Curse

-Loki- · Jun 17, 2007, 02:25 AM // 02:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Triple Shot seriously needs the reduced damage to be lowered. Most people don't have high ranks in Allegiance, giving people a skill that is almost no better than many other already existing skills is a bit pointless, even at the max level its not much better.

Plain bow damage is crap anyway. Bow damage comes from skills. Triple shots damage comes from, like dual shot, the amount of shit you can stack on top of it. Favourable Winds, a damage preparation, vampiric bow and/or a conjure. Whatever you stack on it, it triggers multiple times. It currently has the same cost and recharge as dual shot, at rank 1 the same damage reduction, but that extra arrow puts out some nice damage with stuff stacked onto it. Now, I'm not saying triple shot is as good as some of the other skills they added (hello Intensity, Eternal Aura, Elemental Lord, "Theres nothing to fear!", etc), but people who say it's weak aren't looking at it in the right light.

Sun Fired Blank · Jun 17, 2007, 02:58 AM // 02:58

I could very much repeat someone else's words in this post (or several someone else's words...), but I don't have a great problem with most of the skills. My experience is that everyone of them is fairly decent; I've no doubt many of them require adjustments, but I don't consider any of them to be unfixably underpowered or overpowered, especially given their status for PvE-only skills. My sense is that a great number of people are complaining but have not pondered exactly how much balance is required; it may be a lack of imagination or a lack of actual testing. For example, I don't mind the new elementalist skills; a first glance is overwhelming (OMG, +2 to elemental skills, +23% damage!) but a second glance and some testing is not. The problem is that a setup with both Intensity and Elemental Lord is going to drain you very quickly, and you probably don't care to give up so much energy management for +50% damage. If you're getting about 50% more benefit for energy spent per use of a skill, I don't know if that's blatantly worth giving up whatever it replaced, or if it's going to make your elementalist build unthinkably godly. It would make it better, however, and that is the point, I think. These skills are PvE-only options to improve a PvE character beyond certain levels. They should be at least a touch overpowered, just not broken.

With that in mind, the only skill that is absolutely underwhelming is Never Rampage Alone!, not because it doesn't have decent power (and it does), but for the reason that very few of the other skill blatantly forces you into a specific subset of build, and none of the other skills force you into a build that is, generally speaking, underpowered. I don't know exactly what could make it useful; perhaps if it was entirely self-contained? For example: 15e, 10s. "If your companion is alive, for 6 .. 10 seconds, you and your companion attack 25% faster and have +1...3 health regeneration. Otherwise, your companion is resurrected with 30...50% health and gains +20 armor." Triple Shot isn't particularly amazing. Perhaps if it had another option to recharge it instantly or completely remove the damage penalty. Save Yourselves! and "There's Nothing to Fear!" obviously require a reduction; to be frank, however, even a 50% reduction for effect and perhaps a very minimal reduction of cost and increase in duration would still make both skills distinguishable, powerful and useable, without requiring a build focused around them. Critical Agility is very powerful, also; it probably requires a minor nerf, although I don't know exactly what it might be. Perhaps the addition "or if you fail to hit" at the end of it? Shadow Sanctuary is a bit underwhelming also, but I don't know exactly what can be done with it, and I have no real suggestions either. The same applies for the Necromancer signet.

To be honest, the cross profession use of these skills is really awesome, but I think it's ultimately harmful. I would like to see that removed; it might be helpful to bind each of these skills to a primary attribute (e.g. Seed of Life), limit them in the same fashion as elites (one title skill at a given time; my personal choice), force them to be used by primary professions only (Intensity for a Necromancer only), or perhaps even a combination of every one of these. There are pros and cons to each of these options, but being able to stack certain title skills is horrendously abusive, and I don't think that should be allowed to continue.

My Green Storage · Jun 17, 2007, 03:01 AM // 03:01

I like Intensity (Ele Sunspear Skill)

Good for farming. Adds another 23% damage (Level 8 - Castellan)
E/A Shadow Nuker build FTW

But for casual PVE, I'm use to not having it, even though it's equipped, I don't bother clicking it unless I remember.

As for Kurzick/Luxon.
30k Kuzick
115k Luxon

So don't have em.

So I'm assuming Glyph of Ele Power + Allegiance skill would stack giving +4 to attributes?

Inger · Jun 17, 2007, 03:32 AM // 03:32

In terms of linking the SS/Kurzick,Luxon skills to a primary attribute or making them elite status(only one on ur bar at a time)... i prefer the later. Giving them elite status will take away the potential of people have 4 of the skills on your bar at once but will still allow characters to use any of the skills(with the exception of seed of life). The reason I would prefer it with elite status is I would like to have the variety in a skill set, if i play as a warrior it would be cool to be able to use critical agility on that character.

Maybe I'm just saying i'd like them elite status because the ranger ones are so garbage(ok triple shot isn't garbage... its just... dissapointing)... if all the skills become linked to a primary attribute my ranger is left without any SS/kurzick,luxon skills

deadmonkey4u · Jun 17, 2007, 03:38 AM // 03:38

For the most part I like these "PvE" only skills the way they are.

Sun Fired Blank · Jun 17, 2007, 04:13 AM // 04:13

Inger: my apologies, but I meant you should only be able to have one sunspear skill or faction skill on your bar at a given time along with your elite, so that a very abusable combination such as Focused Anger, Save Yourselves!, Spear of Fury, There's Nothing to Fear!, is undoable; you could only take Focused Anger and one of those choices.

Inger · Jun 17, 2007, 05:57 AM // 05:57

ahh ic... well fine having 1 SS and 1 Kurzick/Luxon skill on ur bar is still better than linking to a primary attribute imo

but once again I'm biased simply because I want to be able to use the skills of other classes... the ranger ones are trash(yea triple shot is... just... dissapointing... )

ensoriki · Jun 17, 2007, 06:26 AM // 06:26

awww dammit!
The new assassin skills made me pee myself.

Now...

critical agility, Assassins promise...black lotus strike...twisting fangs...black spi...blah you know whats coming.
Critical agility... death blossom..moebuis strike... jagged strike.. and umm wild strike? and fox fangs? I can constantly spam that right?
jagged wild death moebuis jagged fox fangs death moebuis , death...

anyways this update has made me very happy. Except for the warrior update, its just like.... support. bad support.

wolfren · Jun 17, 2007, 08:29 AM // 08:29

my ranger is 1 of my fav classes and i was thinking of somthing like a devestating nature ritual or a really powerfull bow attack |,( but they had to give us a IAS usable with a pet and a bow skill that can only be used at majorly high alligence rank. just saying seems odd when most of the other classes got somthing nice (sf+GoEP+Intensity+Ele lord anyone?)

arcanemacabre · Jun 17, 2007, 08:35 AM // 08:35

I'm not sure why everyone thinks the warrior one isn't all that great. Think about it, it costs 6a and hits all adjacent foes. If you happen to round up 6 or more enemies, you can continuously attack all adjacent foes with +damage. Add in a conjure or weapon spell, and you have insane DPS.

Mister O · Jun 17, 2007, 08:43 AM // 08:43

W/A: [skill]Primal Rage[/skill] + Critical Agility +[skill]Wild blow[/skill]

Anyone?

Redfeather1975 · Jun 17, 2007, 08:48 AM // 08:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

I'm not sure why everyone thinks the warrior one isn't all that great. Think about it, it costs 6a and hits all adjacent foes. If you happen to round up 6 or more enemies, you can continuously attack all adjacent foes with +damage. Add in a conjure or weapon spell, and you have insane DPS.

I thought that too Arcane, but the skill has a 1 second recharge so that the initial 6 hits won't auto refill it.

arcanemacabre · Jun 17, 2007, 09:00 AM // 09:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redfeather1975

I thought that too Arcane, but the skill has a 1 second recharge so that the initial 6 hits won't auto refill it.

Ahhh, hadn't noticed that. Well that explains a lot. Still, it does a good amount of adrenaline boost for other skills, and something like triple chop/cyclone axe added in can keep the damage coming.

But yeah, I can now see why it's not "OMFGBESTSKILLEVA" or anything, but it's still pretty nice.

Evilsod · Jun 17, 2007, 11:46 AM // 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Loki-

Plain bow damage is crap anyway. Bow damage comes from skills. Triple shots damage comes from, like dual shot, the amount of shit you can stack on top of it. Favourable Winds, a damage preparation, vampiric bow and/or a conjure. Whatever you stack on it, it triggers multiple times. It currently has the same cost and recharge as dual shot, at rank 1 the same damage reduction, but that extra arrow puts out some nice damage with stuff stacked onto it. Now, I'm not saying triple shot is as good as some of the other skills they added (hello Intensity, Eternal Aura, Elemental Lord, "Theres nothing to fear!", etc), but people who say it's weak aren't looking at it in the right light.

Oh i don't know... maybe the fact i was using it along with Glass Arrows and Favourable Winds? I'm not a f*cking idiot. The damage output was still pretty bad. The only way this skill will do more than Dual Shot is if its you are completely overbuffed. I'm talking Orders, Conjures, Glass, FW, Winno, etc. Such thing is only gonna happen with a PvE Ranger spike team... and whats the chances of that. What exactly were they afraid of? They gave the ele a skill that makes them do 25% more damage. Yet rangers get a bow attack that is barely any better than Dual Shot.

Worryingly enough... Critical Agility may indeed be a use for Primal Rage... although considering it still shuts down your entire bar... i doubt it.

Nerfing them so you can only have 1 equipped won't help. They should've balanced them better, like they said they were doing... *cough* bullshit.

Tingi · Jun 17, 2007, 12:14 PM // 12:14

Why are some of you guys complaining about "overpowered" PvE skills? ITS PVE WHO GIVES A SHIT. You guys have good skills to use that won't get nerfed because it will destroy PvP.

And all this crap about instant recharging avatars. Thats a good thing that is not overpowered in PvE.

I understand some people being pissed off about the crap ones, but the good ones why are people complaining? A charr isn't gona come to these forums and complain that you skills are overpowered.

Miral · Jun 17, 2007, 12:17 PM // 12:17

uhh... i think with even just splinter wep and ignite arrows, triple shot can prove quite useful... 3 fire damage blasts... thats 45 fire damage on all adjacent enemies at 12WS... and splinter wep, thats ~90 damage to all adjacent at 8 channeling...
or if you want single target instead of AoE, use kindle arrows and conjure flame. thats ~100-120 damage depending on how you set attributes... plus everything is now fire damage which is resisted less than piercing usually...
add in a vampiric bow and thats 15 lifesteal with each shot as well...
only kinda bad thing is the recharge, but that can be lowered with serpents quickness or quickening zephyr...

might not be the best pve skill, but i think it beats the conditional necro ones hehe. I'll definitely be adding it to my barrage ranger when I play him again.

-Loki- · Jun 17, 2007, 01:20 PM // 13:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Oh i don't know... maybe the fact i was using it along with Glass Arrows and Favourable Winds? I'm not a f*cking idiot. The damage output was still pretty bad. The only way this skill will do more than Dual Shot is if its you are completely overbuffed.

It will do more than dual shot with even one buff on you. At rank 1, it deals the same arrow damage as dual shot (3 arrows doing 50% less damage, compared to 2 arrows doing 25% less damage - both are going to average 150% damage of a normal bow attack). Triple shot has the extra arrow to trigger a buff an extra time. So, with any buff, it's going to out damage dual shot. I never said it was a great skill - I merely said it's an buffed dual shot, still a nice skill to play around with and not as weak as people made it out to be, but nowhere near as powerful as some of the other skills they added. As Miral said, the recharge hurts it, and that would be a great place to buff it. Make it more spammable, and it would make a nice damage skill.

noblepaladin · Jun 17, 2007, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Here are some of my thoughts about the new skills. Mesmers have become even much more undesirable relative to the other classes. Ether Nightmare is a joke. It is basically just the degen part of Searing Flames, if you have high alliance title. If someone wants AoE degen, they will use Searing Flames. Even if it gives -10 degen to all, it probably still won't be that good compared to the massive amounts of AoE other classes have. They should change it to something like an AoE empathy. Cry of pain is decent, usable but not even close to being as good as some of the other classes's new skills. As someone else said, it's virtually spiritual pain (also, it only interrupts one enemy, so it's not a super cry of frustration).

"There's nothing to fear" is probably the strongest skill that got introduced. Stacking this with any AoE damage prevention (other shouts, aegis, wards, etc) and you are near invulnerable.

Rangers and Ritualists didn't get much. The spirit moving skill might lead to many new builds though, although it will take a lot of experimentation. Ritualists can actually use offensive spirits now, but I'm not sure if it is worth doing.

The melee classes got huge boosts in critical agility. The warrior +100 armor shout is insane. Combine critical agility with that and you can keep it up most of the battle.

Elementalist skills are very strong. It seems like ANet is trying to promote Paragon+Elementalist Searing Flames builds, since both of them got huge buffs.

Necros got really crappy skills, but I found that it isn't so bad for them. Mainly because Soul Reaping is still the best e-management in the game despite the recent nerfs. This allows them to use "There's nothing to Fear" freely while the other non-Paragon classes have trouble with the 15e skill.

I feel sad for mesmers, they were all waiting for the Sunspear Skills which would supposedly make them at least on par with the other classes. Now there is even less reason to bring Mesmers. And even though the melee classes got huge boosts, I still think there is no point in using these "tanks". Paragon turns everybody into a tank, Searing Flames is superior in damage.

Du Kor · Jun 17, 2007, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by noblepaladin

The melee classes got huge boosts in critical agility. The warrior +100 armor shout is insane. Combine critical agility with that and you can keep it up most of the battle.

Thats +100 ac for everyone but the warrior who gets nothing. The char with (possibly) initally the most armor, the warrior, is now the least armored of the group. And since this is an adren skill, it means the warrior is in combat and most likely taking damage. This is a buff others skill that more favors a paragon than a warrior. It seems that they wanted to give paragons 3 skills and decided that a warrior wouldnt mind if they gave up a skill that could directly be of use to the warrior.

Theus · Jun 17, 2007, 03:34 PM // 15:34

Who the hell would use "Save Yourselves!" on a warrior?

When you can use it and "There's Nothing to Fear!" on a Paragon with Focused anger?