Curse

Bryant Again · Jul 24, 2007, 04:36 AM // 04:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

I don't know why you tried to direct it towards the GW player base, my criticism of the WoW player base was towards them not understanding sarcasm.

The Wow player base? Serious??? Dude, the WoW forums are filled with the most unserious and sarcastic people ever in the history of the internet.

And the article linked from the op, I'm pretty sure that it is (unfortunately) serious.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

Because, its stupid how everyone boasts about WoW's popularity. And then, you get press release such as this.

I'm not sure, what's wrong with what's in the link?

Wretchman Drake · Jul 24, 2007, 04:46 AM // 04:46

Why do you people try to compare the two? I suscribe to WoW and have over 2400+ hours on GW, so I know both games and treat them equally good. They're both good in their own ways, and I don't think one is better than the other because both have pros and cons. GW is great with syncronized PvP groups on a vent and the campaigns are great first time thru. WoW rewards you for crafting your character to be higher level and have better gear, and you feel better about your character because unlike GW, you gotta work for good armor, not just "Run to Droks/Kaneing/Consulate Docks for Max Armor"...

Besides, if you have a job and like WoW, you can pay it easily... $12 a month is really nothing that should be complained about. I spend more a month on fast food ffs...

Bryant Again · Jul 24, 2007, 04:55 AM // 04:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wretchman Drake

Besides, if you have a job and like WoW, you can pay it easily... $12 a month is really nothing that should be complained about. I spend more a month on fast food ffs...

Just 50 cents a day, really.

DreamRunner · Jul 24, 2007, 06:55 AM // 06:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

The Wow player base? Serious??? Dude, the WoW forums are filled with the most unserious and sarcastic people ever in the history of the internet.

And the article linked from the op, I'm pretty sure that it is (unfortunately) serious.

I'm not sure, what's wrong with what's in the link?

Zinger, posted about the OP's article on the WoW forums, using sarcasm. Some posters in the WoW forums took it seriously, see 2nd poster. I criticized Zinger saying even though he is trying to defending WoW, he got attacked by the WoW player base. Somehow Omega X is desperately trying to defend by saying sarcasm on the internet is hard to find.

I think you should see the whole thread.

Superdarth · Jul 24, 2007, 08:15 AM // 08:15

WoW and Guild Wars are two diffrent games, they can not, i repeat CAN NOT be compared to each other. They are very diffrent in how they work, amuse, appeal and playstyle its like comparing a car with a bycicle.

That said there are some things the two games can be judged on. One of them being the effort put in by the companies, over the years ive seen A-net improve Guild Wars massively while WoW's quality has seen steady decline, although it has been improved with new content it did not nearly improve as much as Guild Wars, perhaps even ending up worse then when it started.

Bryant Again · Jul 24, 2007, 08:19 AM // 08:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

Zinger, posted about the OP's article on the WoW forums, using sarcasm. Some posters in the WoW forums took it seriously, see 2nd poster. I criticized Zinger saying even though he is trying to defending WoW, he got attacked by the WoW player base. Somehow Omega X is desperately trying to defend by saying sarcasm on the internet is hard to find.

I think you should see the whole thread.

Aight, saw Zingers's and Omega's stuff, agreed with both.

Now what's with the link you posted?

DreamRunner · Jul 24, 2007, 12:57 PM // 12:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Aight, saw Zingers's and Omega's stuff, agreed with both.

Now what's with the link you posted?

The link, was backing up my point about WoW's popularity. Nothing of the link itself is bad, but players indulge themselves on about how big WoW is, and how popular it is. The link was making players more so indulge themselves on seeing how popular WoW is. But the actual population of WoW, is different than the one is seen by most of the public.

Thats why I had 3 points.
1. The WoW population in the U.S is around 2.25 million, not 8.
2. WoW population is broken up into servers, 100+ in the US alone.
3. You can play with the WHOLE world of GW, but not in WoW, which has less options in grouping with other people. eg. You can play with people in Europe and Asia but not in WoW. Its done, by servers.

ChaoticCoyote · Jul 24, 2007, 01:08 PM // 13:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superdarth

WoW and Guild Wars are two diffrent games, they can not, i repeat CAN NOT be compared to each other. They are very diffrent in how they work, amuse, appeal and playstyle its like comparing a car with a bycicle.

QFT. It's like people arguing religion or politics, and equally non-productive. Some peopel (like myself) actually like BOTH games.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superdarth

That said there are some things the two games can be judged on. One of them being the effort put in by the companies, over the years ive seen A-net improve Guild Wars massively while WoW's quality has seen steady decline, although it has been improved with new content it did not nearly improve as much as Guild Wars, perhaps even ending up worse then when it started.

I would strongly disagree with ther above; I think that GW has actually gotten WORSE in many ways. Too many classes and skills have made balance impossible; constant nerfs have undermined whole classes and skill lines; new content has made the game less inclusive.

Even ANet realizes this, which is why they'ev said that they're doing GW2.

WoW, like all big MMOs, has a problem with stagnation as the population mean level edges higher. I'm having fun because I enjoy the journey, not the destination -- and my goals for level 70 are quite different from what most people are locked into. Like life, it's all in how you approach what you're doing.

Bryant Again · Jul 24, 2007, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

The link, was backing up my point about WoW's popularity. Nothing of the link itself is bad, but players indulge themselves on about how big WoW is, and how popular it is. The link was making players more so indulge themselves on seeing how popular WoW is. But the actual population of WoW, is different than the one is seen by most of the public.

I don't know what you're saying. You're telling me WoW isn't popular? Are you saying Blizz lied about how popular it is in the US? The announcement that you linked to said "8 Million Subscribers worldwide". So did you somehow assume that it was the most popular in the US? Or something? What?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

2. WoW population is broken up into servers, 100+ in the US alone.
3. You can play with the WHOLE world of GW, but not in WoW, which has less options in grouping with other people. eg. You can play with people in Europe and Asia but not in WoW. Its done, by servers.

This is not a problem because that's the price of persistant servers - and it's a price that I, like many, am willing to pay.

assassin_of_ni · Jul 24, 2007, 05:34 PM // 17:34

the problem that was posed with making everyone able to interact with one another on one massive server was:

1: lag lag omg the lag....try an imagine 8 million other people on one server...of course there would almost never be the entire WoW populace on at once but even more so the server would be overloaded the second it kicked on

2:the fact that it is a persistant world instead of fully instanced means that when doing quests that require killing a specific enemy...there would be be a line of people fighting to get the kill...and the group who brought the lvl 70 along would more than likely be the one to win. on top of that since they have the trade skill professions youde hafta worry about someone camping one mining node or one herbalism plant and thus youde hafta go way out of your way to find one.

3:the economy. guild wars is run off of an npc economy with a supply/demand basis when it comes to the material traders and the dye trader and what have you. WoW does not possess this but it does produce a better player to player economy structure by using the trade skills. example being on one server you may have more plate armor wearing people than cloth...so an armorsmith can sometimes be a great decision to make lots of money whereas on another server you may have more leather wearing people so a leatherworker would thus work. then you count in "rare" recipes,patterns,formulas, etc etc that can only be attained by the faction opposite to your own so when you come across one of these its a huuuge money maker. in GW the only real way i can see a flexible player economy is the way certain items are being farmed, how many are on the market, the stats and rarity of the item, and the difficulty of farming the item. i.e. ghails staff when it first came out only a few people really knew how to farm it and they were selling at an average of 50k since a lot of other people could only 3-5 man farm ghails. after a while the builds got out, it got easier, and more ghails staff's showed up in the market so the price dropped to an average of 30k ish. if the entire WoW world were able to interact with eachother this is pretty much how the player based economy would turn out. basing off of the stats, rarity, and difficulty to attain the item would be.

as it is right now even in a full server (which i have characters in) you seldomly run into other people and really disrupt them with the exception of a popular farming/grinding area.

dont mind the long posts...im at work and have nothing better to do =D

Zinger314 · Jul 24, 2007, 05:41 PM // 17:41

New press release: WoW hit 9 million

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreamrunner

3. You can play with the WHOLE world of GW, but not in WoW, which has less options in grouping with other people. eg. You can play with people in Europe and Asia but not in WoW. Its done, by servers.

WoW has "less options" of grouping with other people?! It has 5 man, 10 man, and 25 man groups, plus a global LFG channel. I have no clue what you are talking about.

I like WoW's persistant world with respect to grouping rather than GW's "you-must-stay-in-the-town-spamming-endlessly-for-a-group." You can do other things while looking for a group in WoW, yet in Guild Wars, you have to spam LFG in Gate of Madness....

Ninna · Jul 24, 2007, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

You can do other things while looking for a group in WoW, yet in Guild Wars, you have to spam LFG in Gate of Madness....

this is a valid point and hopefully GW2 will do something similar

in GW,
being stuck at an outpost to LFG is annoying

I enjoy both games but I do wish WoW was less gear dependent

phoenixar · Jul 25, 2007, 11:41 AM // 11:41

WoW is a grindfest.. it's all about grinding for better gear. And PvP is a joke in WoW.. class balance > gear > luck > skill. WoW also as a monthly fee.. and the devs are a bunch of imbeciles who never listen to anyone else.

DreamRunner · Jul 25, 2007, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

I don't know what you're saying. You're telling me WoW isn't popular? Are you saying Blizz lied about how popular it is in the US? The announcement that you linked to said "8 Million Subscribers worldwide". So did you somehow assume that it was the most popular in the US? Or something? What?

This is not a problem because that's the price of persistant servers - and it's a price that I, like many, am willing to pay.

... Ok, if you really do not understand, I'll simplify for you.

If, I got a player base that enjoys being a part of a popular game. And Blizzard releases a report towards the public thats it getting bigger. And being WoW, I'm sure Blizzard get a lot of coverage by the media. That will get a lot of attention, yeah?

Nevertheless, the population that is seen by the public is the big number, 8 million... well 9 now, thanks to Zingers posts. But the actual population is that people play in the US is around 2 million, for numbers sake, however that population is further downside with 100+ servers. So... how many do you play with?

Like, how you are willing to pay for WoW servers that have downtime once a week for maintenance that go for 6 hours a time. Not to mention at the Prime time for Australians.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

New press release: WoW hit 9 million

WoW has "less options" of grouping with other people?! It has 5 man, 10 man, and 25 man groups, plus a global LFG channel. I have no clue what you are talking about.

I like WoW's persistant world with respect to grouping rather than GW's "you-must-stay-in-the-town-spamming-endlessly-for-a-group." You can do other things while looking for a group in WoW, yet in Guild Wars, you have to spam LFG in Gate of Madness....

Yes, it does have less options. Its population is set by servers which aren't connected for the 5 man, 10 man or 25 man groups. If I got someone in the U.S, that person cant connect to someone in the Europe at all in WoW. Let alone to another server for a dungeon. However in GW you can, And you can change your home territory in GW too.

Bryant Again · Jul 25, 2007, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

So... how many do you play with?

In regards to that, I see what you mean. But is Guild Wars really a whole lot better?

Yes, Guild Wars isn't seperated by servers. Cool, right? Not really. Instead it's seperated by outposts. In order to find a group for anything, I need to stay seated in an outpost and spam my heart away. This wouldn't be so bad if the party search feature was global, so I could put in party search "LFG - HM Sanctum" while I go out and farm. But unfortunately, it's only usuable in outposts, so it doesn't solve the problem, just makes it easier on the spamming.

Let me ask you this...If finding people in Guild Wars was so much better and easier, then why were heroes implemented?

(I just realized ANet is saying the same thing, as well: 3 million campaigns sold worldwide.)

DreamRunner · Jul 27, 2007, 03:10 AM // 03:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

In regards to that, I see what you mean. But is Guild Wars really a whole lot better?

Yes, Guild Wars isn't seperated by servers. Cool, right? Not really. Instead it's seperated by outposts. In order to find a group for anything, I need to stay seated in an outpost and spam my heart away. This wouldn't be so bad if the party search feature was global, so I could put in party search "LFG - HM Sanctum" while I go out and farm. But unfortunately, it's only usuable in outposts, so it doesn't solve the problem, just makes it easier on the spamming.

Let me ask you this...If finding people in Guild Wars was so much better and easier, then why were heroes implemented?

(I just realized ANet is saying the same thing, as well: 3 million campaigns sold worldwide.)

Yes GW is better. Because you can not only change your territory, but you can also also connect to everyone in the world. It doesn't limit people as a whole to different branches of the same game, like WoW does. If I play a game, I want to connect to people, especially friends, without having to pre-organise anything.

But as to your second question, maybe the same reason why henchies were implemented? However, with Heroes its the next level up to henchies with customization.

Bryant Again · Jul 27, 2007, 06:37 AM // 06:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

Yes GW is better. Because you can not only change your territory, but you can also also connect to everyone in the world. It doesn't limit people as a whole to different branches of the same game, like WoW does.

How are you connecting with "everyone in the world"? The International District? I rarely see anyone in those, unless we're playing completely different games. Changing territories? I would agree with you there wasn't a limit to territory changes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

If I play a game, I want to connect to people, especially friends, without having to pre-organise anything.

I really don't see how you could play with people in different territories without pre-organizing something.

DreamRunner · Jul 27, 2007, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

How are you connecting with "everyone in the world"? The International District? I rarely see anyone in those, unless we're playing completely different games. Changing territories? I would agree with you there wasn't a limit to territory changes.

I really don't see how you could play with people in different territories without pre-organizing something.

I'm guessing we are playing two different games. Because as you should know, people who do PvP, fight people in other countries across the board all the time. TA\RA\GVG, god damn, even the whole HA who people fight over favour for their territory! So yeah, I am connecting to many people in the world.

The international district is just a way for people who have friends can play with each other. But it doesn't really matter if you see anyone there, its a way for people to connect and I'm sure if Anet did take it away, then a lot of people would be against it and make a huge amount of people in the player base angry.

And, what if I meet someone new? I used an example before about meeting someone new and find that we both play the same game, but unfortunately WoW doesn't have the option of us playing together with our current characters unless one has to pay MORE money. Even with paying each month as well!
People meet new people all the time through the internet, as well as outside. So, why limit that? Nevertheless in GW, you can even be in the same guild as people in different territories.

Gaidax · Jul 27, 2007, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

I'm guessing we are playing two different games. Because as you should know, people who do PvP, fight people in other countries across the board all the time. TA\RA\GVG, god damn, even the whole HA who people fight over favour for their territory! So yeah, I am connecting to many people in the world.

WoW PvP is not single server as well, you know. They made battlegroups of 10 servers each for it and people PvP in a battlegroups. 10 WoW severs is a friggin lot of players! So? You are also connecting to many people in the world there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

And, what if I meet someone new? I used an example before about meeting someone new and find that we both play the same game, but unfortunately WoW doesn't have the option of us playing together with our current characters unless one has to pay MORE money. Even with paying each month as well!

There is an option for server transfer. Yes it costs money, but it is there.

Overall I think you fail to realise that the WoW limitations you try to show us so hard are based on a simple fact - their world is persistent and only a small bit of it instanced. This fact by itself beats all of your player interaction agenda.

In GW your only chance to launch an active interaction with a new player is by sitting in the outpost as that is the only place where you can meet each other for a first time, unless you use a help of some outside forums, chatboxes or whatever other mass contact means. Even worse - heroes and henchmen while an amasing tool - reduce the chances for player interaction even further. You can basically storm through all the single player without grouping another player once and many many people do just that of convinience, like me...

All the life in GW is concentrated in outposts - get outside and it is a dead wasteland of NPC's only...

In WoW on the countrary you can basically meet and group people all over the game - would it be some town or a simple wilderness grind mission or whatever other outside activity you do. Based on my WoW and GW experience - it is MUCH easier to gather a good friends list in WoW, just because of persistence advantages and lack of the hero/hench.

Also viewing Wow maintenance as something bad is plain wrong - it is no brainer there - WoW ingame/outside Customer Service and Tech Support are much better than GW (that's what we pay them for each month, after all).

Scheduled weekly maintenance is a blessing - it prevents many problems that otherwise would occur and eliminates many problems existing - that's why you don't see all the mass lag issues in WoW - those are being hunted down and fixed the moment they come up. Of course there are still personal problems but you hardly see things like in GW when people are forced to switch regions because of lag.

*EDIT* Also we don't have to deal with 3rd party forums and their problems there as well. A living, supported by developer game forum is wonderful both for support and player interaction there.

Bryant Again · Jul 27, 2007, 07:41 PM // 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

I'm guessing we are playing two different games. Because as you should know, people who do PvP, fight people in other countries across the board all the time. TA\RA\GVG, god damn, even the whole HA who people fight over favour for their territory! So yeah, I am connecting to many people in the world.

PvP and PvE are two completely different aspects of the game. Hell, they're basically two seperate games, when you think about it.

...But I thought we were talking about PvE? Because there's nothing wrong with finding people for PvP. Be a little more consistant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

The international district is just a way for people who have friends can play with each other.

How do you make those friends? How do you meet new people? That's the gist of this.