Curse

lacasner · Jul 18, 2007, 01:35 PM // 13:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by
unbound00

Dude, there are people pugging the majority of missions and some specific quests all hours of the day, every day.

I've been developing about 4 PvE characters this past month or so, and the only places where a pug is harder to find is on some later missions of the campaigns in early hours of the day.

Can you comprehend what kind of player base is that and how the MAJORITY will GREATLY BENEFIT from this?

Can at least some of you stop concerning about your own specific needs for a moment to look at the needs of others?

Everything about this place is illogical, most mission outposts have only 1 district anyway, and with one more player u can take 6 heroes and do much better than any pug. And if you think PvP is only my specific needs...you need to take your head out of the ground and realize this game is PvE+PvP, but PvP is what makes it unique.

rohara · Jul 18, 2007, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Gaile...the vast majority of people just aren't going to use the party search feature (read: continue to spam) until the character limit is increased to at least that of the chat window. 30 characters is simply not adequate for trading, and often not adequate for party formations either.

you can fight tooth and nail with those who don't convey this message to your expectations of politeness, but it doesn't mean they're wrong.

if the character limit issue can't be rectified - which, as a programmer, i find very hard to believe - i think the party window change should be reverted. as it is, its just an annoyance and it hasn't done a darn thing to stop spammers.

KANE OG · Jul 18, 2007, 01:40 PM // 13:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

I understand you want more characters in the PS window. Sorry, that is simply not possible with the programming in Guild Wars. It's something we can look at with the new programming and the new engine for Guild Wars 2

I've said it many times in other threads. Read your "spectacular GW Reborn" version of PC Gamer where Mr. Strain says specifically that GW2 will use a modified version of the GW1 engine.

That's why all of the same problems will still exist, and they'll still nerf the crap out of anything they want when they want.

KANE

unbound00 · Jul 18, 2007, 01:43 PM // 13:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by lacasner

Everything about this place is illogical, most mission outposts have only 1 district anyway, and with one more player u can take 6 heroes and do much better than any pug. And if you think PvP is only my specific needs...you need to take your head out of the ground and realize this game is PvE+PvP, but PvP is what makes it unique.

Actually, whenever I pugged this last month, the only time the party had to use heroes instead of people was if we couldn't find monks or some specific role like mm or nuker for a certain mission.

And I didn't say that PvP was your need alone and not someone else's, but that you can only look at it and not at other things because it's your need.

unbound00 · Jul 18, 2007, 01:46 PM // 13:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by rohara

Gaile...the vast majority of people just aren't going to use the party search feature (read: continue to spam) until the character limit is increased to at least that of the chat window. 30 characters is simply not adequate for trading, and often not adequate for party formations either.

you can fight tooth and nail with those who don't convey this message to your expectations of politeness, but it doesn't mean they're wrong.

if the character limit issue can't be rectified - which, as a programmer, i find very hard to believe - i think the party window change should be reverted. as it is, its just an annoyance and it hasn't done a darn thing to stop spammers.

I don't think anyone said that this is part of "reduce the spam" program. For all I know it's part of "people will now take a peek at the party search function when they need something" program. People just assumed, for some reason, that it was related to spamming. I don't think it is.

Shinjinbukai · Jul 18, 2007, 01:47 PM // 13:47

I have the same problem I can't even fit in "W T B Wandalz's Refuge and Shagu's Anthem" without Anthem getting cut out, comon and remove this already anet.

Sarevok Thordin · Jul 18, 2007, 02:00 PM // 14:00

I find the new party search to be just fine, I can find people I want easy since they get auto entered into the party search.

Traders I don't exactly care about so much since there is a channel for it.

glountz · Jul 18, 2007, 02:07 PM // 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

I understand you want more characters in the PS window. Sorry, that is simply not possible with the programming in Guild Wars. It's something we can look at with the new programming and the new engine for Guild Wars 2, but from all that I know, we cannot modify it for the current game.
However, I'd like you to look at the Big Picture, and realize how small that issue is, and how comments like "We never get what we want" are utterly inaccurate, inappropriate, and unfair.

*scratch* *scratch*....
Gaile... You seem not to understand your customers. You say you can't increase the PS character lenght. However, the limited size of it is a critical flaw. So much critical that it renders the whole feature useless, whatever you implement around it. A sport car with a lawn mower motor won't be able to win Indianapolis.
What people said to you (in a rude manner), is that you devoted time and money in a feature that has a critical flaw which remains unrepared. And so, you wasted time and money that would have been well used otherwise.
You say that you are entitled and very busy with GW:EN and GW2 game. That's okay. I can understand. However you don't repair and add features that have been asked for a long time before releasing it (PvP balance, Auction house, etc...). When you added space in the inventory, EVERYBODY applaused you. WHy? Because it was needed, it was asked by your customers, and it was well implemented.
All the features you added, PSearch window or automatic party window size, was not needed, not asked, and not well implemented.
So, the uproar from guruers.
I am to the point that I wonder if I must continue my relationship with the game you made. The issues are accumulating , are not repaired, and yet, you devote time to content that will forcely add broken features to the game, adding again to the general mess-up. I wonder why I would buy new content when so much things remain broken.
Most customers would be happy if you simply resolved the current issues before adding anything. I have been personally quite upset by the lag we had in Europe, loosing some GvG matches and wasting gaming time due to it.
I find myself playing less and less whereas I find your game fantastic overall.
I understand that you are working hard for such features.
Just don't waste anymore time to the PSearch, unless you increase character lenght. If you can't, let it die and do something else more pressing.

Aerian_Skybane · Jul 18, 2007, 02:14 PM // 14:14

I am not sure how level headed everyone else is, but after trying it out for a dayish now I think I can give some feedback that is not just blaming everything on ANet and such.

The update overall was great, although it took me a chunk of time to download :-P, I think it was worth it. I am still getting used to some of the features (map still throws me off for now), but it was a good update.

And of course whats the point here? The Party Search. When I read the update news I almost jumped out of my chair and did an Irish Jig, because I am a big proponent of the Party Channel, and I thought auto diverting spam was brilliant. Yes people will get around it, and so forth, but it was cool, now it actually mattered. There ARE a couple of issues I have with after playtesting it for a while. So as not to seem like a typical jumpy customer whom any company never wants to deal with, I will be polite and just point it out, not (digitally) scream that ANet is filled with morons who don't care about their game and so forth. I could easily go into my 2+ years of experience with this game and gaming for 10+ years about how thats not true, but thats not the point.

Party Search Pros:
+ Automatically designating the spam to PS
+ Filtering it into proper areas in PS

Party Search Cons:
+ Character Limit (I know Gaile you mentioned its impossible to fix, but it IS a con)
+ Errors in filter (A lot of WTSs in the Mission, Hunting, and Guild PS area with normal WTS and such in their title which should be filtered)
+ Since Party Search is auto redirected to, the scrolling makes it so at a busy time I can't keep up with it, and its annoying.
+ Trade chat should not be punished when it is something that non-spammers use on a regular basis. As of right now, when typing WTS in TRADE chat, it redirects it to PS, and cuts off everything you typed, in PS of course and in Trade channel. It is NOT right, and honestly it should be reserved to All chat only, as it says in the update notes. Players and ANet have been trying to encourage Trade Chat use for a long time now, why punish it?

Those four things are the big problem when it comes to the new system, I bet three of them can be fixed (the filter, the trade chat entry, and the scrolling), and honestly, I designate the last three as the most important to look into, as the filter is frustrating, the trade chat should not be punished by the redirecting and message gimping, and the scrolling makes me unable to find the proper group I want. I have a feeling over all all this angst will float away since it is a major change, and change is met by fury typically, especially in the digital world where people believe they can get what they want no matter how little or how much they pay for something. Overall though, I DO think a lot of thought was put into this, and is something I HAVE seen asked for, as the Party Search was not as cumbersome as people would have believed. I have been using it since inception and liked it a lot. And now its more in use!

That said, I know the message size may be a limit we have to deal with, but those other three things really upset how I use the Party Search, it is rather frutstrating when trying to get things together in popular areas. I am not a big trader of goods but when I do I loved Trade Chat, felt like the stock market kinda. Maybe I am just weird, but gimping Trade Chat was my dissapointment in this update. Hopefully it can be fixed!

And don't get so down Gaile, there are still lots of us who appreciate what ANet does and realize that your not some jerk group trying to piss us off for some reason. Guild Wars has never been ruined by anything you guys have done, time will tell if you do :-P, but it hasn't yet. And although your posts here have been a little frustrated, I still think you staying in touch with the players is a big deal.

Alright so now that I brown nosed can I get those fixes

Alas Poor Yorick · Jul 18, 2007, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

I think some of you need a swift kick in the... excuse me, I believe some of you need a reality check.

How could you even suggest that we don't play, don't care, don't read, don't give you anything, whatever the current beef of the day is?

Consider:

Party Search
Expanded storage
Observer Mode
Reconnects
The Festival Hat NPC
Domain of Anguish
The title system
Hard Mode
Festivals -- modified and new
A bloomin' $100,000 Tournament

The list is darn near endless!

I understand you want more characters in the PS window. Sorry, that is simply not possible with the programming in Guild Wars. It's something we can look at with the new programming and the new engine for Guild Wars 2, but from all that I know, we cannot modify it for the current game.

However, I'd like you to look at the Big Picture, and realize how small that issue is, and how comments like "We never get what we want" are utterly inaccurate, inappropriate, and unfair.

I advocate for fans every day. But I really hope that the other dev team members don't see this thread because, today, I'm totally embarrassed by a few of you and your petulant comments.

Gaile - this is probably the most obnoxious post you have ever written and you have written a few.

1: We did not ask for "party search" to sell and buy things - we wanted a workable trade system - party search is NOT it. It is less workable than the trade chat - that's why no one used it!!!! Forcing people to use an unworkable system shows that the DESIGNERS DO NOT PLAY THE GAME. Few who actually the game could think that buying and selling in party search in its current state is feasible. Hence, the conclusion that the people at ANet do not play their own game is a reasonable one.

2: How small the issue is? First we have a glut of gold weapons that we are expected to sell to other players. Second, we have a truncated system which makes it impossible to do so in a reasonable amount of time, thus requiring hours standing in towns either spamming in trade or hoping someone will understand 30 characters of abbreviations and ask to see what we are selling. If you assume that the only purpose of GuildWars is to go and kill things, you are right, it is a small issue. But if, as you said, you want people to interact more by selling to each other - then this is not only a major issue but almost makes the game unplayable in that area. The fact you think it is a small issue once again leads to the inevitable conclusion that ANet people do not play their own game - at least not often enough to really understand the dynamics.

3: You say increasing character limit is impossible. Fine! but the low character limit makes the party search method virtually unusable. No one with any common sense would ever think the best solution to fixing a broken system to FORCE PEOPLE TO USE IT. That's just dumb. If it really is impossible to fix it, fine, leave it alone. But to admit you can't fix it and then force people into it just shows the designers don't know their own game on a human level - ie - THEY DON'T PLAY IT!

4: I really hope the Devs DO see this thread. It's about time they realize how their dumb decisions upset people. Maybe then they would try learn to either leave things alone or find some way that is more workable rather than forcing a broken system on us.

OK - I'm glad they added party search - it was worth a shot. But experience showed very quickly it just wasn't working. To take that experience and then to the exact opposite of common sense (ie - to force people to use it) is just plain ridiculous.

I'm sorry but the biggest problem with guild wars now is not the programming but the attitude of the developers and you yourself. If you can't do something, fine.

But don't feed us c**p and tell us it's pie.

Firebaall · Jul 18, 2007, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadis

Except the problem we have is that the Party Search Panel is a broken tool in its current form. There is not enough space. This was one of the first things said by various people when it was first introduced. We are baffled that they are promoting this thing when it so obviously needs attending to.

Yeah, that's a great tool they're trying to force us to use.

I'm leaning to the notion that the coder or coders responsible for the "party search" interface suffer from a prima donna complex. I mean, "How dare the player base largely ignore my important work!". "I know....lets force them automatically to engage this wonderful interface!".

Hey, it's good business to force your customers to smell crap, right? I also don't personally buy for a minute that they don't have the resources to fix this. Those type of comments smell worse than the stench of the "party seach" interface does.

Shakti · Jul 18, 2007, 04:47 PM // 16:47

OK I'm gonna add my 2 cents for what they're worth. Decide that for yourself lol.

I am NOT bashing Anet, the dev team or Gaile. I've played since the release of Proph, call me a fan girl. 2 years + and I love GW. I have chatted with Gaile a few times and seen for myself that they DO listen and DO care what fans think/want etc.

On to the...let's say less than positive. I HATE selling. HATE HATE HATE. I'd much rather be running around PLAYING than selling. For this reason (and laziness as well lol) I tend to wait till my mules and storage are packed up tight with mods and stuff before I go a-sellin'. As a seller I like to give as much info as the buyer needs ie mods/req and price. I love haggling but at least the ballpark I'm looking for. I have NEVER spammed All chat in my 2 years, that bugs the crap outta me. I use Trade chat politely, I never spam the same line over and over, I wait awhile between lines etc. In short, I followed the rules and did my best to be a polite and responsible seller.

Now the idea of the Party search was great. The reality with all the character limitation was not generally usable. If I just say WTS mods and inscr. it works, but WHICH mods? How much? No room. This changing your entry to -Party Search- Blah blah is annoying and makes scanning trade more difficult and imho just as clogged and fast as before. I have never resorted to the W T S trick but now I'm going to have to to give buyers any real info on what I need to sell. Please guys, either increase the size limit or scrap this. It is not usable as is and is just going to force those of us who HAVE always followed the rules of trade to work around it.

Molock · Jul 18, 2007, 05:48 PM // 17:48

The idea of party search is excellent... the problem with it is the max of (more of less) 30 characters. Its simple, they could fix this by allowing us to type longer messages. If they fix that, it will be an awesome feature that a lot of people will use.

Master Ketsu · Jul 18, 2007, 05:54 PM // 17:54

As a programmer myself I find it very hard to believe that anet cant find a way around the character limit. To be honest, I dont really care since I dont PvE anyways, but it just seems too unbelievable.

Now I dont know Anets code, but I'll take a shot: Why not just simply program a loophole that tricks it into thinking that the person who made the party advertisement did it twice, and then simply have the second "ghost" connection to the server display the rest of their message, taking up a second line. That way the code would see it as the same as someone else advertising a party below that person, and then you could simply erase the players name for the second line.

Like I said, this is a shot in the dark since I have no idea what your code could possibly be and Ive refrained from saying anything technical because of it. To summarize: I dont believe you that its impossible. If you fooled around with the code enough, Im sure their would be a way. A roundabout way, but a way.

Im not really demanding this from anet...Im just saying it more as a challenge. Im one of those programmers who tends to bash his head on the wall untill he can get around something, so it may be best to ignore me.

Abnaxus · Jul 18, 2007, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

I think some of you need a swift kick in the... excuse me, I believe some of you need a reality check.

How could you even suggest that we don't play, don't care, don't read, don't give you anything, whatever the current beef of the day is?

Consider:

Party Search
Expanded storage
Observer Mode
Reconnects
The Festival Hat NPC
Domain of Anguish
The title system
Hard Mode
Festivals -- modified and new
A bloomin' $100,000 Tournament

The list is darn near endless!

I understand you want more characters in the PS window. Sorry, that is simply not possible with the programming in Guild Wars. It's something we can look at with the new programming and the new engine for Guild Wars 2, but from all that I know, we cannot modify it for the current game.

However, I'd like you to look at the Big Picture, and realize how small that issue is, and how comments like "We never get what we want" are utterly inaccurate, inappropriate, and unfair.

I advocate for fans every day. But I really hope that the other dev team members don't see this thread because, today, I'm totally embarrassed by a few of you and your petulant comments.

The fact that A.net devs team has been able to develop so many features, is the reason that leaves customers surprised for the long series of mistakes occurred when they addressed the problem of WTS spamming in towns.

For the poor computer programming ignorants like me, we see a lot of new features developed from the scratch, like the party search window itself.

As far as we know, it was not an adaptation of something existing in the game before. It was something totally new, a new window with specific features.
It's hard to understand the fact that the current game programming doesn't allow more than 30 characters.
Such explaination would have been more acceptable if, for instance, someone asked to have 200 chars messages in the chat window, or 40 letters for the name of a char. Those thing have been unchanged since the 1st game release, and not added later like the PS window.

So, the PS windows has been designed in the wrong way, plain and simple.

I understand that there are more important deadline for the team, so my guess is that A.net has given this job to a less expert group of programmers, and focused their best resources for GW:EN.

And those programmers made mistakes after mistakes after mistakes until the latest update, that really sound like a joke.
I imagine that even A.net competitors are looking and laughing at it, happy of the negative impact that such hilarious update has on A.net customers.

That said, I don't understand why not adopting the simplest solution, that is creating specific outpost for trading, call them Trade City or Spam City, accessible as soon as a player arrives in Ascalon, Kamadan or Shing Jea, in which players can shamelessly spam their a$$es off, leaving city chat free.

Creating an outpost, with no special environment, just Xunlay storage, merchant and traders, that really would be a joke with all the ultra sophisticated features offered by the developing tools used by A.net.

No, instead they wasted time (and money) to make absurd things like redirecting the WTS to the PS window.
OMG this sounds to me really more complicated to program.

Does the current game engine allow to do this redirection with few instructions, and not to put 30 chars in the PS description, for which GW2 engine is required?

Alfrond · Jul 18, 2007, 07:20 PM // 19:20

I've done a little programming and I know that something that looks really simple to the user might have been a pain to code. Something that looks like it would be easy to fix may be actually really complicated. I don't think A-net is stupid or sadistic. They are doing their best. They know now that some people are having trouble with this new system and insulting them isn't gonna help.

Tifa Superstar · Jul 18, 2007, 09:06 PM // 21:06

I love how all the closet coders suddenly come out the woodwork... /sigh

Simple fact is, changing the char limitation wouldn't be a big task, no matter how you try and spin it. This is not some major change that would require masses of security testing.

Christ.

Xanthar · Jul 18, 2007, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tifa Superstar

Simple fact is, changing the char limitation wouldn't be a big task, no matter how you try and spin it. This is not some major change that would require masses of security testing.

You don't know that. User interfaces are usually constructed by putting elements of a widget toolkit together. As you might imagine, it is highly likely that ANet coded their own widget toolkit in order to realize the user unterface in GW, and the toolkit itself might not have any scrollable widget that can handle "long" lines of text. Now, you might think what you want about this, bad design or whatever, but rewriting the widget to handle long texts would be a major task. The programming itself is not the lions share of the work - Testing that every other interface component in the game using that widget behaves correctly after the fix is. (Even using OO inheritance etc. the entire package might have to be retested - Depending on implementation and assuming worst case of course

)

Of course, that still doesn't mean it's impossible. But given the return on investment (basically new boxes sold) it might very well be infeasible.

All the above being speculation, but it shows how a seemingly trivial change might entail a massive workload.

Aint She Fancy · Jul 18, 2007, 10:46 PM // 22:46

I originally opened this thread to see the thoughts of the community on this update, since I haven't had a change to use all the features.

Right now, I personally don't care one way or another about this update. Sure, things need improvements. That usually happens when something new is implemented.

But there's no need to call the people at Anet idiots. It's a GAME people, if you're upset, walk away, and come back when you've cooled down.

Yes, I agree. It WAS poorly implemented. But this item is very small compared to the big picture of the game. Go farm a bit, go do something else, until they fix it.

I guess it just shows my age.

Bithor the Dog · Jul 19, 2007, 05:56 AM // 05:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aint She Fancy

I originally opened this thread to see the thoughts of the community on this update, since I haven't had a change to use all the features.

Right now, I personally don't care one way or another about this update. Sure, things need improvements. That usually happens when something new is implemented.

But there's no need to call the people at Anet idiots. It's a GAME people, if you're upset, walk away, and come back when you've cooled down.

Yes, I agree. It WAS poorly implemented. But this item is very small compared to the big picture of the game. Go farm a bit, go do something else, until they fix it.

I guess it just shows my age.

I am so with you on this one. I see a lot of hot heads, and the older i get the mellower i become....and i invoke the.."mehhh SH*T happens" clause

I can see why people are upset. It is somewhat forcing them to use the PS when they dont really want to. And that can be a bit frustrating if you dont intend to use it that way.
But i agree, ive learnt that calling people names down the phone usually gets me a "im not being spoken to like that" ....CLICK response.
If i'm congenial, and use my head and ask pertinant questions along with constructive answers, then i get a much better response

Seriously Gaile, I am with you on your reaction, and with others on it too. As my old granny once said, "if ya cant say anything nice, dont say anything at all" I was a sales product manager. And i used to nod, bite my tongue and walk out..get in the car and scream any obcenity i could figure out..
But on the other hand i can see why you said what you said... there does seem to be a lot of "i want this and i want it now" people, like kids at the sweetie stall.

I dont really care about the PS feature. It comes in handy when we call a guild team together in a big area, we just put it in the PS instead now. I rarely trade in game i really use auctions on guru its easier , less time consuming and i can go play the game and kill things, whilst its doing its job in the background.
I really dont get upset about it. I get upset on things like lag....why ...cos it wont let me play the game...i get upset about losing my internet...why ...cos it wont let me play the game.....
The party search feature isnt going to stop you playing the damn game, in anyway shape or form, so i just dont get it, why arent you lot doing that..
If i dont like a TV channel i turn it over or off....if you dont like a feature...dont bloody use it