Curse

Psuedo Halgoen · Jun 16, 2007, 04:53 AM // 04:53

I think that these sunspear and faction based pve only skills should be Primary class specific also. Make the necro skills only apply to a Necro primary, not a warrior/necro secondary.

Just my 2 cents.

Fossa · Jun 16, 2007, 05:18 AM // 05:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

You are correct I was mistaken. I had loaded the skill but had failed to test it. Because the ranger skill does not read "when your pet is equipped" and they fact you can load the skill without it "blanking out" I had assumed wrongly that it would apply without your pet. Its all in the semantics interpretation.

Because you can only use with a pet the skill goes from a 9/10 to a 5/10. Its only half as effective as it could be.

Possible reasons might be to try and discourage the skill from other classes using the IAS plus Pet. It is my sincere hope that this will change later this week, or the description will change.

However Ranger combined with the Assassin Sunspear skill became quite deadly when tested and I could keep it up almost constant. With my Paragon I did keep it up constant when combined with GFTE. It was a better selection than other IAS options for the Paragon.

This only reinforces my hope that Sunspear skills will remain for Primary Classes only to keep the class distinct form other class options.

25 energy is enough to restrict it from most fighting classes, including my ranger. That and the pet requirement. Rather use the assasin IAS, I agree, since that gives you armor as well.

I give it 1/10 due to it's restrictivness, general uselesness and high energy cost. Without doubt the worst of the sunspear skills, many others being gamebreakers.

Chop it Off · Jun 16, 2007, 05:23 AM // 05:23

intensity is just insane. +25% damage to ALL spells, not just ele spells.

so ermm, N/E with necrosis and intensity= one hellova spike.

ima have to agree with the general consensus.

dont nerf the skills, just make them primary class only usable.

Series · Jun 16, 2007, 05:24 AM // 05:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chop it Off

intensity is just insane. +25% damage to ALL spells, not just ele spells.

so ermm, N/E with necrosis and intensity= one hellova spike.

ima have to agree with the general consensus.

dont nerf the skills, just make them primary class only usable.

Yes, that will allow them to be MORE flexible (IE make the ranger skill better, etc.)

some guy · Jun 16, 2007, 05:26 AM // 05:26

Holy crap...

The assassin skill is just purely OPed, I solo jade brother hood knights on hard mode with it...

D8tura · Jun 16, 2007, 06:07 AM // 06:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nebuchadnezzer

Of course it's true. The way GW pve is set up is basically just a huge steamroll. Large groups of stupid monsters that ball up. I think having different skill mechanics for ALL skills in pve and pvp would help alot with balance. PvE'rs want to steamroll everything, let them, until you make monsters *SMART* instead of just attack faster and hit harder, GW pve will always just be a huge steamroll. PvP'rs want structure and balance. They dont like overpowered skills that steamroll things.

So until Anet changes pve from huge mobs of stupid creatues to smaller fights with SMART monsters (NOT DOUBLE EVERYTHING) It seems that the skills will never suit both.

GW pve is very chaotic, very AoE heavy, and all the monsters are stupid and ball up. While GW pvp is much more structured and organized. The idea that skills can work for both of these well seems like just a failure from the start honestly :/

WOW what a pve elitist you forget how many builds on your precious PVP side have changed the game for pve players. while the "balance" on your side might be great, you never consider the ones who hate pvp and BOUGHT the game for pve. You clearly bought the game for pvp and you always get the silver spoon IMHO. Steamrolling? no one wants that or we'd be bored and stop playing.....

play your side and we'll play ours. i love the update, i just want our heroes to get the skills we paid for with HERO POINTS!!!!!!

Kashrlyyk · Jun 16, 2007, 06:07 AM // 06:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. G

once again...poor rits, we get a stationary vamp horror....joy

Take the Luxon/Kurzick skill with you too and you don´t

GodofAcid · Jun 16, 2007, 06:30 AM // 06:30

With 1 patch, they make paragons relevant in pve again. I just went through the Iron Mines mish with henches and heroes, everything but me and the fighter hench were squishies, and spamming that skill along with Watch Yourself, I don't think I saw a single one drop below 50%. They were hard pressed to get down to 75% for that matter. Granted it's not the hardest mission, but I still think that's saying something. Healers didn't really have that much to do

I think this skill has nerf written all over it, but I'm definitely going to enjoy it while it lasts.

It's a nice reward for those who stuck with their paras in pve, since they're one of those classes that gets a bad rap and struggles to find parties, especially later in the game and in DoA. With a spammable 32% damage reduction and a 55 HP party heal every 10 seconds, people will want them now. Great addition Anet.

QoH · Jun 16, 2007, 06:44 AM // 06:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fossa

I give it 1/10 due to it's restrictivness, general uselesness and high energy cost. Without doubt the worst of the sunspear skills, many others being gamebreakers.

Agreed, at least pet restriction should be removed.(+ less energy imo)

Nebuchadnezzer · Jun 16, 2007, 06:50 AM // 06:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by D8tura

WOW what a pve elitist you forget how many builds on your precious PVP side have changed the game for pve players. while the "balance" on your side might be great, you never consider the ones who hate pvp and BOUGHT the game for pve. You clearly bought the game for pvp and you always get the silver spoon IMHO. Steamrolling? no one wants that or we'd be bored and stop playing.....

play your side and we'll play ours. i love the update, i just want our heroes to get the skills we paid for with HERO POINTS!!!!!!

I was sarcastic in the "of course they do" thing.. My point was.. Anet has made the pve you love so much into a steamroll. With one skill set for the two, pvp and pve dont work because they are polar opposites. One is structured one is chaotic. MY suggestions for fixing this is A. Two different skill sets, one for pve one for pvp, Same skills different effects i guess? or B. Change the pve from a steamroll to a more structured enviroment with smarter monsters.

Pwny Ride · Jun 16, 2007, 06:54 AM // 06:54

'Theres Nothing To Fear' is something im taking all the time now. It's like incoming but...better in so many ways

Inger · Jun 16, 2007, 06:57 AM // 06:57

wow rangers totally got the short end of the stick... the sunspear skill is just plain terrible

restricted to when using a pet and an insanely high energy cost... even with a high amount of expertise your looking at using around 15 energy for this skill O_O

i'll have fun with my ele, derv and assassin though... shame my main char, my ranger got shafted with this skill...

Shanaeri Rynale · Jun 16, 2007, 07:17 AM // 07:17

The mesmer skill could do with some rework. I was extensivley testing it last night and have a couple of observations.

The recharge time is too long at 20 seconds., at the moment it pretty much requires AP, an echo or MoR to make it work effectivley. As much as I love these skills a recharge duration would allow me greater flexibility and freedom in builds and also allow this skill to be more useful.

Painting with a hex.
Mesmer skills should have some sort of condition on them, and not just a straight nuke. However having to paint ones target with a hex first increases the energy cost of this skill. I would change the requirement to any hex.

Functionality:
The damage output is great, please dont mess with. However I would extend the functionality to interupt all foes in the area, or even make the foes in the area lose one enchantment. Being able to strip spell breaker from a mob would be a really useful feature.

If the regen time was changed, the condition exdended to all hexes and another effect was added in(aoe interupt, ench removal etc) then this skill would be a total winner.

Ether Nightmare.
I've not got much faction donated so cant comment on how good this skill is at the higher levels.

While an Aoe Degen is a great idea, the scaling is wrong I think. -4 degen is too low as a baseline. With the new skills I doubt many mobs will live longer than the 10s it lasts therefore I would suggest

Buff the degen, or change the functionality to Target for loses 3-6 energy, for each point of energy lost in this way each adjcant ally gains 1 point of energy regeneration. Keep everything else the same.

Or Reduce the recharge time. Again this seems to tie it's use to MoR etc

Summary

As great and wonderful as they are, they cannot compete in terms of damage and pug desirability with an Ele lord+intensity+Glyph of ele power which can boost an ele to over 20 in fire magic.

To end on a positive note, running this skill in an 4+l mesmer team is just insane fun. While this has not, in my mind totally fixed the mesmer in pve it is a huge step forward and thank you

Evilsod · Jun 16, 2007, 09:04 AM // 09:04

The only thing that annoys me about these new skills is that they're practically all pre-nerf skills.

Cry for Pain = Spiritual Pain pre-nerf
Never Rampage Alone = Rampage as One pre-nerf
1 of the necro ones = Discord pre-buff...

While i'm glad they're finally here, i really don't see what took them so long to release almost exact copies of pre-existing skills.

Mr. G · Jun 16, 2007, 09:20 AM // 09:20

Ive gotta say folks, please dont go on the "primary" only route - thats the only way any of these skills make it on my bar

EPO Bot · Jun 16, 2007, 10:01 AM // 10:01

Making it short: The new skills are FOOKIN AWESOME!

Rone · Jun 16, 2007, 10:32 AM // 10:32

I have to agree with the many posts above in that the Ranger skill is terrible. Nice concept (combining self/pet heals with increased attack), but its usable ONLY if you have a pet and ONLY with a high level of expertise. The energy cost is just outrageous.

Why couldn't Rangers get a skill like the Warriors got? Increased damage (melee attack), but NOT restricted to what weapon was used. The Warrior Sunspear skill is usable in Sword, Axe, or Hammer builds.

But to add to the short end, Rangers were given a Kurzick/Luxon skill called Triple Arrow only it gets nerfed in damage. Basically its just Dual Arrow with one more arrow (same energy cost and 25% damage reduction, too).

So why couldn't Rangers get something like "Steel Tips" to increase damage on a few shots or "Persistent Conditions" to increase condition builds like they did with Mesmer hexes or "Rapid Fire" in increase refire rate or instant refire on the next 1 . . . ?? shots wtihout the pet restriction? Or even a NEW bow attack skill like a "Bank Shot" that can shoot around corners (perhaps with a slow recharge like 15 seconds so it can't get spammed).

Overall, most of the other skills looked really nice. But the Ranger . . . I'm majorly disappointed.

Gli · Jun 16, 2007, 10:35 AM // 10:35

Yeah, the ranger got shafted. Luckily, there's a few secondaries that work great on a ranger.

Francis Crawford · Jun 16, 2007, 10:44 AM // 10:44

I don't think most of the Sunspear skills are nearly as awesome in a secondary profession. Some actually require the primary attribute. Others (e.g., the paragon one, the much-maligned ranger one) are expensive skills that however have half or so the effective energy cost if you have a decent investment in the primary attribute.

Necrosis is an exception, but we've already been told a nerf of some kind is on the way.

-Loki- · Jun 16, 2007, 11:11 AM // 11:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

Yeah, the ranger got shafted. Luckily, there's a few secondaries that work great on a ranger.

Yeah, I was looking forward to some nice bow attacks. Triple shot is nice - not stupid overpowered like Intensity or Eternal Aura, but it's nice, and works like an overpowered dual shot. But Never Rampage Alone? Come on Arenanet, give rangers some nice bow skills, if only in PvE.