Curse

Sergeant of Marines · Jun 22, 2007, 03:20 AM // 03:20

I would have to agree and disagree with the attitude of that person...

Yes, the noob could have asked questions and listened And the ahole that kicked him/left group could have been a bit more patient, but in their defense DoA is called an ellite mission for a reason and most of the time you really dont feel like taking extra time doing stuff in their besides the obvious 4 quests to lead up to the citadel.

I do DoA alot by some people's standards and I am open to "noobs" joining the party, if they listen to the exp of the players that have done it many times over. I usually use vent for those kinda areas (urgoz/deep/DoA) so that could have solved the problem before it stated and it sometimes adds to alot more enjoyment doing the quests...just rambaling here but you get the point

Navaros · Jun 22, 2007, 03:31 AM // 03:31

I never played in DoA after the first night it came out, but I would imagine that anyone newbie enough to make a major mistake like the one in the original post would likewise handicap the team in many other ways too due to him having absolutely no clue what to expect in any aspect of DoA the party will be coming across.

In any case, there is good reason for elitism in Guild Wars, it's so that good players' time isn't wasted like in the example in the original post.

Bad/unknowledgable players who want to learn can and should ask for lessons from people who want to devote their time to giving lessons on their own time. Not be wasting the time of good players who are at that moment playing to succeed.

//RogueNine · Jun 22, 2007, 05:41 AM // 05:41

All you can do is laugh at people that think that spending an extraordinary amount of time on a video game makes them special.

Granted the player in the OP should have listened, and I would be pretty pee'd off if that happened in my group. However, alot of people that think they are 'good' and esp those of them that play monks, think that they somehow command the groups will.

The elitism is pretty annoying in GW and definately detracts from the game. I mean we all play to have fun so why do you have to try and degrade someone else trying to have fun? Oh well thats what happens when the game is free and 12 year olds can play all day without having to spend mom or dads money on WoW.

Shuuda · Jun 22, 2007, 06:59 AM // 06:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

Wow... this thread is funny. Shuuda gave me some advice:
I should get actual proof before I call someone a bad player next time.

Just helping you out there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by //RogueNine

All you can do is laugh at people that think that spending an extraordinary amount of time on a video game makes them special.

Yeah, most certainly, what a nice laugh it is watch someone get into a hissy fit when you denounce their leetness. Recently in a mission outpost, a ranger enter flashing his wolf and claimed he "Owned this place" he started wisping meanie words when I had a laugh at him. I got the screenshot of it, but cba to post it.

klrk · Jun 22, 2007, 07:26 AM // 07:26

new player should learn
and when i was new , i listened to my teammates
he/she done a stupid mistake for not listening *some thought they're pro and they keep insisting to accept quests or done what we warned him/her *

lutz · Jun 22, 2007, 07:37 AM // 07:37

Maybe I'm repeating some other people, but...

This has abasolutely nothing to do with elitism; if the party leader was elitist, the elementalist would never have been in the party in the first place. In fact, the party leader gave the person a chance, and the person clearly screwed up. When you are doing something for the first time, you don't tune out on things - you listen very clearly to the party leader, as it's not just a run for items or quests, but moreso a learning experience. Sure, people make mistakes, but when it's a screw-up as blatant like this one, and even when the party leader SPECIFICIALLY TOLD the person not to take the quest, and they did anyway, it's either a question of uncooperativeness, or plain stupidity.

I would have kicked the elementalist from the party also - if they acted like that so early in the mission (I believe the unlimited hordes of things is what you're talking about), who knows what they might do later? They'll probably aggro some popups on one of the Stygian Lords, or aggro the popups on the hill, causing someone to force to res them, and then eventually get themselves killed, then the chain of deaths, etc, etc.

This isn't elitism, it's called common sense. If you have someone who doesn't agree with you, and are requiring agreement to finish a job, and you had a choice, would you work with the person who doesn't listen, or would you work with someone else who will or will not listen (thereby giving you a chance)? I'd frankly have the chance.

Moloch Vein · Jun 22, 2007, 09:07 AM // 09:07

This is all about the difference between "newbies" and "noobs".

A newbie is anyone new to the game or the area. A noob is one who refuses to listen, who believes they are right when they have no clue, who get people killed for these reasons, etc.

If this were an example of something happening in, say, a Deep Normal Mode run, where people were being honest about not being experienced, I'd say forget it... you didn't know what you were doing.

However, this is what I see in Hard Mode Deep runs every single day. People join, lie about having done the area before, lie about knowing what to do, get themselves into a _HARD MODE_ run and get themselves and their entire party killed. They refuse to listen even if you tell them twenty times. You ask for them politely to put away their wands. They don't. You tell them why they have to put away their wands. They don't. You repeat the request. They ignore you. The nightmares nuke half the team. You repeat the request. Still they ignore you.

These kinds of experiences tend to make people intolerant.

BSSuperman · Jun 22, 2007, 09:49 AM // 09:49

IMO the monk was a snotty 14yr who is supremely convinced of his godliness because he's in an elite area. So the Ele frigged up by taking the mission, but wth the team lost, what, 2 minutes of their lives while the town screen reloaded as they zoned back into town.

This 'I will not play with you because you are a noob/newbie/not upto my level' attitude is what is killing this game. (And plz dont start going on about what in your opinion is really 'killing' this game) A lot of people have forgotten that Guild Wars PvE was actually designed to be a team outing.

The heroes buggered up that notion good and proper. /backontrack

I can understand people getting peeved if they got wiped 1 hour into an elite mission because someone did something blantantly stupid, but FGS just start again.

RazorFire · Jun 22, 2007, 10:35 AM // 10:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

About 2 months ago i did my last Urgoz trip... we got all the way to the final room with the Wolves/Drinker popups. After completely ignoring what i said about the casters staying OUT of the room, especially the monks/rit... they moved in to collect some worthless f*cking loot, doors closed. Well i tried to keep it together... Tell everyone to group up on the same spot so the few dust traps we have will save us... so what happens? Couple of morons start kiting the Thorn Wolves and lure about 5 mobs down on top of us when they trigger loads more popups.

I remember this incident as I was one of the other rangers in the group. I havent attempted Urgoz since either as I was too disgusted with the wasted effort, neither have I joined a PUG since, mainly stuck to PvEing with my guildies. Elitism should be frowned upon but the bottom line is, if you havent done an area before, you listen to instructions from the guys that have. If you don't and it causes a party wipe, don't expect people to be complementary about it, and don't expect another invite any time soon.

A party wipe caused by ignorance 4 minutes in isnt so bad as a restart is possible, as long as you pay the next platinum if required, but 4 or 5 hours into an elite mission really hurts all involved.

SotiCoto · Jun 22, 2007, 11:23 AM // 11:23

Bad example.... of a prevalent problem.

Elitism IS rampant in Guild Wars.... but that isn't it. What you're dealing with there are two other issues:
#1. Idiots not listening to advice ... i.e. the Elementalist.
#2. Sheep mentality... i.e. the other tards all leaving you in unison at the end.

But that aside.... yes... Elitism is sickeningly prevalent in Guild Wars.
The key problem is that you can't escape it. PvPers for some moronic reason think they're better or "more skilled" than PvEers when all they do is spend their time playing tag in virtual playgrounds. DoA / UW / Warren / Deep farmers think they're better than everyone else because they have more money and more glowy weapons from spending their whole time going through rote motions to exploit "elite" areas (and with that name, A-Net are actively encouraging their delusions of grandeur). Fast Faction Farmers and rampant Alliance Battlers think they're better than everyone else because they have access to little back-areas at some out-of-the-way outpost. Heck.... even some of the piss-poor wammos think they're better than me because they PuG and I use Heroes...

There is just no getting away from it.
The only thing you can do is accept that the opinions of other people aren't worth the pixels they're expressed in and just get by in the game with as little interaction with strangers as possible...... much like "real life"...

Kakumei · Jun 22, 2007, 11:31 AM // 11:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

The only thing you can do is accept that the opinions of other people aren't worth the pixels they're expressed in and just get by in the game with as little interaction with strangers as possible...... much like "real life"...

You're so deep and misunderstood. You go ahead and tell off all those sheep. Laugh at me because I'm different, laugh at you because you're all the same, et cetera.

Regarding the so-called "elitism": I'm honestly shocked at the attitude in this thread. In the past, Guru's opinion has always been overwhelmingly kind to morons, but now you guys have the right opinion.

I'm so proud.

Seriously, "elitism" exists to make sure you don't waste your time with idiots.

SotiCoto · Jun 22, 2007, 11:50 AM // 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

You're so deep and misunderstood. You go ahead and tell off all those sheep. Laugh at me because I'm different, laugh at you because you're all the same, et cetera.

Your hokey sarcasm tricks no work on me!

*Smack*

Quote:

Regarding the so-called "elitism": I'm honestly shocked at the attitude in this thread. In the past, Guru's opinion has always been overwhelmingly kind to morons, but now you guys have the right opinion.

I'm so proud.

Seriously, "elitism" exists to make sure you don't waste your time with idiots.

This isn't about idiocy.
Idiocy IS grounds for dismissing people.
The Elitism in Guild Wars is based on little more than lifestyle choice.
It is one thing to be biased against those who are consistant failures at what they are trying to do... but to be biased against them just because they choose to be doing something different or even simply because they haven't built up the experience portfolio yet (assuming they're willing to learn) is just bloody ridiculous.
The prime example of this is the HA-tards who come into places like Haus Zu Heltzer (personal spelling) and spam their freakin rank emotes all over the place... and even go so far as to claim some position of authority in an area that has absolutely nothing to do with them nor their way of play. Like I said the last time I saw one of those: If they want to throw their glowy wolf or bambi around, they can bloody well fvck off back to PvP land where it matters, as in a PvE hub it is as welcome as a black man at a KKK gathering.

Big_Iron · Jun 22, 2007, 12:42 PM // 12:42

I got a little taste of this last night. Me and some alliance members were getting together to do some FoW last night, but we got a monk from outside the Alliance. Anyway, members were trickling in and it was the usual balanced team for FoW. One of the last members to join was a tank and we already had one. The non-alliance monk goes, “two tanks?” The overall response was, “and what’s your point?” Then he goes, “I don’t do FoW with two tanks.” Before anyone could say a word, *poof*, he was gone. I mean, what the hell? This idiot knows one cookie cutter build and he’s too good to go with us? And for the record, we got another monk and did FoW with our two tanks and breezed through.

SotiCoto · Jun 22, 2007, 12:55 PM // 12:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by WoodyDotNet

I got a little taste of this last night. Me and some alliance members were getting together to do some FoW last night, but we got a monk from outside the Alliance. Anyway, members were trickling in and it was the usual balanced team for FoW. One of the last members to join was a tank and we already had one. The non-alliance monk goes, “two tanks?” The overall response was, “and what’s your point?” Then he goes, “I don’t do FoW with two tanks.” Before anyone could say a word, *poof*, he was gone. I mean, what the hell? This idiot knows one cookie cutter build and he’s too good to go with us? And for the record, we got another monk and did FoW with our two tanks and breezed through.

You do Fissure of Woe with a full human team? o_0;
Furthermore... you actually take warriors with you?! o_0;;

... I suppose if it works then fair enough... but I honestly don't see any point in trying to gather together a set of 8 humans when 2 humans and 6 heroes will usually do better in there.

Alex Morningstar · Jun 22, 2007, 01:07 PM // 13:07

I do fissure with a full, 8 member team (including pugs!) as a matter of principle. It's one of the areas of the game I will pug ever single time, because I can. The people I regularly FoW with can survive with a few retarded pugs, we consider being able to do areas like Fissure in spite of pugs successfully to be one of many measures of gameplay skill.

As for the rest, it isn't elitism to be annoyed when someone in your group either refuses to or is too retarded to listen to a simple request like "Do not take this quest". Especially when your group wipes as a direct result. I don't think it is asking too much to ask people in your group to pay attention to their surroundings. If they are new to the area, one would think they would have been doing that anyway.

arcanemacabre · Jun 22, 2007, 01:15 PM // 13:15

I take back what I said earlier. Elitism is nothing to be mad about. It's a pretty common behavior, actually. It's easier to dismiss people right out than give them help, and these poor people need our help. They're obviously crying for attention because they don't get enough respect and attention in the real world. I feel bad for these internet elitists, and my previous post would only wound them further. I apologize.

Big_Iron · Jun 22, 2007, 01:33 PM // 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

You do Fissure of Woe with a full human team? o_0;
Furthermore... you actually take warriors with you?! o_0;;

... I suppose if it works then fair enough... but I honestly don't see any point in trying to gather together a set of 8 humans when 2 humans and 6 heroes will usually do better in there.

*Tap* *Tap* *Tap* I think my sarcasm detector may be on the fritz. You did see that this wasn't a just a PuG, right? It was a planned Alliance trip with one or two non-alliance members. We actually had two Alliance groups go last night.

jrk247 · Jun 22, 2007, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Welcome to teh Interwebz!!!1

Elitism = Immaturity

That is all it really comes down to, the majority of people that are "elitists" are usually too young/immature to realise that it's just a game, and the tinted window of the internet protects them.

Big_Iron · Jun 22, 2007, 01:58 PM // 13:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrk247

Welcome to teh Interwebz!!!1

Elitism = Immaturity

That is all it really comes down to, the majority of people that are "elitists" are usually too young/immature to realise that it's just a game, and the tinted window of the internet protects them.

QFT!! This is dead-on accurate.

Charr · Jun 22, 2007, 02:06 PM // 14:06

I see many of you say that the monks behavior is normal because the guy didn't lisen and casused party wipe, but he did so not even one minute after we left the outpost so it was no problem do simply do it again, and give the guy a second chance, if for the second time you see the signs of such behavior simply rezone, kick him, and take another nuker.
They should have given the guy a second chance and not acting like he just ruined 2 hours of game.
Also I see many say he sould have been honest about doing DoA the first time, like for exmaple I was in first 3-4 groups I was accepted in, but only the thing is when I said I was doing DoA for the first time I was told that they can't go with a guy that is tanking that area for the first time (we were doing NM) and got kicked.

P.S.:Let me just quote the monks words when the nuker expresed him regret regarding him taking the quest:
"I know you will mess it up at the tendrils because it's in your nOOb nature"