Curse

countesscorpula · Jun 24, 2007, 12:13 AM // 00:13

Hey Folks,

I just came out of my second Jade Quarry match. It's actually pretty fun. And though my guild is Kurzick, I was playing on the luxon side because there are fewer players over there. In Fact, atm, there are about 20+ players in kurzick loading area, and only 4 in Luxon. Is that because there are more Kurzick players than luxon players?

Anyhoo, it would be nice to see more people there. It's really a good mission,

The Hand Of Death · Jun 24, 2007, 12:54 AM // 00:54

There seem to be more kurzic players than there are luxon players. As for the Jade Quarry, I do go and visit it a couple of times, but I haven't played it more than five times since I played it during the preview. I am happy I got time in for playing at the preview or I would have never been able to play it as much as I have.

Spazzer · Jun 24, 2007, 01:21 AM // 01:21

Jade Quarry would be more popular if everyone could play Kurzick.

Seriously, though. It should be avoided at all costs until the exploit is fixed. However, like all bugs that favor Kurz side, don't expect it to be fixed any time soon. Hooray for faction bias.

Series · Jun 24, 2007, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Very fun but the kurzick exploit kind of ruins it- for both sides. Long waits for the Kurz and imbalance against the lux.

Hyper.nl · Jun 24, 2007, 01:54 AM // 01:54

I managed to get in 3 or 4 times. The first two times to wall hug/map all area for carto title. Because it's so hard to get in here, usually you see half of the players mapping around.

Vahn Roi · Jun 24, 2007, 04:37 AM // 04:37

after over a year I finally got a chance to play it last night. Still kind of last as how to be effective in it, but I followed my friend's lead and we had fun.

Terra Xin · Jun 24, 2007, 06:12 AM // 06:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spazzer

Jade Quarry would be more popular if everyone could play Kurzick.

Seriously, though. It should be avoided at all costs until the exploit is fixed. However, like all bugs that favor Kurz side, don't expect it to be fixed any time soon. Hooray for faction bias.

?

There are more Kurzicks than Luxons in JQ, unless you're meaning that everyone should 'play' like Kurzicks, then I see what you mean.

j/k

btw, what's the exploit in JQ??

Several reasons for why there are usually more Kurzicks than Luxons
1 - Kurzicks are good at even playing fields
2 - JQ has a fixed time till the match ends, whereas in FA, the time (as well as the Kurzick's score) is mainly determined by the speed at which Luxons advance.
3 - FA is closer and most likely the first one to get to for players, and just don't bother going to JQ.

upier · Jun 24, 2007, 07:33 AM // 07:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terra Xin

?

There are more Kurzicks than Luxons in JQ, unless you're meaning that everyone should 'play' like Kurzicks, then I see what you mean.

j/k

btw, what's the exploit in JQ??

Several reasons for why there are usually more Kurzicks than Luxons
1 - Kurzicks are good at even playing fields
2 - JQ has a fixed time till the match ends, whereas in FA, the time (as well as the Kurzick's score) is mainly determined by the speed at which Luxons advance.
3 - FA is closer and most likely the first one to get to for players, and just don't bother going to JQ.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiki

Exploit

There is an exploit in this mission that allows access to the arena during the pre-match countdown. As soon as you load, head to the (right for Kurzicks, left for Luxons). There is a guard point held by the enemy just outside the base. Attack the archers there with ranged attacks, and then use Consume Corpse or Necrotic Traversal to teleport to their corpses, thus gaining access to the arena before the gates open and the teleporters begin functioning. Mines can be claimed before the match starts, and the turtle/juggernaut will immediately spawn and start to carry its jade home.

Due to a recent update, this has been partially fixed; Luxons cannot use this exploit because the nearest guard point is now pre-owned to the Luxon side.

concerning your reasoning for more kurzicks:
1. no - the players playing the kurzick side at Aspy mostly suck and that is why you get the impression that they are better at even playing fields. the kurzick aspy players mostly don't understand what they are doing there so when they move to JQ with its simple rules they do better then at Aspy but kinda on the same level as the luxons. and then theres is the exploit which just means that out of two dumb sides - the one which uses the exploit has a better chance!
UNLESS of course you tried to say that "even playing field" means "dumb on both sides"!

3. Aspy is closer FOR kurzicks then JQ but JQ is MUCH closer then Aspy for the luxons. so your reasoning no. 3 is just wrong.

Cymmina · Jun 24, 2007, 12:24 PM // 12:24

To this day, JQ is my favorite PvP(ish) map. I don't play JQ anymore because the cartographers ruined it for me. It's not fun when the teams are 50% cartographers who won't help for the critical start of the mission and then leave when they're done getting their .3%. No thanks, I won't be back.

Necrotic Traversal/Consume Corpse was actually allowed on both sides, I'm not sure why they removed it for the Luxons. It's not *that* big of an advantage if your team knows how to play. Refusing to play because of it reduces the likelyhood of it getting fixed. It's a waste of a skill slot anyway, since it's only useful those first few seconds of the match. The turtles/juggs getting stuck in base (both sides) is a bigger problem.

Clone · Jun 24, 2007, 12:31 PM // 12:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cymmina

To this day, JQ is my favorite PvP(ish) map. I don't play JQ anymore because the cartographers ruined it for me. It's not fun when the teams are 50% cartographers who won't help for the critical start of the mission and then leave when they're done getting their .3%. No thanks, I won't be back.

Yeah, the map itself is one of my favorites for PvP type play. They should open it up for cartographers to run around freely so they don't hurt any people who actually want to play matches there. Its hard enough to get in as is. You don't want to get in and get people running off to map things.

Servant of Kali · Jun 24, 2007, 01:40 PM // 13:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terra Xin

3 - FA is closer and most likely the first one to get to for players, and just don't bother going to JQ.

And what of PvP players?
Fort Aspenwood is popular because it's one of the best ever PvP maps in GW. It's fun, it's strategic, and overall quite amusing to play on both sides. Even with occasional turtle/warrior glitches, Luxon side is still favored in Fort Aspenwood, but the game is enjoyable on both sides.

JQ on the other hand.. let's see, an exploit, a terrain which just annoys me to hell when i play some builds, and overall i dunno, the game just wasn't interesting to me. Maybe i'll try it again, soon, but so far i just did not like it.

Im sorry but the idea of Siege and siege defense is far more interesting to the players, always has been, than escorting some turtles for whatever they are doing there. If i want to escort turtles, I can do that in Fort Aspenwood as well, plus many other things.

And just look at the exploit.. no matter how minor, it's annoying and repulsive. JQ is an example of a badly designed PvP map, just as Paragon is an example of badly designed profession.

JGaff · Jun 24, 2007, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Pro Tip: If you want to play in the Quarry, grab some friends, spam every major city you can get to quickly (Nicely, and not over the top) that you will be playing a game in the Jade Quarry and anybody who is interested should haul ass there. Make sure you get a good number on each side, let people map and explore it, and have fun.

If you want a "true" game, I'd set up a secret match between your guildmates or something and keep it under your hat so to speak.

cyberjanet · Jun 25, 2007, 06:25 AM // 06:25

I've never played Fort Aspenwood or Jade Quarry because I expect to get yelled at for never having done it before. Just like in DoA.

Kool Pajamas · Jun 25, 2007, 06:31 AM // 06:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyberjanet

I've never played Fort Aspenwood or Jade Quarry because I expect to get yelled at for never having done it before. Just like in DoA.

There are NPC's you can talk to in the waiting areas that tell you what you need to do. In FA on kurz side talk to Gunther. Its pretty simple and you wont get yelled at because most of the people there dont know what they are doing.

Hyper.nl · Jun 25, 2007, 06:56 AM // 06:56

I played it yesterday a few times in English disctict. It was fairly easy to get in, but after a few instanced the players left and the endless waiting cycle resumed.

kurtas · Jun 25, 2007, 08:04 AM // 08:04

This thread should be renamed "Jade Quarry: Fix the bug, please."
I played 3 games of it last night on the luxon side (kurzick side had endless wait times), in all the games the necrotic transversal exploit was used by the kurzicks to own about half the map before the match had started.
We did what we could but only managed to get 4 before the kurzick's won it.

Still wonder why people don't play it?

Diablo™ · Jun 25, 2007, 10:24 AM // 10:24

Will try it this week...

TheOneMephisto · Jun 25, 2007, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

And what of PvP players?
Fort Aspenwood is popular because it's one of the best ever PvP maps in GW. It's fun, it's strategic, and overall quite amusing to play on both sides. Even with occasional turtle/warrior glitches, Luxon side is still favored in Fort Aspenwood, but the game is enjoyable on both sides.

According to who? Personally, I think that ABs are better designed maps than FA. ABs at least have potential for organized play if ANet ever allowed it, FA is only balanced because of the random nature and swarms of bad players playing it. FA by its nature is also almost impossible to balance correctly due to both sides having completely different set-ups and objectives.

countesscorpula · Jun 25, 2007, 11:35 PM // 23:35

When i first made this post, people weren't using the exploit (in the games i played anyways). But when I went back to play today, every single match some bright kurzick player would opt to take the easy way and attack the guards before the countdown finished. I eventually convinced one of them that it was unfair, but that will do little to stop the tide of abuse.

Please a-net, fix the bug where Kurzicks can attack the luxon guard post BEFORE the match starts. I ask this as a kurzick alligned player myself. It would be nice to know we beat them fair and square, rather than constantly abusing some bug. Not only that, if the Luxons are overly discouraged from playing than the map will once again fall into disuse. When we play fair, it's a close match, and that's good for everyone. When the Luxons can only manage to pull in two jade slabs - that's hardly worth their time faction wise, and they WILL stop playing.

aapo · Jun 26, 2007, 12:53 AM // 00:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

According to who? Personally, I think that ABs are better designed maps than FA. ABs at least have potential for organized play if ANet ever allowed it, FA is only balanced because of the random nature and swarms of bad players playing it. FA by its nature is also almost impossible to balance correctly due to both sides having completely different set-ups and objectives.

- How are detonation and hostage maps balanced in Counter-Strike? Simple.

1. First thing to do is setting up playfield so that it's equally favorable for both sides. If Luxons can often completely overtake and intercept Kurzick jade carriers, then jade mines are on wrong spot. Fort Aspenwood matches are played on completely random group, so holding mines shouldn't need any kind of special strategy. Do guards react well to coming enemy assault? Is it feasible to even try to repair the gates or run amber in the first place?

2. Setting up reasonable time limit. Kurzicks can only win when their weapon is completed, which takes time. If timelimit is too long, playing for Kurzick side is very uninteresting. Just like on detonation maps if timelimit is 10 minutes, terrorists could just camp on their base and never even bother taking the bomb anywhere, making games boring for CT side. Further, because Fort Aspenwood matches don't have any kind of administration, it's imperative that the mission is designed with utmost balance and fair play in mind. Neglecting these issues will result it detrimental gameplay seen as leeching, AFKing and unwillingness to play. Jade Quarry is a perfect and glaring example of this, being underpopulated right from the release of Factions.

What I'm becoming increasingly worried about is that ANET doesn't seem to have any kind of quality assurance team. Seems to me that ANET thinks problem with FA and JQ is that these places are not rewarding enough, so they rack up faction gain and double weekends so that people would play them more.