, and as such, they forfeited many of the neater aspects of cool factor gear in MMOs.

As a result, Shiro's weapons are just... stupid. Funny how they accomplished the exact opposite of what they had hoped to accomplish.

Jongo River · Jun 13, 2007, 06:00 AM // 06:00

You know I've often thought that if certain skins where only req 13, because of who they were designed for (i.e. a demon, god or whatever), then reqs would actually make sense.

i.e. Beginner weapons Req 1-7
Very Rare Human Max weapons Req 8
Human Max weapons Req 9-10
Dwarf/Char weapons Req 11-12
Demon/spirit weapons Req 13

The idea that even if you are fully trained in a profession, you still need magical assistance to use a particular weapon is a little silly, without some sort of explanation. Just having one instance though, is pretty stupid.

Patrick Smit · Jun 13, 2007, 06:09 AM // 06:09

@ wildmouse X, so you choose to ignore double strike from high dagger attributes, and extra criticals and energy gain due high critical strikes. Furthermore u have only 60 AL compared to 70 from an assassin. We didnt discuss insignias available yet. I dont think an ele is better than a sin at being sin.

countesscorpula · Jun 13, 2007, 06:31 AM // 06:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildmouseX

shiro's would just be way too over powered if it was req. 9. - go back to smokeing your bongs hippies.

__________________________________________________

Please explain how shiro's daggers are so much more powerful than say.... Chkkr's Pincers

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Chkkr%27s_Pincers

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildmouseX

the ele has the same health, and same armor as the sin primary -

Uhm, no they don't. Ele's have 60 base armor, and Sins have a base 70*. In addition to this, 3 of the 4 insignias available to sins give +10 vs phys and +10 vs something else.

Maybe you should take few less hits off of that bong of yours... it's starting to adversly affect your perception of reality.

* (will someone explain to me why ranged paragons get 80 armor and close range sins get 70?)

prism2525 · Jun 13, 2007, 06:56 AM // 06:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildmouseX

shiro's would just be way too over powered if it was req. 9. - go back to smokeing your bongs hippies.

- nuf said.

__________________________________________________
(check out mouse's zodiac clearence sale http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...03#post2893103)

Just tell me how they would be overpowered? The only different thing is the skin. Perhaps a req of 10 would be good, as they are wielded by an 'uber pro' (which gets pawned in under 3 minutes but whatever)

-Loki- · Jun 13, 2007, 06:57 AM // 06:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildmouseX

negitive - Ele's make better sin's, then any assassin primary ever could...the problem with the sin is you run em out of energy going through the spikes, and end up either dyeing because you stood there auto-swinging - or you teleport away to recharge and they gain all their health back.

13 dagger, 12 critical strikes. You'll be doing so many critical hits your damage will be higher than you could possibly get using an elementalist primary, and gaining enough energy back to keep a chain going.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildmouseX

the ele has the same health, and same armor as the sin primary

Wrong. Assassins have 70 base AL, Elementalists have 60 base AL. That 10 AL difference is a hell of a lot for a character that's running into melee range.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildmouseX

and in PvP the suprise factor of an el runing up and sticking a dagger in your gut is priceless - that alone has won GvG battles for us.

Next time you see an elementalist primary dagger assassin in top 100 GvG, let me know. Any decent team would laugh, kill it, and go about killing the rest of your poorly constructed build.

Lonesamurai · Jun 13, 2007, 07:28 AM // 07:28

As loki pointed out above, people are getting very simple game information horribly wrong in this thread due to lack of knowledge or just not checking information first...

Again as loki pointed out, Ele's, like all casters have 60AL, where as 'Sins have 70AL like rangers

Also, both of the Shiro weapons are req 13, as they should be fairly "1337" to use as they where his weapons (come on guys, do a little role play here, i'd expect this more from you guys than from the other more elitest forums)

Examples:

Shiro's Sword

Shiro's Sword is a unique sword traded by Adept of Steel, a collector who can be found in Divine Path.

Stats

Slashing damage: 15-22 (requires 13 Swordsmanship)
Damage +15% (while Health is above 50%)
Life stealing: 3
Health regeneration - 1
Health +30

Shiro's Blades

Shiro's Blades are a unique item available at the end of Factions in exchange for an Amulet of the Mists from the Adept of Shadows in the Divine Path.

Weapon stats

Slashing Dmg: 7-17 (Requires 13 Dagger Mastery)
Damage +15% (while Health is above 50%)
Life stealing: 3
Health regeneration: -1
Health +30

So as you can see, the dagger version aren't just the only Req 13 weapons, his blade is to for Warrior's

WildmouseX · Jun 13, 2007, 07:37 AM // 07:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by countesscorpula

Please explain how shiro's daggers are so much more powerful than say.... Chkkr's Pincers

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Chkkr%27s_Pincers

for some reason my second pic was lost by image shack.

i've reuploaded it, so here you can look at the it as origionaly intended....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildmouse X

shiro's would just be way too over powered if it was req. 9. - go back to smokeing your bongs hippies.

- nuf said.

we just said the same thing, mine was just screwed up due to server error.

Quote:

Originally Posted by countesscorpula

Uhm, no they don't. Ele's have 60 base armor, and Sins have a base 70*. In addition to this, 3 of the 4 insignias available to sins give +10 vs phys and +10 vs something else.

Maybe you should take few less hits off of that bong of yours... it's starting to adversly affect your perception of reality.

* (will someone explain to me why ranged paragons get 80 armor and close range sins get 70?)

well i'll explain it too you, and that will address the rest of it... paragons are a close war support class, their supose to up by the front line buffing the wars with short range shouts.... assassin's are supose to be hit and run, spikers who are too smooth to get hit.. run in spike, get the hell out of there.

- hence why the paragon gets alot of armor to protect him while he stands there takeing hits and shouting; and the sin get's alot of teleport and run skills so he can get the hell out before he takes damage.

and that in and of it's self is the response to the difference in armor class, yes it's been over a year since i made the character, and therefore haven't looked at what the sin actually has. - you do your job as a sin right and avoid being hit, you can do eeet nakid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loki

Next time you see an elementalist primary dagger assassin in top 100 GvG, let me know. Any decent team would laugh, kill it, and go about killing the rest of your poorly constructed build.

top 100 GvG guild's tend play cookie cutter builds that they spec off of other GvG games, that's how they get in the top 100, and hence why you'ld never see em running creative builds ... just because you choose to believe something, doesn't make it reality. - most teams ignore the crazzy el untill the daggers are out and dropping them, it's a build that's worked aginst decent teams at many levels of PvP - that IS reality.

there are more ways to skin a cat, and as long as you are narrow minded to outside posibilities, they will always defeat you.

zwei2stein · Jun 13, 2007, 07:38 AM // 07:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Loki-

13 dagger, 12 critical strikes. You'll be doing so many critical hits your damage will be higher than you could possibly get using an elementalist primary, and gaining enough energy back to keep a chain going.

Amen to that (thou you want 13 criticals, and use critical eye)

You can spam attacks like there is no tomorrow.

Anyway, WildmouseX's sin build has so many problems that its not funny and he did one of noobiers mistakes (notably, assuming that big energy pool will solve energy problems.)

9 dagger mastery.
big fire investment without even thinking about using conjure to support damage.
no energy management at all (lol at energy storage.)

yes, i can imagine it can get kills, but at some level, pretty anything can get you kills.

WildmouseX · Jun 13, 2007, 07:45 AM // 07:45

yes that build was posted within the first month's factions was out and people were stilllearning and playing around with the system... it's evolved since then.

linh · Jun 13, 2007, 07:51 AM // 07:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildmouseX

negitive - Ele's make better sin's, then any assassin primary ever could...the problem with the sin is you run em out of energy going through the spikes, and end up either dyeing because you stood there auto-swinging - or you teleport away to recharge and they gain all their health back.

the ele has the same health, and same armor as the sin primary - but because of energy storage, they can stay there and throw attacks till the cows come home - and still have enough energy left over to finish off the kill with a nice fireball or ligtning strike. - my first and only sin has been an el primary, and she's outperformed sin primary all over the place, in all three chapters. -- and in PvP the suprise factor of an el runing up and sticking a dagger in your gut is priceless - that alone has won GvG battles for us.

I said good build, I don't say "possibly work" build. Yes, you can go that in RA, AB and actually kill. But no one uses it in TA,HA or GvG.
"then finish it with Lightning Strike or Fireball" just made my day.