Curse

yukimura_gw · Jun 22, 2007, 01:30 PM // 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

No, not at all, you only have to be able to find the merchant and you can still sell the valuable items//mods to players. You can play the game well with little to no trade and end up with a PvP ready character.

The problem is underline above. Yes, you can still sell the valuable
items/mods to player, but it can take forever and the profit made
doesn't always worth it.

Before Loot Scaling, items were expensive but casual players could
afford them. When you find a valuable mods, selling it took less time
and profit was good.

Now with loot scaling, some items dropped price but others are still
expensive and casual players can't afford them. If a casual player find
a valuable mods, he might not have the time nor the patience to
sell it and the profit is usually horrible.

Maybe, for you, you never felt the difference before and after loot
scaling. But for me, its horrible. I liked farming. I liked expensive stuff.
I wanted to have a more unique character in PvP that a cookie cutter
PvP character.

So for people like me (i'm not alone, I think), what is the solution?
- Farm green? doesn't pay a lot lately, overfarmed
- Farm gold weapon? hard to sell too. ridiculous price lately b/c of green
- Farm white? can't with loot scaling. horrible profit
- Treasure chest? sure, once in a month
- Chest running? you need money to buy keys and profit aren't always there
- Farm tomes in HM? maybe, i'll try to see if it pay
- Play PvE? do I have to play the same story ever and ever to have
a lil amount of cash?
- Buy Platinum? expensive but could solve my problems
- Quit GW and don't bother about it anymore? would be sad but I consider it
- Play PvP? sure it's fun but it doesn't pay a lot

Maybe i'm missing some solution for people like me.

Don't say "Have less expensive taste". People like you didn't cared about
15k armor and don't care about them even after loot scaling. I wonder
how loot scaling affected your life.

And for bots, they continue farming as before. I think gold seller are
making more money now than ever before because of loot scaling.
Do you really think it affect a computer that it make 8 times less
money? Does it affect gold seller? Of course yes, positively, it give
them more customers. I never thought about buying money before.

Anyway, I still think Loot Scaling wasn't the way to go and I surely
won't buy GW:EN and GW2 if Loot Scaling is still in effect. I know,
I know, you won't regret me. I will find my fun elsewhere.

thumper · Jun 22, 2007, 03:04 PM // 15:04

...that is the question.

How many players want to buy a sweet game like Guild Wars and then, as some of the more frugal crowd seem to suggest, simply play the missions, quests, and such using only the minimum armors and weapons? No "ego" gear...just collector stuff or whatever you can scrounge up with your "mission gold".

Sounds really inviting huh? Is that really why we buy the game and play?

Let's get real for a minute. The average player plays to "accomplish"...to win. It isn't just about missions and such, its also about LOOT! Pride of accomplishment...bragging rights. A player needs a goal for crying out loud. Of course you can finish the game using the basic kit. Everyone who played in the early days of Prophecies knows that. .But why? Why settle? Fell Blades and Dwayna's Grace. Nightbringers and Forge Armor. Sephis Axes and Black Dyes. Colossal Swords...uh...maybe not...

The thrill of the drop...maybe solo farmers need to be honest with the community.

That's right, time to come clean about why you do it. It's not really just about the gold or acquistition of uber-wealth....I mean, it's all good to have a lot of gold in storage and uber-kit but is it all about that sweet-ass Grotto armor you were sporting "back in the day"? Nope, it's really all about the rush you get when that rare item finally drops, when that rat-bastard boss finally gives up the green or when the chest pops an elem sword or a low req crystalline. What solo-farmer hasn't had an uber-drop laying on the ground and briefly, just for a second, not wished that there was another player standing next to you to "share" in the moment? A witness to your leetness...(or at least be there as a "gloat-target). No, the victory dance usually goes unnoticed...but you felt the RUSH! And once you have felt it, there is no going back. How many of you remember the first time you finished a full solo griffon run in the Desert? Surrounded by piles of dead girffons...loot scattered as far as the eye could see...remember the feeling...OMGZ LOOTZ...or maybe after tweeking your build you had that moment, that first time feeling of accomplishment when you were standing alone in the middle of a group of dead hydras...those same critters that not long ago had been p0wning your PUG? How did it feel?

I...AM....A.....GOD!

Yeah...the rush....if you weren't there, you won't understand. It wasn't all about greed...it was about the pride of accomplishment. (yeah, I know, the gold didn't hurt either)

oh, the anti-farmers will say such things as "no joy in a cookie-cutter build" or "OMGZNOOB SPLOITBIATCHES" but you know better. Who cares what they think? My game, my rules.

Loot-scaling? 1/8? Who bloody cares? It was never about the whites, blues, or purples. It was then and still is about golds and greens....and black dyes...and chest runs.

HM or die.

So, did Anet really go after the hard-core solo farmer? Hellz no...but they seem to have put a bit of a hurt on the casual farmer. The uber farmer is still out there doing the whole rush-addicted, farm grind, look'in for the uber-drop thing. And making gold...(of course, so are the bots but that's a different thread altogether).

Don't worry too much about the hard-core HM farmer...they are ok. Worry about the casual farmer trying to get enough for some "pride-armor" or that sweet staff....or to play that stripper

Just play the game? I agree 100%...play the bloody game, but to make an issue that collectors armor and weapons are "good enough" is like saying " I have no desire, no fire, no drive".

"I am content with the mundane, to be average, to be...normal". Screw "average". Anet creates a framework...the game is all me.

I submit to you that we play a game to relax, enjoy, and maybe escape our routine, if only for a few short hours. We choose to play the game for our own purposes...and thus we should never, ever concern ourselves with how others play or how others wish us to play. So the next time you are told that "average" is a good thing or the desire for uber-kit is somehow wrong and you should instead content yourself with joining a PUG and trudging through the game rather than striving for more, simply tell them to kiss your black-dyed, thrill-seeking, Forge Armored ass and STFU or you will smack them with your req 9 15^50 20/20 +30 crystalline...

In this game I am a solo farmer and a noob helper, a 55 monk and a team player, a chest-runner and an explorer, a leader and a follower. I play on my own terms and (so far) no nerf has ever stopped me from enjoying the game.

My name is Skyy Ardanien. I choose to be different.

yukimura_gw · Jun 22, 2007, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by thumper

[... text above ...]
My name is Skyy Ardanien. I choose to be different.

Great for you if you can still enjoy the game after loot scaling. ^_^

As for me, I can't spent more than 3-4 hrs on GW per week
lately. I can't do a lot of money. I can't sold my stuff, and
making character to farm HM need some money investment.

I never had a uber FoW armor. Neither a Crystalline sword.
Neither [insert more than 300k stuff here]. That what I considered
to be the elitist armor and weapons I couldn't never afford
as a casual players.

I considered 15k armor has a achievement for a PvE player and
casual player. Now, even 15k armor are beyond my reach as a
casual player.

Except once every month.

thumper · Jun 22, 2007, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by yukimura_gw

Great for you if you can still enjoy the game after loot scaling. ^_^

As for me, I can't spent more than 3-4 hrs on GW per week
lately. I can't do a lot of money. I can't sold my stuff, and
making character to farm HM need some money investment.

I never had a uber FoW armor. Neither a Crystalline sword.
Neither [insert more than 300k stuff here]. That what I considered
to be the elitist armor and weapons I couldn't never afford
as a casual players.

I considered 15k armor has a achievement for a PvE player and
casual player. Now, even 15k armor are beyond my reach as a
casual player.

Except once every month.

We are in agreement.

Casual players, those who cannot devote a great deal of time to the game, are hit hard by loot-scaling. Is this what Anet had in mind? I don't think so but, that does not change the reality of it. When I have time to devote to some HM farming I have little trouble making gold but, in Guild Wars, as in real life time = money.

Under the new loot-scaling format those who don't have the time don't get the gold. Of course it has always been that way to a certain extent, but not to the extreme that it seems to be today.

So where does this end up? It would seem that many players who wish to purchase more expensive items will break down and buy gold from some bot-site and use it in-game to satisfy what I see as a perfectly normal urge to own some cool stuff. That means more bots...and if bots were the ultimate target, and that looks very doubtful, then this little experiment is a failure. As proof that players are buying gold ask yourself why there are so many bots? It seems like there are more now than a month ago.

But if this is an attempt to assist the economy then I am not at all sure what it has accomplished. Was the economy broke?

I have said it before, there is an overall sense of discontent in the game lately. The major trading areas are somehow muted...not as vibrant. Not a lot of players buying and selling the usual stuff...not for the lack of trying though. Just seems like there is a lot of WTS and not a lot of WTB.

On the otherhand, if a major economic slowdown was part of the target goal then it would seem that this has indeed been accomplished.

Time = Money

....it will always be this way. But it makes sense that cutting back on the average players ability to make sufficient funds for certain "uber" armors and weapons is not really a noble thing to do. As I have stated before, this has not had huge impact on uber-farmers, those with the time to invest both in farming and in trading. Some very bright folks have pointed out that it isn't just about the time spent farming, it is often about the time spent trying to find buyers.

I have great hope that Anet will see this and make it right.

'nuff said.

youngstar · Jun 22, 2007, 07:42 PM // 19:42

I can only hope someone from Anet reads this thread.

I used to enjoy farming, I used to love soloing, but now...it seems to have no point. Sure I get a little bit more gold, but that's it. I just think that loot scale was too big of a drastic change for Anet to make in the game. Never has any other game made a change like this, that has been hated by so many.

Angelic Upstart · Jun 22, 2007, 08:12 PM // 20:12

My name is Skyy Ardanien. I choose to be different

Great post dude, just about hit the nail on the head with that one, lol..
Solo HM ftw!!

Cab Tastic · Jun 22, 2007, 08:32 PM // 20:32

Couple of great posts Thumper.

I personally think that ANET are not thinking from a players perspective. A lot of decisions recently seem to be aimed at taking the fun out of the game. Loot scaling being the worse example of this.

Dr Strangelove · Jun 22, 2007, 11:21 PM // 23:21

I too, am making significantly more money from just playing the game than I ever did before. Everything is cheaper now, so I don't have to farm to get all my precious shinies anymore. It's good stuff.

Casual players aren't hit hard by loot scaling at all, the people who are hit hard were those who did low-end farming runs to build up huge stashes of gold. They are then able to offer higher prices on everything, thus causing inflation on forcing everyone else to farm if they want to buy anything.

Amy Awien · Jun 22, 2007, 11:39 PM // 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by yukimura_gw

The problem is underline above. Yes, you can still sell the valuable
items/mods to player, but it can take forever and the profit made
doesn't always worth it.

I responded to remark about needing an economics course. You don't need an ecomics course to sell things in GW.

No, I don't farm, and since the scaling I've bought my character a 15k. As some stated, gold seems to come easier then before.

chikorita23 · Jun 23, 2007, 04:09 AM // 04:09

I agree with one person in page1! I perfect 12 of my characters aged ago before loot drop, each chars have at least one 15k armors, most skills and tons of greens. So nerfing the drop won't affect me, but imagine..... for new comer it's horrible! Seriously horrible! And I do agree I refuse to buy anything now beside new skills.

And yes.... I agree more with that same person! My most income now is the free NF treasure chest! Those chest offer free money and rare item, and they reset monthly.... so I could earn a lot if I am willing to spend time runing each character for it. (problem is.... how many ppl actually AWARE of these little freebies??)

the_jos · Jun 23, 2007, 09:06 AM // 09:06

Quote:

But if this is an attempt to assist the economy then I am not at all sure what it has accomplished. Was the economy broke?

I think the economy needed cooldown.
What was happening that more gold was getting in the economy, casual farmers (not casual players) outnumbering bots.
(I think the main problem was not the bots!)
This caused high prices in the player to player market, which could already been observed in Factions.
A-net did several attempts to cool things down (green item weekends, double chest rewards, double key drops), but the prices stayed quite high.
This continued in NF, partly supported by A-net (the unlocked chest rewards).
With an economy where the casual player cannot obtain a green except by solo-farming, something is broken.
This has nothing to do with the drops casual players got, but all with the buying power of the casual solo-farmers (people making several K in a couple of minutes, time after time).
I do remember the high green prices in Tyria before Factions, but with the introduction of Factions A-net introduced a lot more greens on the market.
I see this as a sign they wanted those to be available to more people.

When people were stating some prices (most greens and runes) were unfair, they were just told 'stfu and go farm'.
This is a double-bad situation. If someone does not like solo-playing, he's not going to get the items. If someone goes solo-farming, he contributes to the problem.

What A-net did with this nerf was taking away the quick gold gain for casual solo-farmers. Several K's in a couple of minutes is not possible anymore (except perhaps for some uber-farmers).
As a side effect, those casual solo-farmers have less spending power, lowering the non-perfect/high req rare-skin market.
This caused double trouble for them, since that was also more a casual farming market.
The high-end market will not be hit as hard.

I think this solved some problems with the economy, but introduced some others. Specially to those that used to have huge spending powers and now have only 1/8 of that left. They might be seeking other (non-legal) ways to get their spending power back.

It could also introduce problems on the rare skin market, since players are not making enough gold and stop farming them, forcing prices up again.
This would not be a real problem for the casual player, since I don't see those as skins for the casual player. For example, how many casual players are there with a Chaos Axe?

Master Sword Keeper · Jun 23, 2007, 10:57 AM // 10:57

Okay so you're telling me... I'll get a gold every 12th or 13 monster?
Or if i farm outside of my newest/was potential area...If i kill 23 mantids I'll get a drop?

Um...i just came off the game to post here...I JUST BLOODY KILLED 23 of them and got NOTHING!!!!

MSK: 1 Anet: 0

What's getting worse is the remandable ammount of LAG! *runs to Bergen*
OMFG! 25-37 Mo/W's. Um anyone realising anything wrong with this picture?

PING COUNT: 37,980
Internet Connection: 24mbs

hmmm okay..ANET! Either Wake up and start re-evaluating your current position or start looking for another career. I was in the Haiju Lagoon not too long ago and I had a new ritualist ask me... "Why arent we getting any drops?" I replied. "Anet's made sure no-one gets any"...This Ritulist has now moved to WoW...Just like that.

GG ANET.

Vamis Threen · Jun 23, 2007, 11:26 AM // 11:26

I've been playing Gw for about nine months and prices have fallen. For instance, a FDS used to be worth selling and IDS were ultra-rare. Superior vigor runes used to cost 36K, and hardly ever dropped! Green prices have fallen, especially for items such as Exuro's and Milthuran's for example which drop just outside outposts.

The economy has changed. It used to be worth one's while to stand in LA trying to sell a good (but not brilliant) gold. Now --> straight to the merch.

I'm not as rich, especially now I can't farm vermin in NM. But I can buy more stuff with my money! many greens are within my reach. I trade less and play more. This is a GOOD THING.

Miss nuking those vermin, though

Loviatar · Jun 23, 2007, 04:51 PM // 16:51

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Sword Keeper

Okay so you're telling me... I'll get a gold every 12th or 13 monster?
Or if i farm outside of my newest/was potential area...If i kill 23 mantids I'll get a drop?

Um...i just came off the game to post here...I JUST BLOODY KILLED 23 of them and got NOTHING!!!!

MSK: 1 Anet: 0

you already have a proven track record of being wrong on almost everything.

did anybody tell you its random drops?

Quote:

What's getting worse is the remandable ammount of LAG! *runs to Bergen*
PING COUNT: 37,980
Internet Connection: 24mbs

were you even aware that there are many hops on the way to the Anet servers that Anet has no control over which has nothing to do with how good a connecion you have to your ISP?

Quote:

hmmm okay..ANET! Either Wake up and start re-evaluating your current position or start looking for another career. I was in the Haiju Lagoon not too long ago and I had a new ritualist ask me... "Why arent we getting any drops?" I replied. "Anet's made sure no-one gets any"...This Ritulist has now moved to WoW...Just like that. GG ANET.

i think that has reached a new level of ignorance even for you.

drive away a new player with a answer that is either a lie or complete ignorance

Rusty Deth · Jun 23, 2007, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by thumper

...that is the question.

HM or die

My name is Skyy Ardanien. I choose to be different.

Balls to the walls man, you said it all with that.

If people really want to make money, HM is there to solve that problem.

Destro Maniak · Jun 23, 2007, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angelic Upstart

My name is Skyy Ardanien. I choose to be different

Great post dude, just about hit the nail on the head with that one, lol..
Solo HM ftw!!

The idea isnt farmin nerfed now the drops are 'CURSED'. In HM too. Not tell me what am I gonna do with a req9 15^50 sword without an extreme skin. Koss gonna like it I suppose

1 gold never better then 10k worth of whites after all both are merchant valuse cause no one buys it. After all the drop rate is like that too. In before nerf you couldnt earn 10k in time you can loot a single gold now. HM farming isnt so different from normal mode. The point is drop rate of HM is less than 1/5 of before nerf.

I Is Special · Jun 23, 2007, 11:41 PM // 23:41

Hmm...

Let's ask ourselves.."What was loot scaleing meant to do?"

A: Lessen the amount of gold coming into the game.

Has it worked? Yes. But what has lowered the cost of so many rare items such as golds, greens, collosal schimitars, dead swords, deadbows, and various other rare items?--Hard mode, and thats good right? Who doesnt want to have a 15^50 Collosal for 50k?

WELL...with loot scaleing it is now amazingly hard to get that 50k, or even the 10k for buying new max armor. You get 100g for killing 20 monsters, and about 2k for vanquishing a zone in hardmode, however solo-farming in Hard mode has seemed to dish out pretty good profits. However, How many "Casual" players have Hardmode unlocked and have a decked out 55 toon ready to farm bosses, or what Casual player even wants to? Barely any..the fact is that Solo Hardcore Hardmode farmers are reaping the benifits that were supposed to go for the casual players, and casual (and new) players are left in the dust because they dont farm hardmode, as they just want to play through the game regularly for about one or two hours a day.

SO i think Lootscaleing has pretty much backfired. Casual players are takeing it in the Arse, New players are having a grindfest to get the armor that costs even 50g a piece, and SoloHardcore Hardmode farmers are...well...happy.

Cale Roughstar · Jun 24, 2007, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Thumper, your post brought tears to my eyes. As everyone has said, you have nailed the reason I solo farm. It is for the adrenaline rush of seeing those mobs drop a max gold req9 rare skin! Nothing beats the anxiousness as you double click your ID kit, cross your fingers and pray for 15^50. This is just one of the things that makes Guild Wars great.

However, before you start calling me a fanboy, let me start bashing. Loot Scaling has made solo farming less enjoyable because of the sheer lack of good drops. Hard Mode was supposed to benefit solo farmers who were skilled enough to play it. This almost immediately went downhill into the mess that farming is now. If I HM farm on my 55 for 2 hours (which I cannot bear to do anyway) I may get 2 drops that LOOK good (req9 gold) but they turn out to be pieces of crap. This makes my 2 hours all for naught. I will never stop farming as long as I play GW, for I am greedy and want to feel P*I*M*P walking around with my weapons that make you salivate, but I cant help but feel that lootscaling has taken just a bit of the joy out of something that was not broken (exploited mabye, but not broken.)

Again thumper I just have to say that your post was inspiring (okay mabye I am a thumper fanboy

) and it took my mind off of all of those miserable treads going right now about how messed up GW is, and it reminded me of why I play this game.

KANE OG · Jun 24, 2007, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Don't pay attention to Loviatar... it's a proven fact that he/she is against farmers in general. He/she's post can be dismissed. Talk about a proven track record.........

KANE

Woot! Made Pathfinder ragging on someone. *tear

manitoba1073 · Jun 24, 2007, 04:09 AM // 04:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by KANE OG

Don't pay attention to Loviatar... it's a proven fact that he/she is against farmers in general. He/she's post can be dismissed. Talk about a proven track record.........

KANE

Woot! Made Pathfinder ragging on someone. *tear

HAHA grats Kane. Yes Loviatar really does hate us farmers. He never misses the chance to try to blame us for all his woes.