Curse

Patrick Smit · Jun 17, 2007, 08:33 AM // 08:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andisa Kalorn

People who chose the money over the title did so because they didn't care about the title or controlling a town. They were denied a chance to choose between the money and the skills, however. This is where the unfairness is.

How can they be denied a choice when they have chosen something? This is paradoxical. U can only say that you didnt have all the information, neither did the ones that went for the title. All have chosen and have to live with the consequences. They chose material gain over a title, and now they want both? So people who FFed dont get the amber or gold retroactively (i want it like with a put option at the price back then before it dropped).

Comeon be realistic and start working on the title now, we dont complain that Kurzicks have it so much easier with the numerous FF quests which are more simple then luxon ones? (not all get titles by ABing)

It like with the lucky title, currently very handy, but i could have had more if I chose to spend money on it in the early days, when it was still a worthless title. Same with chests. Live with youyr choices.

bilateralrope · Jun 17, 2007, 11:23 AM // 11:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Smit

How can they be denied a choice when they have chosen something? This is paradoxical. U can only say that you didnt have all the information, neither did the ones that went for the title. All have chosen and have to live with the consequences. They chose material gain over a title, and now they want both? So people who FFed dont get the amber or gold retroactively (i want it like with a put option at the price back then before it dropped).

Before the update most people had a choice between working on a useless title or getting a small amount of gold, and the people in the holding alliances get to also earn gold because they hold a town. So tell me how choosing to spend on a title that isn't recognized as showing skill is the logical choice given what we knew before the update.

Quote:

Comeon be realistic and start working on the title now, we dont complain that Kurzicks have it so much easier with the numerous FF quests which are more simple then luxon ones? (not all get titles by ABing)

It like with the lucky title, currently very handy, but i could have had more if I chose to spend money on it in the early days, when it was still a worthless title. Same with chests. Live with youyr choices.

Before the update, the only titles that directly effected your ability to help a group were the sunspear (from the signet) and lightbringer titles. The lucky, treasure hunter, wisdom only effected how much gold you could earn.

But my main complaint here is that people who put in equal work, but made the more logical chose given what they knew are screwed over in favor of people who didn't. And then to further inflame things ANET decides that the same actions now count towards the title.

greenthumb · Jun 17, 2007, 11:30 AM // 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Smit

How can they be denied a choice when they have chosen something? This is paradoxical. U can only say that you didnt have all the information, neither did the ones that went for the title. All have chosen and have to live with the consequences. They chose material gain over a title, and now they want both? So people who FFed dont get the amber or gold retroactively (i want it like with a put option at the price back then before it dropped).

There is a difference between simply having such a "choice" and being able to make an informed rational decision.

This is a common issue with MMORPGs over a long period of time. Game changes are eventually made to aspects of the game in the long run, to enhance, for balance reasons, etc. Often the choices that players made and are stuck with do not seem fair since there is now new information available which wasn't available at the time of their earlier decision.

In GW, for char skills and attributes, this isn't an issue since players can reassign everything in a town/outpost (when players can't do something like that as in many other games, often skill nerfs and updates cause major outrage).

In GW, with the level cap, the acquisition of titles has become a form of acquiring and displaying experience within the game. By adding new benefits long after the titles are in place and after players made their decision on which titles to acquire, ANet is creating certain "haves" and "have-nots" with respect to the new benefits, but there is a justified feeling of unfairness since that information was not available to them at the time of their decision. It is not regarded as a level-playing field with respect to the new benefits. Those who invested in these titles don't deserve these new benefits either since that wasn't even a factor in the decision to pursue those titles. It's a windfall bonus.

For the sake of improving the game, situations like this may eventually occur. ANet could simply have opted not to provide for such new Luxon/Kurzick PvE skills avoiding such an issue.

To the extent that ANet can reasonably address such an issue, ANet should consider doing so. ANet's more dedicated customers are probably ones who have earned a lot of Kurzick/Luxon faction, and ANet does keep track of such information. To turn a blind eye to that with respect to this release given that no one had this information previously to base their decision on how to spend faction, it's just not rational on the part of ANet. ANet should have anticipated such a situation would arise.

Miral · Jun 17, 2007, 11:39 AM // 11:39

I just pose this question: how does it hurt people who have the title if everyone who has done sufficient work is given the skills? and by sufficient work I don't mean farmed a title for weeks on end. I mean something like, completed the factions campaign, or gotten protector of cantha. something that actually means something other than "hey look at me i have too much free time".

Sunspear skills are usable by anyone who has finished any significant part of the nightfall campaign, and just a bit stronger for those that put in extra effort. Factions skills should be the same way for factions owners.

william1975 · Jun 17, 2007, 12:07 PM // 12:07

I don't think that anet should start to make things retroactive, and I agree with the few in this post that say it is those people being greedy, if they weren't interested in getting the title then they shouldn't complain.

I'm a title chaser and have been on and off chasing both the Luxon and Kurzick titles, I'm not in a huge guild that owns towns, and I'm the only one that farms this way in my guild, before this update all i got from the faction transfer was points to my title, I gained no benfit, no gold, other than getting further along in my title,

I do not see why this should be implemented, I don't want to be given 400 amber just because i chose to transfer faction for title but now could have transfered for skills and amber as well as get the title, I see none of those supporting the OP's idea have even suggested this, which goes to show how greedy and selfish a request this is.

My luxon title if this was implemented would jump up a good 40k as in my previous guild i was unable to transfer to luxon so had to take Jade instead. However much this addition to my title would be useful I don't want it. Things change and this is a change for the better, I don't need any retroactive implementations, neither does anyone else. As usual players are whining about a great update, and instead of being grateful are complaining that they should be getting more

/unsigned

JeniM · Jun 17, 2007, 12:09 PM // 12:09

MIRAL your a genius
Thats the best plan once you make Protector of Cantha your faction is given back as thanks as lets face it endgame greens aint worth the work

My Exhulted Aegis = Sold
i now use Shield of the Lion for 3 reasons
Same Stats
Dyeable
NOT a horrible skin like the endgame aegis - Worst skin ever if your not into graves as lets face it thats what it looks like some kind of tomb decoration

Lonesamurai · Jun 17, 2007, 12:22 PM // 12:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vilaptca

I find myself most upset about this because of ONE thing.

Miscommunication.

If we had been told that we would be receiving PvE skills based on this title track, even but a month ago. I wouldn't be griping now. I would have worked on the title that I had previously thought worthless.

I believe that many others would have too.

/seconded

i never had any intention of getting the "friend of..." title, no, I have to get it to get these skills? (although are the skills nessecary? no, but its useful to have them)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeniM

MIRAL your a genius
Thats the best plan once you make Protector of Cantha your faction is given back as thanks as lets face it endgame greens aint worth the work

My Exhulted Aegis = Sold
i now use Shield of the Lion for 3 reasons
Same Stats
Dyeable
NOT a horrible skin like the endgame aegis - Worst skin ever if your not into graves as lets face it thats what it looks like some kind of tomb decoration

Personally, i think the exalted Aegis is the prettiest shield skin out there... /my opinion

Miral · Jun 17, 2007, 12:22 PM // 12:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeniM

MIRAL your a genius
Thats the best plan once you make Protector of Cantha your faction is given back as thanks as lets face it endgame greens aint worth the work

My Exhulted Aegis = Sold
i now use Shield of the Lion for 3 reasons
Same Stats
Dyeable
NOT a horrible skin like the endgame aegis - Worst skin ever if your not into graves as lets face it thats what it looks like some kind of tomb decoration

ya it could even still be scaled... purchasable when you complete the campaign, then get stronger for each mission you have masters on. 12 missions, 12 ranks of allegiance titles. fits perfectly!

and hey, it even syncs well with the original intent of PvE skills to make hard mode more survivable post-nerfs... finish campaign in normal mode, you get access to hardmode along with new skills to use in it...

Miral · Jun 17, 2007, 12:28 PM // 12:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

/seconded
Personally, i think the exalted Aegis is the prettiest shield skin out there... /my opinion

its a good gothic design, fits well with kurzicks, bit odd for luxon...

Lonesamurai · Jun 17, 2007, 12:31 PM // 12:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

its a good gothic design, fits well with kurzicks, bit odd for luxon...

Aye, looks great on my samurai Warrior, with his katana, although I still can't decide on which armour would be best, currently in Tyrian

Miral · Jun 17, 2007, 12:43 PM // 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

Aye, looks great on my samurai Warrior, with his katana, although I still can't decide on which armour would be best, currently in Tyrian

samurai... hmm, 15k templar, 15k canthan, elite sunspear, or ancient

i'd probably go with elite sunspear dyed gold.

Lonan is in primeval with exalted aegis and a forgotten sword, that works quite well

noblepaladin · Jun 17, 2007, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

I just pose this question: how does it hurt people who have the title if everyone who has done sufficient work is given the skills? and by sufficient work I don't mean farmed a title for weeks on end. I mean something like, completed the factions campaign, or gotten protector of cantha. something that actually means something other than "hey look at me i have too much free time".

Sunspear skills are usable by anyone who has finished any significant part of the nightfall campaign, and just a bit stronger for those that put in extra effort. Factions skills should be the same way for factions owners.

Yeah, I agree with this. The Luxon/Kurzick titles are simply too much grind. Just by simply playing the game, you will probably reach level 8 Sunspear by the end of NF, so the difference between the "elite" with level 10 is not big (also, it just takes a few hours to get to level 10 in hard mode).

I don't really care that much about retroactive titles, I don't have much faction at all (although I have a reason to start farming now). But the logic that people who got amber don't deserve the title is wrong. People had two choices before this patch came out, to get amber (for some personal gain) or to contribute to alliance (which could result in exclusive access to elite mission and/or discount merchant). The same logic could apply backwards, why should the guy who made ridiculous amounts of money ferrying or reselling lockpicks through the discount merchant get to have a significant advantage over the people in small guilds that don't hold towns (these guys never contribute to alliance, since there is no point unless you can get a town)? Personally, I'd prefer it if they made a new thing that is similar to sunspear or lightbringer and make it easier to get the skills or at least to get the skills up to a high level quicker.

Clone · Jun 17, 2007, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Basically, I just don't like this idea at all. Most of the people here are posting because they think they've already farmed enough for the new skills. I don't think should need to farm to get skills in the first place. Way to abandon your skill over time spent paradigm anet.

Woutsie · Jun 17, 2007, 03:44 PM // 15:44

/signed but I don't think Anet can add up the faction spent on amber/jade

Navaros · Jun 17, 2007, 03:49 PM // 15:49

This reminds me of when Survivor first was put into the game and 100% of everyone's original main characters were screwed over without the chance of getting it since they didn't know beforehand their deaths would be held against them. Anet didn't do anything to stop screwing over those beloved original characters and give them an equal opportunity at earning Survivor. I don't see why Faction amber/jade traders should get more special treatment than Survivor title seekers who never had a chance to get Survivor on their old main character.

Lonesamurai · Jun 17, 2007, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clone

Way to abandon your skill over time spent paradigm anet.

but it doesn't, as this doesn't affect pvp in any way shape or form, these are put in SPECIFICALLY for those that like to farm and spend time on this sort of thing

AlienFromBeyond · Jun 17, 2007, 04:02 PM // 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

This reminds me of when Survivor first was put into the game and 100% of everyone's original main characters were screwed over without the chance of getting it since they didn't know beforehand their deaths would be held against them. Anet didn't do anything to stop screwing over those beloved original characters and give them an equal opportunity at earning Survivor. I don't see why Faction amber/jade traders should get more special treatment than Survivor title seekers who never had a chance to get Survivor on their old main character.

Some of us are still pissed off at the Survivor title

.

unienaule · Jun 17, 2007, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Survivor title is still stupid for old characters.

The new skills are not screwing over skill vs. time spent. You can totally OMGWTFBBQPWN PvE without any of these skills. Can you do it better now? Yes. But is it required to win at PvE? Definitely not, see examples of people beating Thunderhead Keep with no skills.

ravensong · Jun 17, 2007, 04:25 PM // 16:25

I really want this to happen..tough i doubt it will too...

Tactical-Dillusions · Jun 17, 2007, 05:20 PM // 17:20

I would gladly pay back the amber for the 100k faction that i haven't benefited from, but as a last resort to seeing Anet change this situation.

I was happy back in the day when my character suddenly received 56 skill points for nothing and likewise will be equally happy when i wake up one day to find a little note saying i don't have to spend X days grinding over and over to achieve a rank1 title which i otherwise wouldn't give a flying f*** about.