Curse

fenix · Jul 26, 2007, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by booooYA

That's really not the point Fenix. By doing this they're hoping some bloke will go, "Wow for 30k I can get a Kuunavang." You trade 30k for the weapon and both of them leave. I assume they split the profit and try it elsewhere.

They're not intending to really trade the Kuuna for the staff.

Well duh. The point is, if they were legitimately trading, not just scamming, they'd just trade with each other. Because they AREN'T trading with each other, then it's OBVIOUS that it's a scam.

ShadowsRequiem · Jul 26, 2007, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roshi_ikkyu

I'm just going to say it one last time, [b]It's not a scam![b]

Anyone falling for the 2seller scams is trying to rip one person of, there just as bad as the first pair of seller.

said it perfectly ^

MORAL OF THE STORY:

IF its too good to be true, its a scam.

Chthon · Jul 26, 2007, 01:40 AM // 01:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roshi_ikkyu

Its not considered a scam because,

Person A is offering a price for his item, 30k. You don't have to buy his item but that's how much he wants. He has clearly asked for 30k for it. If you choose to trade u know your getting the item for 30k.
Its not a scam.

Person B apart from attempting to influence your interest in the sale isn't doing anything actively wrong.

BULLSHIT!
It is a scam. Both Person A and Person B have conspired to mislead their victim as to the value of the item. Depending on the variant of the scam, EITHER they are implicitly saying "the general market price of item X is Y, so you can resell it on the general market for Y" knowing that this implied assertion is false, OR they are explicitly saying "an item is worth what someone is willing to pay for it, and I'm willing to pay Y for item X," when they never had any intent to pay their advertised price. In either case, they are lying. In either case, they have the intent to induce someone to rely upon their false statements. In either case, the false statements are material enough to the heart of the deal that the deal only happens if someone believes the false statements they have made. That's common law fraud -- and that's always a "scam" by any reasonable definition of the word. Period.

Quote:

Problem is you can't prove there working together...
You won't get any charges to stick...

You are confusing issues of proof with issues of definition. A rose is a rose; a fish is a fish; and a scam is a scam. Period. Whether or not you can prove these things has no impact whatsoever on their truth. Assume for a moment that my eyes are blue. I'm pretty sure you are utterly unable to prove that my eyes are blue, but your inability to prove it does not in any way make them not-blue. Similarly, inability to prove that a certain occurrence was a scam does not make it any less a scam. It merely makes it difficult to punish.

Loviatar · Jul 26, 2007, 02:12 AM // 02:12

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

BULLSHIT!
In either case, they are lying. In either case, they have the intent to induce someone to rely upon their false statements.

wrong

they are looking for a scammer who carries big bucks right on them who knows the real value of the other item is vastly higher.

the so called victem knows what it is worth and stumbles over himself to be first in line to trade the item for the minipet/whatever.

the so called victem is trying to scam the mini kuuna for a 30k item.

a normal noob doesnt carry/have cash like that to begin with

TheLichMonky · Jul 26, 2007, 02:15 AM // 02:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

BULLSHIT!
It is a scam. Both Person A and Person B have conspired to mislead their victim as to the value of the item. Depending on the variant of the scam, EITHER they are implicitly saying "the general market price of item X is Y, so you can resell it on the general market for Y" knowing that this implied assertion is false, OR they are explicitly saying "an item is worth what someone is willing to pay for it, and I'm willing to pay Y for item X," when they never had any intent to pay their advertised price. In either case, they are lying. In either case, they have the intent to induce someone to rely upon their false statements. In either case, the false statements are material enough to the heart of the deal that the deal only happens if someone believes the false statements they have made. That's common law fraud -- and that's always a "scam" by any reasonable definition of the word. Period.

Its not a scam then, if the person buying an item doesnt know the value LOOK IT UP they are selling an item to you in a legal trade.. like others have sai, stop being morons and falling for it

Sirus Dibley · Jul 26, 2007, 02:15 AM // 02:15

What a cheekly little scam that is. It's almost like Oliver Twist's fagan has set up shop in Lions Arch.

You've got too pick a pocket or two !

Gli · Jul 26, 2007, 02:32 AM // 02:32

People, this is a scam.

This is a very famous type of con that's been run for decades in the real world, if not centuries. It even has several names, like "Glim-dropper" and "fiddle game". There is literature about this type of scam. The trick is to appeal to another person's greed. Tricking an immoral person out of his money is no less a scam than tricking an innocent. If you think this isn't a scam, you have no idea what the word scam means. Famous conmen in history have pulled this off for large amounts of real money, and bragged about it.

The confusion probably arises from the fact that it is a good scam. Any scam that can leave bystanders or even the victim wondering if a scam has been pulled, is a good scam. If it can even leave the authorities powerless to intervene, it's a great scam. But how can there be any doubt? Two people conspiring to trick other people out of money, that's a scam. Period.

I saw people running this scam with a "Gordac's Holy Rod for 50k" and a "Bone Dragon minipet for Gordac's Holy Rod". I bet they didn't just try to sell 1 rod. They probably bought a load of them for a few plats a piece, and they're probably laughing all the way to the bank.

whitedragon · Jul 26, 2007, 02:43 AM // 02:43

Hmm if it is a scam (and i think it is) and if you think someone should be banned then all three should be banned. Person A person B and person C

All are clearly trying to make extra profit. Person A and person B for there part
and person C for (C) hopes that (B) dont see (A) asking for what (Bs) got.

So (C) is trying to scam (B)

Seraphic Divinity · Jul 26, 2007, 02:52 AM // 02:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by korcan

i wouldnt consider these types of people "scammers" but rather ingenious traders.

if you consider these people "scammers" then all power traders would also be considered "scammers".

most power traders take advantage of people who dont know prices to make a profit these people are simply exploiting greed to make a profit. whats worse? if anything, id say exploiting noobs for profit is worse then exploiting greed.

qft

I have to admit, that's a pretty ingenius idea of them :P
although, it would be considered spam on the part of the person trading the Kuuna and spam is not tolerated.
If you don't think its considered spam then I'll get 100+alliance friends to go to AD1 Kamadan and have them all say "Selling Mini Gwen 10k" in trade chat, that's the equivalent of what he's doing, therefore the person trading the kuunavang is breaching EULA and deserves to be banned.

Gli · Jul 26, 2007, 02:53 AM // 02:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roshi_ikkyu

I'm just going to say it one last time, [b]It's not a scam!

It's not a scam, so you say...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roshi_ikkyu

Anyone falling for the 2seller scams is trying to rip one person of, there just as bad as the first pair of seller.

But wait, suddenly it is a scam?

Confused much? Make up your mind.

Seraphic Divinity · Jul 26, 2007, 02:55 AM // 02:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by korcan

i wouldnt consider these types of people "scammers" but rather ingenious traders.

if you consider these people "scammers" then all power traders would also be considered "scammers".

most power traders take advantage of people who dont know prices to make a profit these people are simply exploiting greed to make a profit. whats worse? if anything, id say exploiting noobs for profit is worse then exploiting greed.

qft

I have to admit, that's a pretty ingenius idea of them :P
although, it would be considered spam on the part of the person trading the Kuuna and spam is not tolerated.
If you don't think its considered spam then I'll get 100+alliance friends to go to AD1 Kamadan and have them all say "Selling Mini Gwen 10k" in trade chat, that's the equivalent of what he's doing, therefore the person trading the kuunavang is breaching EULA and deserves to be banned.

Omniclasm · Jul 26, 2007, 02:58 AM // 02:58

It is a scam, but it is really hard to show sympathy for someone who fell for it, or people who fall for it. It is worse than falling for a dupe trick. At least falling for a dupe trick, you are not ripping anyone off, just trying to make an easy buck. Falling for this scam means you are trying to rip someone off and make 50k+ off of them.

All scams take advantage of people.

Scams that take advantage of new people are lame such as buying black dye for 200 gold. Selling them a non-max blue for 500-1k and telling them it owns.

Scams that take advantage of experienced people are kind of lame, but its the victims fault for not thinking. "Drop your item so I can see it, I am an aggro bubble away", "Running xxx 1k before 1k after", Item swapping in trade box. It sucks that you got scammed, but it's your own fault. Think before you act.

Scams that take advantage of people trying to take advantage are just funny. Dupe Tricks, and this one. You are trying to trick someone from the other two categories, but you got scammed yourself. The only response I have to people that fall for that is....LOL

Voltar · Jul 26, 2007, 04:03 AM // 04:03

yeah, since people can't play commercials in-game, they have to create artificial value this way. it's dishonest but so is everything on tv.

after all, common sense tells us: if something looks too good to be true, IMMEDIATELY JUMP IN HEAD-FIRST!

Voltar · Jul 26, 2007, 04:08 AM // 04:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omniclasm

Scams that take advantage of people trying to take advantage are just funny.

qft. anyone trying to buy something useless to sell it for even more gold is equally guilty...if it's something that should make someone feel guilty.

dopple · Jul 26, 2007, 04:11 AM // 04:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

People, this is a scam.

This is a very famous type of con that's been run for decades in the real world, if not centuries. It even has several names, like "Glim-dropper" and "fiddle game". There is literature about this type of scam. The trick is to appeal to another person's greed. Tricking an immoral person out of his money is no less a scam than tricking an innocent. If you think this isn't a scam, you have no idea what the word scam means. Famous conmen in history have pulled this off for large amounts of real money, and bragged about it.

The confusion probably arises from the fact that it is a good scam. Any scam that can leave bystanders or even the victim wondering if a scam has been pulled, is a good scam. If it can even leave the authorities powerless to intervene, it's a great scam. But how can there be any doubt? Two people conspiring to trick other people out of money, that's a scam. Period.

QFT. This post has it all right. This is a scam. It works by appealing to the greed of the victim, yes. But it is still a scam.

Check:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confidence_trick

The fiddle game is a variation on the pigeon drop. A pair of con men work together, one going into an expensive restaurant in shabby clothes, eating, and claiming to have left his wallet at home, which is nearby. As collateral, the con man leaves his only worldly possession, the violin that provides his livelihood. After he leaves, the second con man swoops in, offers an outrageously large amount (for example, $50,000) for such a rare instrument, then looks at his watch and runs off to an appointment, leaving his card for the mark to call him when the fiddle-owner returns. The mark's greed comes into play when the "poor man" comes back, having gotten the money to pay for his meal and redeem his violin. The mark, thinking he has an offer on the table, then buys the violin from the fiddle player (who "reluctantly" sells it eventually for, say, $5,000). The result is the two con men are $5,000 richer (less the cost of the violin), and the mark is left with a cheap instrument. (This trick is also detailed in the Neil Gaiman novel American Gods and is the basis for The Streets' song "Can't Con an Honest John".)

OI-812 · Jul 26, 2007, 04:20 AM // 04:20

The fact that it depends on the greed of the mark to be successful makes it perfectly acceptable in my book. Karma's a b*tch, huh, greedy types?

arcanemacabre · Jul 26, 2007, 04:24 AM // 04:24

Two wrongs never make a right... no matter how funny it is.

Omniclasm · Jul 26, 2007, 04:27 AM // 04:27

If you want to use that saying then sure...

I like to use, "What goes around comes around"

arcanemacabre · Jul 26, 2007, 04:39 AM // 04:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omniclasm

If you want to use that saying then sure...

I like to use, "What goes around comes around"

So when do the scammers get what's coming to them? Otherwise it's pretty one-sided with cost/reward, despite both sides being wrong.

OI-812 · Jul 26, 2007, 04:44 AM // 04:44

The scammers may or may not get what is coming to them - they have simply been unwittingly employed as agents of karma delivery. Perhaps there is some other aspect of their life which will suffer due to their in-game dishonesty - even if they get away with it in GW, real life may have an unpleasant surprise for them. Maybe, maybe not. Karma's a b*tch, but it's a fickle one.