Curse

Chthon · Aug 05, 2007, 03:46 AM // 03:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by countesscorpula

"Fixed the skill "Vampirism" so that it now steals the correct amount of damage. "

Still doesn't trigger "Painful Bond" anymore. Bloodsong does, and it's darn near the same wording. Any chance this will get fixed before another fortnight passes?

Yeah. That's a major pain. Well, at leadt it's halfway fixed...

Miral · Aug 05, 2007, 04:23 AM // 04:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

On the contrary, PvPers tend to push for nerfs on skills that AREN'T used tactically. Grenth's dervishes, for example, allowed you to mindlessly mash on buttons until a trained target died. This took away from the tactics of melee, people no longer had to change targets, spike things, interrupt monks, etc.

PvPers tend to bitch that everything they don't specifically use is both effortless and overpowered. PvPers also tend to use their own specialized effortless overpowered builds while bitching about everyone elses.

around · Aug 05, 2007, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Miral-just out of interest: how would you beat hexway?

Dr Strangelove · Aug 05, 2007, 05:32 AM // 05:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

PvPers tend to bitch that everything they don't specifically use is both effortless and overpowered. PvPers also tend to use their own specialized effortless overpowered builds while bitching about everyone elses.

Actually, you have that completely wrong. PvPers are capable of switching builds faster than you switch arguments. Most good guilds are capable of running just about every template that sees play at any given time. Some things, like ritspike, aren't fun for anyone involved, but you run them because you want to win. PvPers would like a nerf to ritspike because it's a boring metagame. It's just not fun to either run ritspike or a counter to ritspike.

From my many hours in PvE, I'd say it's PvE that is more tied to it's beloved builds. This is why hardcore PvE people claim the sky is falling whenever their beloved and holy build gets a nerf. To be honest, I'll bet you've got yourself whipped into a fervor because some overpowered build you ran got smacked by the nerf bat. I'm sorry your build got killed, but honestly.

On vampirism - It's not a projectile, which does have some bonuses. It attacks through walls, and kd's/interruption don't stop the damage. Still wish they'd fix it, though. Someone find an exploit for the nonprojectile thing so it goes up on the priority list

.

Miral · Aug 05, 2007, 05:49 AM // 05:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Actually, you have that completely wrong. PvPers are capable of switching builds faster than you switch arguments. Most good guilds are capable of running just about every template that sees play at any given time. Some things, like ritspike, aren't fun for anyone involved, but you run them because you want to win. PvPers would like a nerf to ritspike because it's a boring metagame. It's just not fun to either run ritspike or a counter to ritspike.

From my many hours in PvE, I'd say it's PvE that is more tied to it's beloved builds. This is why hardcore PvE people claim the sky is falling whenever their beloved and holy build gets a nerf. To be honest, I'll bet you've got yourself whipped into a fervor because some overpowered build you ran got smacked by the nerf bat. I'm sorry your build got killed, but honestly.

On vampirism - It's not a projectile, which does have some bonuses. It attacks through walls, and kd's/interruption don't stop the damage. Still wish they'd fix it, though. Someone find an exploit for the nonprojectile thing so it goes up on the priority list

.

its not fun being nerfed either. class nerfs can bring about a feeling similar to buyer's remorse for quite a lot of people. Like I said, if you want to switch up the rules within the PVP areas so that certain things aren't viable, that's perfectly fine. But leave game-wide skill and class nerfs out of the picture. when the skills themselves aren't overpowered without a specific build, its best to only leave skill nerfs as a last resort. otherwise you end up with skills like jagged bones that go from being abused in HA, to being considered a nearly worthless elite. or classes like the paragon, who aren't even considered in most PVE groups because of all the nerfs they've recieved due to synergy with other classes.

countesscorpula · Aug 05, 2007, 07:25 AM // 07:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

On vampirism - It's not a projectile, which does have some bonuses.
.

It was a projectile... then the stealth nerf/bug hit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

It attacks through walls, and kd's/interruption don't stop the damage. Still wish they'd fix it, though. .

It attacks through obstacles, it is affected by knock down (confirmed on warrior level of Dragon's Lair), didn't test interuptions.

Would be nice to have it fixed, or in a worse case have an update note stating/explaining the change from projectile to non-projectile.

Dr Strangelove · Aug 05, 2007, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by countesscorpula

It attacks through obstacles, it is affected by knock down (confirmed on warrior level of Dragon's Lair), didn't test interuptions.

Ah, you're right. For some reason giant stomp wasn't working on it.

Muspellsheimr · Aug 05, 2007, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

It's just not fun to either run ritspike or a counter to ritspike.

Reminds me of Affinity/Ravager...

God I hated Mirrodin Block.

Pandora's box · Aug 05, 2007, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Why do so many of you hate hack & slash builds? They are the core of every rpg and mmorpg. I strongly suspect this hatred is equally proportional to the failure of those players to make good chr's in hack & slash games. So better skilled players now rule? C'mon lol! The only thing you need to know is how to aggroo.

This has nothing to do with skills, its just another attempt of Anet to make players socialize and stick together in parties. A bad sign of GW2. Because the vast majority of online gamers are causual players who like to play every now and than for an hour or so, and don't have time to look for parties.

Muspellsheimr · Aug 05, 2007, 10:13 PM // 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandora's box

The only thing you need to know is how to aggroo.

Aggro is a PvE term - this update has NOTHING to do with PvE. And making a powergame hack-and-slash character is by far the EASIEST thing to do in most RPG's, and the reason they are often referred to as "roll playing games".

Go somewhere else, where you know what you are talking about.

RhanoctJocosa · Aug 06, 2007, 07:37 AM // 07:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

As I've pointed out, the skills themselves are NOT overpowered, it is how they are being used that might be powerful. but its not overpowered either! slap some prot magic on and ZOMG THE SPIKE DID NOTHING! kill off their spirits with spiritual pain and ZOMG THE SPIKE DID HALF OF WHAT IT NORMALLY DOES!

Balance doesn't have to be about all numbers. buff doesn't have to mean it does 1000 damage. "Some mesmer interupts can now interupt chants" remember that update? A buff to mesmers to combat a paragon team build. THAT is acceptable balance. just give a class a way to strip weapon spells in PvP, or give rangers a spirit that keeps other spirits from being summoned in the area, or give a class a skill that does something like "if attacker is under the effects of a weapon spell, all damage against target is reduced by x.....y.

or, change the rules of combat in the battle areas themselves. either with environment effects, or hard caps on what can be done within the arena.

don't nerf what isn't overpowered because of its potential in certain situations. It is perfect as is outside of that specific build.

I agree with you, if more monks used prot spirit in tombs there would be no more Rt spike and therefore no reason to nerf it!

Also, on a serious note, atm I think WoW<GW because locks are ridiculous. dot/lifetap lol wut gg?

manitoba1073 · Aug 06, 2007, 07:50 AM // 07:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by spawnofebil

Miral-just out of interest: how would you beat hexway?

Suppose you've never heard of choking gas. not only does it work on hexway but tons of others combine with dual shot for more fun. Then I suppose those will be considered as overpowered now seeing the number of builds it can stop, granted not on there own but highly efffective.

Miral · Aug 06, 2007, 07:58 AM // 07:58

hehe i love choking gas

a while ago in my old guild there was this guy that had a N/E high damage build that he could beat almost anyone with... well I went in scrimmage with my ranger and a personal choking gas build and made him look like level 1 fodder

fenix · Aug 06, 2007, 08:05 AM // 08:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

hehe i love choking gas

a while ago in my old guild there was this guy that had a N/E high damage build that he could beat almost anyone with... well I went in scrimmage with my ranger and a personal choking gas build and made him look like level 1 fodder

You mean you read about the N/E build on guru, and you read about Choking Gas on guru, and made up a story about you scrimming with it.

Don't post about PvP unless you play it. Your suggestions to beat Rit Spike are terrible.

E.V.A · Aug 06, 2007, 08:05 AM // 08:05

Still need to take out Heroes from GvG...otherwise seems like nice update...

RhanoctJocosa · Aug 06, 2007, 08:06 AM // 08:06

cg rangers are only good for interrupting ghostly heroes.

RhanoctJocosa · Aug 06, 2007, 08:12 AM // 08:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

why not make it so assassins and elementalists and rangers can't spike either? since we're on a nerf what hurts ya run.

do you see groups of 8 assassins/elementalists/rangers running around tombs winning via 3, 2, 1?

Miral · Aug 06, 2007, 08:14 AM // 08:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

You mean you read about the N/E build on guru, and you read about Choking Gas on guru, and made up a story about you scrimming with it.

Don't post about PvP unless you play it. Your suggestions to beat Rit Spike are terrible.

wow assume much? no, that really did happen. I do pvp occasionally and am not that bad at it, just prefer not to usually. the guy might have gotten the build off guru or wiki, I have no idea, I wasn't really paying attention to forums or anything at the time. but he thought it was unbeatable, but a quick choking gas (which by the by I had already been using in PvE at the time) shut him down quite well. That was actually a pretty fun scrimmage that day, close match, me and an A/D vs. him and a warrior, barely won at VoD thanks to using the map well with ranged attacks

T'was actually a decent guild, shame most of them left the game...

around · Aug 06, 2007, 08:24 AM // 08:24

Quote:

Suppose you've never heard of choking gas. not only does it work on hexway but tons of others combine with dual shot for more fun. Then I suppose those will be considered as overpowered now seeing the number of builds it can stop, granted not on there own but highly efffective.

Right, here's what would happen with choking gas:

Faintheartedness on the cgas, covered by price of failure, parasitic bond and a bunch of other crap.

You arrows how shoot once every 232513461 years. Have fun trying to interrupt someone with that.

Oh, and cgas will probably get dshotted. GG

Miral · Aug 06, 2007, 08:25 AM // 08:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

do you see groups of 8 assassins/elementalists/rangers running around tombs winning via 3, 2, 1?

tombs is a PvE area now... and that would be a yes, with BP. But assuming you meant Heroes Ascent, yes still, I've seen a few non-rt spike builds that worked perfectly fine. honestly, none of the PvP builds really take much more skill than any others. PvP comes down to 3 things:
1. preparing a build to be ready for what you may face
2. reaction time (and connection speed)
3. tactical timing.
if you think you have a build that can be powerful and somehow requires more than that in the way of skill, feel free to post it. but with the way guild wars is set up, most of it comes down to timing, which is exactly what a spike utilizes to its fullest advantage.

oh and yes, PvE comes down to those three things as well, with of course the added element of casual storytelling. main difference of course being that you start with a decent idea of what you will be facing, making the first point a bit easier.