Curse

darktyco · Jun 17, 2007, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aphraelyn

Now, there wouldn't be that thread and the other 1000 threads like it if they hadn't added hard mode for free, now would there?

I don't know why people continue to respond to you as if you actually had a relevant argument, but now you are just trolling.

Kinn · Jun 17, 2007, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Letting heroes use these insanely cheap skills would be idiotic, and for a lot of PvE'ers, I am certain it would remove any incentive left to actually get together with real people.

I hate heroes enough as it is. I always PUG whenever possible - I enjoy interaction with actual humans and the sense of team accomplishment when we win, and yes, even the randomness of it.

I would hate to see PUGs slowly start to die off just because anyone who's done Nightfall or grinded for faction now has a perma-party of godlike automatons at their every beck and call.

darktyco · Jun 17, 2007, 10:34 PM // 22:34

Whether or not heroes can use these skills I will still only very rarely pug, especially in normal mode. All of the missions on normal mode (yes, including the RoT missions) are already easy for me with heroes, so I don't need other human players for them with or without the new skills.

But finding a group to go play the game in HM is just too difficult, and that is why I would like it if heroes could have them. Even if heroes could use them only in hard mode I would be happy.

gg-gl-hf · Jun 17, 2007, 10:39 PM // 22:39

Definitely /notsigned, because it would be another nail in the coffin for social interaction in the game. And for me that's one (if not the main) reason why I play online games.

Apollo33 · Jun 17, 2007, 11:26 PM // 23:26

I agree that it'd effectively render PUGs useless... But I recently had some experience with PUGs and can say that some are great. In one PUG, we missed master's in Raisu by a minute and easily got master's against Shiro. In another, it seemed like the Monks must have had Heal Area... And other members had vampiric weapons and they wouldn't switch out of them while outside of battle... Thus they kept losing health when we weren't even in battle. Needless to say, we were pwned by some titans in Hell's Precipice.

I later went through it with my guild and we had no problem. I must agree with those that say PUGs are unattractive because of the bad PUGs, not because of heroes.

Not to mention that it'll be very hard to find a PUG willing to vanquish an area. I actually haven't seen many people in towns asking about doing so. In terms of vanquishing, I'd love these skills on my heroes... However, I would still love doing missions with my guild (even if heroes could use the skills). They're great to play with.

In my opinion, if you want social interaction in GW, get a great guild.

strcpy · Jun 18, 2007, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Pugs died around the release of Factions - the only time they live is immediately after release. The new players want veterans to help them and if you are a decent player you quickly get ahead of the bad players meaning most of your PUGS are decent. But then the outposts are VERY different socially then also - it was interesting watching the differences if you could make it to the end missions within the first week.

Heroes have nothing to do with it, we play games to have fun. PUG's are not fun for the vast majority of gamers. Spreading the misery to AI players isn't going to suddenly make PUG's attractive - it will drive people away from the game.

Look at the posts here - the ones wanting their heroes to have the skills are NOT going suddenly form groups because humans can have them. The only people that think (and IMO it is more hope) it may are the ones who hate the AI and want only human groups. If you make the majority of gamers feel crapped on they aren't going to go play what they feel is even crappier - they leave. That's not to say they will *never* PUG, but if you make their normal mode of play not fun they aren't going to experiment and goof off in others. In fact, it is quickly apparent that they *reduce* PUG'ing - too many "rank X or better only", even though I have max SS and one off max LB I can assure you that I do not want to socially interact with that group..

As I have said before, higher numbers playing the game benefit everyone. Sure, there will be WAY more people with 8's floating above their heads that are only AI, however those people will PUG from time to time when they have nothing better to do (I do sometimes, though almost every time I do it just reaffirms why I hate them).

For some reason a large glut of people want to tell others how to have fun and force their play on everyone. Unfortunately for that idea, there is always the "leave" choice. The more options you give gamers to play the more people you are likely to have playing, cutting out (or only giving one play style something) isn't a short *or* long term viable strategy. At some point I think Anet will figure this out and allow more hench/hero play options - you can not force people to play the game in the manner you want.

Evilsod · Jun 18, 2007, 03:13 AM // 03:13

Letting heros use these skills would make things even easier... I'd just run everything with Mesmer secondary for Cry of Pain and bring along a Morgahn armed to the teeth with PvE only defensive shouts.

There actually has to be a reason to team up with real people you know.

The Legg · Jun 18, 2007, 05:32 AM // 05:32

The PUG is dead, RIP the PUG.

Not only do we want these skills on our heros but we also should be able to have the raisu palace skills on our heros bar when in the mission. Just leave an open slot on their bars and when you get your skills their skill will be put on as well.

Seriously people PVE PUGs just provide way to much heartache for most experienced people these days. The more we bring heros in line with actual players the better.

strcpy · Jun 18, 2007, 07:07 AM // 07:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

There actually has to be a reason to team up with real people you know.

Ok, these skills have been out in the wild now for a few days and are obviously quite good - is there a wave of people looking to PUG or has it stayed pretty much the same? There has been MORE than enough time for a change to occur and if it hasn't by now it isn't likely going to suddenly pick up on Monday or Tuesday (weekend being the largest amount of play time).

In my experience no difference, well except that the many of the groups forming now have something else to add in for elitism. People are only grouping in missions where you need more team coordination than the AI can provide (say, splitting you team up and needing each one to work independently or where you have one runner and the rest of the team as a distraction - neither scenario is affected at all by the skills either).

I would reluctantly agree if it did increase PUG'ing - I would prefer all types of play be around, but so far the system seems to have made one group of players (and by far the largest group) angry in an effort to make another group momentarily feel better but have no effect. PUG's are dead because the way PUG's work, adding in some skills isn't going to help.

darktyco · Jun 20, 2007, 03:19 PM // 15:19

strcpy, I agree. With or without these skills I'm still not going to PuG (except when I feel masochistic), and from what I know about a lot of the people who play this game I can tell there are many more who feel the same way. Why should we be restricted from playing the game the way we want to play it?

Rothen Kithkanan · Jun 20, 2007, 03:57 PM // 15:57

a big fat not signed. Didn't think heroes have a sunspear ranking, so how can they use sunspear skills?

Vahn Roi · Jun 20, 2007, 04:04 PM // 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rothen Kithkanan

a big fat not signed. Didn't think heroes have a sunspear ranking, so how can they use sunspear skills?

my thoughts exactly.

acidic · Jun 20, 2007, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Pugs has been bad because we cannot kick players out of a party once in the game. This is the natural downside of instances. Halfway through the mission there will always be jerks that go afk and leech off the rest of the players. And there is no recourse other than to complete the mission or leave and regroup and HOPE that no jerk joins again and lose the time spent on the first try.

As of right now, you wait hours to just get people together, then only later find out that half the players are terrible or plain leeches. Experienced players does not want to waste time to deal with this.

Imo, it would boost pug popularity among experienced players if somehow we can remove players in the game through a vote and/or allow adding players while inside an instance.

Delta_24 · Jun 20, 2007, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rothen Kithkanan

a big fat not signed. Didn't think heroes have a sunspear ranking, so how can they use sunspear skills?

Since when did they have a Lightbringer rank? They don't, but they still gain the bonus from the title when it is selected to be shown by a player. Granted, they still don't have the LB skills, but I think that they should and it should correspond to the player's rank, who is able to control the heroes.

darktyco · Jun 20, 2007, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Heroes have a Lightbringer ranking, it just matches your own. I fail to see why this could not be the case for Sunspear ranks as well.

scrinner · Jun 20, 2007, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by darktyco

Yes please allow heroes to use these as primary. I hardly ever pug (since it is almost always a disaster) and would like to have my heroes use these, especially for HM. Not letting heroes use these is not going to increase my chances of going with a PuG.

/Signed for the same reason. here i was thinking they Could use them :O

rezabm · Jun 20, 2007, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Some of heroes are actually Sunspears, I mean Koss, Dunkoro, Melonni so I don't see why at least they could not use sunspear skills. By the way I think that Margrid should be able to use Corsair's Net skill

/signed

Bryant Again · Jun 20, 2007, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rothen Kithkanan

Didn't think heroes have a sunspear ranking, so how can they use sunspear skills?

Using that logic, there should be no reason for Dunkoro to be restricted from using them.

SpeedyKQ · Jun 20, 2007, 08:52 PM // 20:52

/not signed.

The skills are overpowered and the game is easy enough.

IMO the game was a lot more fun when the average player was more effective than the average bot, and kicking a hench and adding a real person to your group actually increased your chances of success. Anything that brings us closer to that is a good thing in my book.

Toxic J · Jun 20, 2007, 09:30 PM // 21:30

I would have these pve-only skills disabled for normal mode because seriously, NM doesn't need them. However I would have them enabled for both heroes and real players in HM. I'd like to do HM with real players but really, did you people ever try getting a group together for that?

It seems to me everybody against this is thinking of NM and how easy that is. Well, the only time I get a group for HM is within my alliance which is cool and all but I can't expect them all to jump everytime I want them to just so I can do a mission on HM that they've already done.