Curse

Aera Lure · May 18, 2007, 03:42 PM // 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinnic

Reading this thread I can't help thinking that people are approaching Hard Mode with the wrong mentality. Why does loot matter to you guys so much? Beating the game in hard mode should be a reward in itself and the fact that you get a title to show off your achievement to others should be the cherry on top. But loot! Come on! Loot is so meaningless in Guild Wars that how it can be a motivation is beyond me.

For me its not enough to play in hard mode hours upon hours on end through the difficulty and frustration just to say I did it. I want the titles just like the next person and wish to play hard mode as well (my guild is inactive, so at the moment I need to figure out what to do since I cannot hero/hench HM completely, but this is an aside), but titles arent enough just on their own. They dont really do anything.

I need income. Without that and the ability to improve things I am just playing and nothing else, which is only good for a little while before I dont wish to do it anymore - again. Rate of return vs time played has fallen to all-time lows to the point where its near tedious to play. Fun, yes, dont get me wrong. At least for a little while. I play to explore the new chapter and get some new skills, but its just not like it used to be.

Just as a case in point, yesterday I saw a gold seller spamming on All channel that they were selling gold in 10k increments. 10k. If that's not an indication of how gold earning has fallen to all-time lows, I dont know what is. I dont know how community population is doing, but my guild is completely inactive whereas we used to have over 50 players. Anet, at least in PvE, needs to keep enough incentive to play in the game and not close the funnel so tightly in my opinion.

Its not just about loot, I agree with you. Earnings are, however, for many people part of the larger scope of play and Anet has pulled the rug out from under most of them. You can still be creative and find some more ways to earn, but the current game state has it more as work than anything else to the point now I just play a bit when I want to get a new chapter.

[edit]
Another thing is I used to have so much fun - SO much fun - joining random PUGs and healing and working my way through the game. Got 4 Protector titles, Treya included, in Factions that way. Difficulties increasing has encouraged players to play in-guild only and Heroes have added to this. The only PUGs out there right now for the most part are those players it seems that arent in active guilds or cant even make it through with Heroes on their own.

I am two missions short of getting Masters in NF now using just Heroes/Hench, so I am not having difficulty on my own in NM, but I miss the days of better PUGs (LOL - my god - I cannot believe I just typed that, but its true). PUGs are even worse now and the difficulty level has driven many off, or into retreats within their guilds. Its quite sad really. You do have to be in a good, active guild to really do much in HM and even then, I think there needs to be more motivation to actually go through all the time to actually do it, and that is drops, as well as the ability to play in a PUG from time to time and meet new people. Both pretty much gone. *poof*

Andisa Kalorn · May 18, 2007, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mylon

Prot spirit is god in this mode, though heroes only seem to use it on targets with 25% or less HP. SS, Spoil Victor, Empathy, Backfire, Diversion, Soul Leech, etc are all godly skills ...

The more I play hard mode, the more I realize how stupid the buffs are. All it does is make certain skills godly, and the rest useless. Especially since the buffs are for every foe in every campaign.

Hard mode doesn't require extra skill or a better strategy. All you have to do is have a team with those godly skills, and pull. It's kind of sad that I've been able to vanquish much of elona with the exact same build (and the same build on my heroes, and the same henchies with me).

It limits your options. Almost all my attempts at changing my build result in failure, or at least a large reduction in efficiency. And in the end it's just not fun playing the same build all the time.

As for prot spirit, I find you have to manage it yourself. I always have it on my own bar, and I have the heroes cast it on vulnerable party members (monks, those with high dp, etc.) before a fight.

viper008 · May 18, 2007, 04:18 PM // 16:18

Anet has secretly nerfed/fixed hard mode depending on your outlook of the situation.

In Arkjok Ward near the buried treasure the mob was adjusted in HM before it had 2 patrols on top of one another with 2 monks.
Now it only has one patrol and no monks at all so now it’s so much easier to deal with.

The Ele's do not output so much damage as before but still a force to reckon with and manageable to deal with.

I'm sure there are more things that they have done, these two stick out becuase I had a difficult time with few spots before the nerf/fix and I have no problems now.

Bryant Again · May 18, 2007, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

I've found why yHM is hard for you.
You're henching it!

Find a guild, please.

Or he just needs to look at his heroes bars a bit. Once you find the right build, HM is cake (sadly).

Spazzer · May 18, 2007, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Ahahahahaha.

Just had to vent on this one. I got through Zen Daijun more or less okay. I tripple aggroed some groups by accident but still managed to keep the party together and get to the end in good time.

I approach the bridge, call target on Yijo--

and he kills my entire party in one shot.

Seriously.

Fifteen minutes of work, and he oneshots my party.

The entire party.

One shot.

Bryant Again · May 18, 2007, 05:28 PM // 17:28

^ He annhilates the party pretty decently on Normal Mode, as well.

The Hard Mode Yijo sounds...Just wow.

Aera Lure · May 18, 2007, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spazzer

Meh; except Bastet is actually fun.

Then again, the object of Bastet is not actually to win and get your title. And it reacts to you, which is really nice. If hard mode always presented you with enemies that countered your build perfectly (ie tons of shatter hex if you bring hexes, wild blow if you use stances, life stealing if you are 55ing) and there was no way to win, it would be much much more rewarding.

Instead, we got this doa clone.

Bastet does actually sound fun, at least in so far as its concept and sense of humor about itself. Its the "frustrating" part I disagree with and commented on. Some areas in GW are already annoying as hell in normal mode, but certainly passable. I've been everywhere with henchemen in the pre-Heroes days and now with Heroes and have gotten all masters just using them in Nightfall. No biggie. That's not to say some areas still were not annoying. Some others were tactically and strategically interesting to figure out and beat, but its a fine line between the two things.

An ideal solution for HM I agree is not over-buffing everything, making some of the more annoying areas go beyond frustrating in my opinion, purposefully or unintentially giving you the worst possible combination of everything - over and over and over. I dont play games to get frustrated. I do, however, play them for a challenge sometimes and have no problem with that. I agree with your point that in the end I wish HM was smarter and less over-buffed. "No way to win" though? I dont know about that. Some games get too hard they simply become too much work to play and its no fun. I move on to other things sooner when that happens. Can I beat it? Yeah, sure, most of the time. Do I want to? Ehh, not really.

lennymon · May 18, 2007, 06:47 PM // 18:47

It's fun to hit him with a bunch of hexes and conditions, I prefer overkill

Glider of chaos · May 18, 2007, 07:32 PM // 19:32

Hard Mode Yijo is fun... Hero-hench team standing tightly packed on that bridge getting spirit rift for all is just awesome =) Needless to mention that BHA jin failed miserably trying to shut him down %)
I got past him with Dark Prison->Shroud of Silence but managed to fail on the last group with Mo boss XD

Mister Overhill · May 18, 2007, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Well, random PUGs is still the way to go for me, because that's where the fun is, and GW in single player mode is the same as playing any other shooter over and over and over again, and I'm just not into that. Not even with ten toons. Finding groups is hard, but if nothing develops, I just load up something else and try again another time.

Got Dunes and RoF done with my ranger last night. Good groups, good fun.

creelie · May 18, 2007, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Well, HM Tyria was terrific fun! But Elona and Cantha were designed from the start to keep a party on its toes in every encounter. When you then raise every monster to levels 26-30, and give them boss-style buffs, every encounter is an exercise in frustration. I could, with time and repeated attempts and a great deal of effort, rise to the challenge. But that doesn't sound like fun, and what's the point of a game if it isn't fun? Guardian of Tyria is good enough for me!

Spazzer · May 19, 2007, 04:06 AM // 04:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glider of chaos

Hard Mode Yijo is fun... Hero-hench team standing tightly packed on that bridge getting spirit rift for all is just awesome =) Needless to mention that BHA jin failed miserably trying to shut him down %)

Ironically, this is EXACTLY what happened to me.

I sent Jin in first to BHA and it HIT, so I released all flags and had all my heroes run up. Somehow, even with him dazed, jin did not interrupt spirit rift and we all were killed.

When I decide I'm in the mood for repeatedly bashing my head against a wall again, I'm going to use this same tactic again knowing full well that it's going to be completely based on luck now.

Cherno · May 19, 2007, 04:36 AM // 04:36

The most frustrating thing for me for hard mode is spending a lot of time working on the zone to be almost done, then to have it all destroyed by one impossible group/boss. Had everything clear in poisoned outcrops until the very end when we run into... what? 3 cavaliers, an acolyte, 2 giants with their stupid quicksand and a dune carver (who are insanely good at wiping out squishies)

I know that anet probably feels like people are whining, but honestly they said when they introducted it that they would be keeping an eye out and making adjustments as necessary. We are giving you exactly the kind of feedback you are looking for.

A few more things to consider...
There is no scaling to hard mode. In normal mode, early areas, where party size is limited, had lower level monsters, monsters got harder as you were able to add more members and scale appropriately. 4 people in early ascalon where the monsters are just as hard as they are in perdition rock. Not really fair. Not a challange, just a cruel joke.

Scale the monsters or allow people who are going to hard mode be able to add a full party.

Get rid of the 60% DP to automatically send to the town. Sometimes you can get a miracle to go through and do it, don't force us to have wasted our time by kicking us out beyond our control.

Spazzer · May 19, 2007, 04:53 AM // 04:53

imo hard mode wouldn't be so bad if they hadn't made hard mode titles. :P Now it's just insulting.

http://la.gg/upl/yijo.jpg

Xeng Jo likes to run up to Jin to throw dirt at her, so I did this to separate them. When I went back up again I rushed right up to Yijo and this caused the henchmen to spread out slightly enough that I didn't full wipe. Good! Now, let's go on to the next step:

http://la.gg/upl/wipe.jpg

Whoops. I meant this part:

http://la.gg/upl/hmmasterszen.jpg

The best thing about hard mode is that even if you pass by sheer luck, you get the title and you don't have to do it ever again.

Spazzer · May 19, 2007, 08:24 AM // 08:24

Has anyone ever beat Eternal Grove with just heroes and henchmen? All of the threads in Canthan Explorers league talk about 2 man or more team builds but nothing where 1 person alone (like me (all my friends think gw is dead now

)) can beat it.

I can't react fast enough to both sides and the henchman flag interface is simply not enough.

glountz · May 21, 2007, 09:08 AM // 09:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spazzer

Has anyone ever beat Eternal Grove with just heroes and henchmen? All of the threads in Canthan Explorers league talk about 2 man or more team builds but nothing where 1 person alone (like me (all my friends think gw is dead now

)) can beat it.

I can't react fast enough to both sides and the henchman flag interface is simply not enough.

Impossible to do alone. With another Human it's okay.
Third time I say it in this thread.
Don't try to HENCH hard mode.
1) It's harder with bots
2) It's not fun, playing with people (on TS) is.
3) Guild wars is called Guild Wars for a reason.

For ZEn Daijun, Broad Head Arrow works wonder. Or a Temple strike sin with protective spirit. This is true for any HM elementalist/ritualist boss. It's a lot constructive to shut him down with dazed than to try to put protective spirit on everyone.
In fact, saying PS is god in HM is bullshit as you will be unable to protect the whole party. Dazing, Blinding, Mesmerizing the ennemy so he can't do anything is.

Spazzer · May 21, 2007, 10:23 AM // 10:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

Don't try to HENCH hard mode.
1) It's harder with bots

Nobody plays hard mode. If you sucker some of your alliance mates to go with you, that's different. However, some of us just don't have our old friends anymore--all good GW players have left.

Plus, hardmode stuff is meant to be done only once. That means your group of 8 friends that help you get by this mission will never be back to help anyone else.

Personally, I'm just a grouch because I don't want to move into some big PvE alliance just so I can get my last maxed title and move up to 15.

glountz · May 21, 2007, 10:29 AM // 10:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spazzer

Nobody plays hard mode. If you sucker some of your alliance mates to go with you, that's different. However, some of us just don't have our old friends anymore--all good GW players have left.

Plus, hardmode stuff is meant to be done only once. That means your group of 8 friends that help you get by this mission will never be back to help anyone else.

Well I don"t know:
1) Find another guild
2) Find another Alliance
3) You're wrong. I did several times some HM areas, potentially especially rare skin potential areas in Cantha (Nahpui quarters, for celestial skins, or Sunjiang districs, for plague/shiroken skins) . I really don't care, as HM loot is excellent, and with loot scaling, you will have your part of the cake anyway. Any people having some thought about getting rare golds WILL never avoid the opportunity to vainquish several times the area.

The Titan · May 21, 2007, 01:31 PM // 13:31

I think the obvious reason is right there in front of you.

It's not rewarding enough.

Spazzer · May 21, 2007, 01:35 PM // 13:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

Well I don"t know:
1) Find another guild
2) Find another Alliance

I addressed these in the previous post. I don't want to have to join a big pve alliance just to get titles.

Quote:

3) You're wrong.

No, you're wrong. There are no skins unique to Eternal Grove.