Curse

KamikazeChicken · Jun 01, 2007, 04:48 AM // 04:48

My guild has done Urgoz at least once a day since the update, and tonight we just finished a Deep run without a single elementalist. (Only 2 of us had ever done the deep too.)

The missions are not hard, and you don't have to use the cookie-cutter builds to do them. Just don't PUG or find a PUG with Vent/TS.

Sofonisba · Jun 01, 2007, 05:09 AM // 05:09

I'm sorry, I'd probably never do one of these with a PUG. I'm afraid of noobs* but mostly it's due to the personality thing. If I'm going to spend 3 hours or whatever with people, I'd sure like to know already that I like spending time with them lol.

Our guild/alliance is going to try HM Urgoz this weekend (so many time zones to take into account!) and no matter what happens we'll have fun together. As for being "worth it" anymore? Well, like I said, we just go to have fun, for the challenge, and the rewards are a bonus.

*defined here as someone who claims to know what they're doing but in fact do not; I have no issue with someone who has never done a mish, long as they speak up about it so they can be warned "don't step here, don't cross this bridge, don't run for that seemingly safe chest..." etc.

In the meantime, there are more peeps in the elites, so eventually hopefully over time there will be more experienced people in there, and the "noob" population will dwindle. I don't know how people expect others to learn...

bam23 · Jun 01, 2007, 05:16 AM // 05:16

Really, you get less "noobs" by helping them. Stop complaining about them and help them out.

zwei2stein · Jun 01, 2007, 05:28 AM // 05:28

Well, pug quality deteoriated a lot in past week. I was used to HM deep in 1:00 - 1:10, nowadays its 1:30 and you even have chance of party wipe ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sofonisba

*defined here as someone who claims to know what they're doing but in fact do not; I have no issue with someone who has never done a mish, long as they speak up about it so they can be warned "don't step here, don't cross this bridge, don't run for that seemingly safe chest..." etc.

Yes.

Also, you should kinda explain why you are doing seemingly random stuff (health bar turns green, "XYZ, dont attack onis!!"; Take away your staff/wand NOW!).

i suspect that half time people disregard such commands is because they think you are joking/being idiot/ahole.

-

But its true, deep is filled with people who have little clue and big ego (i mean, its 1st time i am going elite mission, why whould i join hard mode team?)

But good thing is that theese people usually die cruel and unusual death at start and either give up on it completely or go back to easy mode.

The Great Al · Jun 01, 2007, 05:46 AM // 05:46

I have had a lot of great PUGs the past few days in the deep.

Marth Reynolds · Jun 01, 2007, 06:40 AM // 06:40

Just make rules that every party member pinges their build and warriors for the deep also ping their weapons, if the leader won't like it he can kick them.

Unfortunately that doesn't work with lazy/rare hungry leaders who often want to start as quickly as possible and don't ask builds <-- (i suggest you leave these groups because they will have a petite chance of being good)

Ask for skills to bring along, this works a lot better then just demanding a certain skill, be friendly and they'll be friendly back most likely (or ignore you :/)

Even noobs you give a skillset and the those that listen will be better then most players, simply because they would be willing to learn is such a situation.

A major problem i had lately was laguage in the elite missions however, where'd you ask for casters to unequip wands and staffs some would not understand what i was saying.. or taking 15 mins to find out how to say "use recall" to a french warrior.... appeared he didn't have "rappel".

-No offense meant but most ppl that didn't spoke english were french.. hell i have even see a japanese player who spoke english so it's doable to learn it.
-Had many times that certain members of the group would be afk without even saying it for a minimal of 30 mins.
-example: i joined a group with monk that was 11 men already pinged build and we left to discover a W/A without recall and with Dragon Slash!

Evoc Silenti · Jun 01, 2007, 06:46 AM // 06:46

Moew Meow Meow Meow Meow

ogre-mage · Jun 01, 2007, 06:51 AM // 06:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gore

Ok nothing moreto say here...those Elite mission are now Shortbuses. Hords of liying noobs telling you they can HM but in fact they dont have a clue how to play there.

Am I alone ?

It's not a big deal... the deep is really friggin' easy (maybe not in HM), and Urgoz is also similarly simple.

Lord Natural · Jun 01, 2007, 07:26 AM // 07:26

It surprises you that the average pug would have trouble with the deep HM? What game have you been playing? Many pugs can't even do the deep in normal.

Zinger burger · Jun 01, 2007, 07:29 AM // 07:29

3hours? with a group who knows Urgoz, it can be done way quicker. 1hour 10~20mins with groups who 'hurry'

The deep well lets see, about 2 hours, if the group works well

Pwny Ride · Jun 01, 2007, 07:43 AM // 07:43

he spelt lying wrong.

freekedoutfish · Jun 01, 2007, 08:36 AM // 08:36

The reason why hard mode areas are filled with absolutely noobish players, is due to the way hard mode is accessed.

You only need to be lvl20 and have atleast one character having completed that campaign. Then any other lvl20 character you own can do hard mode in that campaign.

Basically it allows a player with a profession they might be useless with, to play Hard Mode in a continent they havent even completed.

I experienced this the other day....

....I was in Cantha and trying to form a party to do a Hard Mode mission. We had 7/8 and just needed any profession to finish it.

A ele asked to join, and he was able to do Hard Mode. We asked him to ping his build just to see, and despite it taking about 10 requests to get him to do it, he finally did.

Once he did, I nearly died!

He was a fire elemental with NO fire attunement, no energy return at all! He had 2 scattering spells and 2 spells that caused exhaustion! And most of the spells were high energy demand!

He would have been rendered useless within 2 minutes, and then spend ages regenerating and waiting for exhaustion to wear off!

I tried to ask him where his energy was going to come from. His reply was to spam his energy level in the team chat. He soon got kicked!

That is a perfect example how completely useless, inexperienced players are allowed to access hard mode. A mode intended for experienced players to test their metal!

In an ideal world, Anet would restrict HM to only characters who have actually completed that campaign in NM first.

But due to the low, low numbers of players doing HM, they cant!

However......

As for noobs being in and around elite zones. There will always be newbie players in elite zones. Players who have either never done them, or not played them much.

This is why I personally dont play elite zones, because most people there are arrogant l33ts IMO! They expect you to use cookie-cut builds and do exactly as they say, or your kicked.

I've never done any elite areas in the 18 months ive played, except FOW and SF. Stop winging that newbie players are in those zones. They all have to start somewhere.

If you want an experienced team that you can control and order around, then take guildies or alliance or friends with you! Otherwise you have to expect the odd newbiew player in elite zones who needs to learn.

bmw4496 · Jun 01, 2007, 09:20 AM // 09:20

The term 'n00b' has been so over used to the point that it becomes lame. Everyone was once a 'n00b'. How about you STFU and go help others out...

Evilsod · Jun 01, 2007, 09:26 AM // 09:26

I just get sick of the leavers... i thought i'd go find a pug B/P/Nuke team for Urgoz last night... what a waste of 1000 faction that was.

Like about 99% of the Barrage teams i've been in, we almost got wiped by the Dredge thanks to Shields Up, and like 50% of those pugs, half the team left like retards right afterwards. Yet usually thats the only bad spot we encounter, the rest is clean sailing for Barrage once Shields Up is out of the way. But the monk had Healing Breeze, so i guess its for the best

ll Minx ll · Jun 01, 2007, 10:20 AM // 10:20

I would like to point out, that firsttimers will do just as good as any experienced players that do elite mission, but only if they...

... listen ...

Most people won't even try to listen, change or adjust to team needs, and you tell them too, you get a "STFU U NOOB" in your face - for some reason...

I've had numerous firsttimers on my team, and in many cases they do better or just as good as any experienced elite mission player, because they listen and don't think they are gods.

I am one of those who knows the elite missions well, also lucky to know many many good players within those places, and i've never been in need of a guild or alliance, if i pug, i make sure to look through each person, and tells them this and that to adjust.

Some time ago, i had a monk joining, where 2 skills were healing, 2 protection and 4 smiting, or something along those lines, i can't for sure remember.
I told him to change, and posted him a "standard" WoH monk build for doing the deep, an easy build to start out with. Where he told me to shut up and that i've never done this before.

Those are the true, as you would call them "noobs" as they won't accept changes nor opinions of someone else and lack the ability to communicate in a good way.

Ensign · Jun 01, 2007, 10:50 AM // 10:50

These zones aren't exactly hard. I've done both 'elite' missions with people who fail hard at Guild Wars without too many problems. The builds commonly used are so mindless and redundant that a few people can AFK through most fights without consequence. Remember to bring a combat res for the dorks who manage to 60 themselves fast and never recover. They're still useful as aggro magnets.

I've reversed my opinion on pugs a bit recently. If it's in an easy area and you don't care, why not. Sure, some people will fail hard, but it's kinda funny, and usually isn't mission critical. On the other hand, I've done a good amount of DoA with purely pug groups, and I've been really impressed with the quality of play in general there. Sure there are some randoms there, but a majority of players I've played with there have been surprisingly competent.

Peace,
-CxE

Gaia_Hunter · Jun 01, 2007, 12:23 PM // 12:23

Well noob in a party is also a definition for "veterans are so stupid they cant teach the new guy".

I arrived there with 0 experience of the mission except the few i read in wiki, find a hm party (actually a nice) and got my items from the final chest in around 2.20 (some bad lure somewhere). So as long as ppl ping the builds (also make newer players understand the general strategy) and give some suggestion/explain it, things will go fine.

About the language, my GW is in english but others ppl GW are in other languages, so telling someone the name of the skill, when their skill goes for another name, may not be the best way.

About the reason ppl do Deep/Urgoz. Some ppl actually want the weapons/skins for themselves rather than trade them for money. I farm hard and I keep most weapons for my own use, rather than going to sell them.

Star Gazer · Jun 01, 2007, 12:29 PM // 12:29

Always remember kids, when out in unknown, don't forget your pugspray!

TheRaven · Jun 01, 2007, 01:40 PM // 13:40

I'm sick of all the Elitism in the game. I have never been into the Deep.

Why?

Because I can't get a group. I've tried desperately to get into either the Warren or The Deep for about 2 weeks now, ever since I heard about the new weapons. My guild isn't interested in doing either mission so I'm forced to pug it.

I've bought passage scrolls to The Deep a few times only to find the place deserted when i got there. I did see a guild grp warp in with 10 players once and asked if I could join them. They called me a noob and said to go with my own guild.

I'm not a noob player. I'll admit that I don't know the deep very well (BECAUSE I'VE NEVER BEEN ABLE TO SEE IT!!!) but I'm flexible with my builds and I'll adapt to the groups needs.

It was the same story in the Warren. I didn't try to take my warrior there because I know most warriors are shunned over there. My ranger tried to get into a few groups though and again was told (a bit more politely this time) to go with my guild or don't go.

So, what about those of us in small guilds or guilds that don't do PvE elite missions. Are we doomed to never see these areas?

I'm not asking for some ultra-elite players to take me into the group and run me thru the mission. I'm asking for a fun group of competent players that would like to learn the missions alongside my warrior or ranger.

Gaia_Hunter · Jun 01, 2007, 01:49 PM // 13:49

Try to move to international districts, at least for the deep, most of the action is in there.

Also consider starting with a monk. They are always wanted, and u can stay back and learn from the other guys, see the aggro paterns and what the party is doing at any given time.

Then, after u learned, you can move to other professions if u enjoy them more.