Curse

Firebaall · Jun 19, 2007, 08:40 PM // 20:40

This is going to be a difficult issue to bring up, and discuss fairly (much bias on the subject exists). With the introduction of "Legendary Defender of Ascalon", and the reintroduction of death leveling as a means to obtain it has made playing in pre-searing a legitimate part of this game. Some people want to grab the title, and then move on (some prefer to have permanent pre-searing characters). Fair enough.

Now let me say that I have a few items not normally available in pre-searing (mostly salvaged runes), so I am speaking from a position of the "haves", instead of the "have-nots". The vocal minority against having fair access for other players are those that are profiting from exploitative actions (using the travel to guild hall, and accessing storage from pre-searing). I started playing guild wars after the exploit was found and fixed. My aquisition of these items was done through in game commerce with these people and I have a strong understanding of the situation.

The underlying soloution is to add expert salvage kits to the merchant's inventory for sale in pre-searing.

Here is my interaction with Customer Support of the issue. Read from the bottom up, to keep the flow of responses linear. Names removed:

Updated Response

Quote:

Originally Posted by New response from Customer Support, transfer of Ticket to the CR Manager

Response (***********) 06/21/2007 09:16 AM
Hello,

Thank you for contacting the Guild Wars Support Team. In order to better assist you with this issue, we will transfer this question to our Community Relations Manager. She will be able to answer your question or provide you additional information. Please allow a few extra days for her reply. Please contact us again if you need any further assistance.

Regards,

The Guild Wars Support Team
Customer (**********) 06/20/2007 04:03 PM
This has generated alot of interest on the forums.

There are currently thousands of views on each thread (after little more than a day). I am requesting one extra measure, that would go a long way in helping to find some resolution to the situation.

Will you please submit this Support Ticket to the Guild Wars Community relations department?

Due to the interest, from following support's instruction to take this to the public forms, it's clear that some sort of offical response is needed to let us know that it's been heard by those that can address the matter more directly.

I'm requesting that this is submitted to Gaile Grey or Andrew Patrick, so they are aware that some input is needed from them.

I know this is an unusual request through these channels, but I believe this is an unusual concern.

Again, thanks so much for taking the time out of your busy schedule. Please know that I appreciate your efforts in addressing these concerns as a support staff member.

-***********
Customer (**********) 06/19/2007 08:42 PM
Please keep this support ticket open.

I have taken the suggestion to post on the community guild wars fan sites. I have posted the concerns on two of the larger sites:

GuildWars Guru:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10169760

GuildWars INC GAMERS:

http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forum...d.php?t=455200

Please forward this to the relevent developers and community reps. The discussions show both concern and support for these issues.

Thank you so much for your time.

-***********

Quote:

Originally Posted by Customer Support Ticket

Quote:

Originally Posted by Currently the last response from Support

Response (********) 06/19/2007 11:33 AM
Hello,

Thank you for contacting Guild Wars Support about this.

We have forwarded your suggestions to the developtment team but we encourage you to consider posting your suggestions on one of the many Guild Wars Fansite message boards. A compiled list can be found on the official Guild Wars web site at http://www.guildwars.com/community/fansites/. By posting on one of these message boards, other players can comment on your ideas, concerns, and suggestions, and Development Team members are able to catch up on what the community wants to see in Guild Wars. Fansite forums make it easy and efficient for us to learn from those playing the game.

Thank you for your efforts in assisting us to make Guild Wars the best gaming experience possible.

Regards,
The Guild Wars Support Team

Quote:

Originally Posted by My last request to address the issue

Customer (*******) 06/18/2007 07:47 PM
Thank you for taking the time to personally respond to ticket. I know it saves time to use the standard reply. I also understand that your work load at Customer Service must make replying to each ticket difficult, and time consuming.

Is there anything you can tell me about the suggestion to add expert salvage kits to the pre-searing merchant (a measure that will correct the problem)? Will this suggestion be forwarded to the correct people? This is the chief support question I'm interested in addressing.

The website was just reference to demonstrate the out of balance condition that I'm reporting (not the website itself, I'm sure they are doing nothing wrong). I just may have not been clear enough on the prime purpose of this support issue.

Thanks again, I appreciate the time you've spent addressing my concerns.

-*********

Quote:

Originally Posted by Third response, half read my request and missed the point (again)

Response (GM ********) 06/18/2007 04:46 PM
Hello,

Thanks for getting in touch with the Guild Wars Support Team regarding the website you mentioned.

We will use the information you have provided to investigate whether a violation of the rules has occurred. All information related to the outcome of that investigation will be discussed only between the responsible website personnel and Customer Support. If it is found that the website has operated in an inappropriate manner, our privacy policies nearly always prevent us from divulging decisions or actions that we have taken. Therefore, you most likely will not hear back from us. But please be aware that we take all such reports very seriously, and pledge that we will do our utmost to research and resolve any issues.

We appreciate your support of Guild Wars and your interest in keeping the game world and the websites associated with the game pleasant for all players.

Regards,

The Guild Wars Support Team

Quote:

Originally Posted by My response, and request to address the questions

Customer (***********) 06/18/2007 03:34 PM
Do not set this to "closed".

There has been no response other than what amounts to the standard "auto" response given when a person is reported for misconduct, or general infraction (this is NOT the case). I require an actual response to my report.

I would like to escalate the problem to the next tier of support.

I will be discussing the response on the GuildWars Guru. Please address the issue directly. Please respond with something other than the standard pre-made response.

Thanks.

-*********

Quote:

Originally Posted by Second Auto response, didn't even read the ticket, and closed the support ticket

Response (GM ******) 06/18/2007 12:42 PM
Hello,

Thank you again for reporting this incident to the Guild Wars Support Team.

We have reviewed the game logs of this incident and taken the appropriate action based on the information from the logs. As previously indicated, due to our Privacy Policy (http://www.guildwars.com/support/leg...acy-policy.php) we will not be able to provide any additional information regarding this report. That is to say, we cannot reveal what action, if any, was taken, nor if the actual violation was confirmed. Also, we are unable to reimburse you for any items or gold that may have been lost as the result of a transaction with another player. However, please be assured that the Guild Wars team takes User Agreement and Rules of Conduct violations very seriously. We are dedicated to maintaining an enjoyable playing environment. Because the incident that you report has been handled by the Guild Wars team, we are now setting this incident to a "Closed" status.

Thanks again for submitting your report.

Regards,

The Guild Wars Support Team

Quote:

Originally Posted by first auto response

Response (GM ******) 06/17/2007 11:32 PM
Hello,

Thanks for contacting the Guild Wars Support Team. In order to better assist you with this issue, we will transfer your ticket to our Game Support Department. A member of that department will be in contact with you shortly. If you have any further questions, please let us know and we will gladly assist you.

Regards,
The Guild Wars Support Team

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1st support request

Hello,

I have, perhaps a more unusual condition to report. I also have some questions.

You may be aware of, there is a thriving underground economy in the Pre-searing area of Prophecies, Guild Wars. This "Black Market" is made up of individuals that took advantage of an exploit some time ago that allowed travel to guild halls from Pre-searing.

This gave these people access to max weapons, expert salvage kits, and items that were just not availble to the average player.

With the Legendary Protector of Ascalon title introduced into the game, there is quite a number of people left out from this advantage (who are now interested in playing in pre-searing). Those that wish to aquire these "post-searing" items must pay incredible prices. Here is a link to a website that specializes in the elitist market:

http://presearing.com/

(You will have to register to see the pre-searing auction section)

There you will find people extorting insane amounts of in game gold for items that should be available to the average player. Some of the examples are, 75K per use from an expert salvage kit, 10s of thousands for salavage runes, insignias, mods, etc. There is even a superior salvage kit selling for over 2 million!

Now I know it is not reasonable to try and correct the situation, by removing these items from the game. What I would like to see is a very simple solution. If an expert salvage kit were to be introduced to the pre-searing merchants, it would level the playing field.

The "average" player could make use of the minor runes, insignias, weapon mods, etc. that they find in the North Lands (where the charr are).

I have an example, with screenshots of one of these people (*******) trying to offer me max gold items from post-sear. He wanted a mini Kunnvang dragon from my CE Factions, that I have in pre-searing. Please see the attached files.

In closing, I would like to discuss the responses from Support on this issue in the public Guild Wars fan forums, specifically Guildwars Guru.

Thank you so much for your time.

Phew that's a lot of info to go through, please read through it before commenting.

With some persistence, I've managed (at least I hope I did) to get through the auto-responses they issue to support requests. However, it all boils down to them deferring the question to the fan forums (Guild Wars Guru, etc.).

Basically, I'm requesting some feedback from the community, as this subject is ultimately being placed in your lap, and I'd like to point back to the support ticket with a link to this discussion.

My stance, is that expert salvage kits should be added to the pre-searing merchants. It will fix the exploited black market condition, and provide the average player (who paid the same amount of money as the next player) equal access to game content.

^
Above point in bold for those that don't wish to read the full content.

Retribution X · Jun 19, 2007, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Hell yeah! Add those suckers in there!

So, what I gathered from the ticket was, "see if anyone else agrees." kinda sorta thing.

Really, that's extortion.

drakun01 · Jun 19, 2007, 08:52 PM // 20:52

I've never been a big fan of Pre, truth be told. It's just...boring. but lol at your convo with the devs. You just made my day =P

Chestnut · Jun 19, 2007, 08:55 PM // 20:55

I like it, 25 months of playing and I agree this "Pre black market" has bugged me for awhile.

---/SIGN

Firebaall · Jun 19, 2007, 09:02 PM // 21:02

Pre-searing is recognized as a legitimate playing area.

-Charr Bags added
-LDoA title added
-death leveling brought back, so everybody can get the title

Why not make the access to items equal? Why reward those that cheated the game? I don't think I'm out of line suggesting this.

Tide to Go · Jun 19, 2007, 09:06 PM // 21:06

say hellow to pre searing runes! im in...

fRag_Doll · Jun 19, 2007, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Sounds reasonable to me. /Signed.

Firebaall · Jun 19, 2007, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Not just runes, but insignias are out there after the update.

Levi Garett · Jun 19, 2007, 09:38 PM // 21:38

People abused the Guild Hall travel feature and some nice stuff ended up in pre-searing. Owell Anet is not going to do anything about it.

You want fairness? They did nothing about the first crash of ecto prices when stacks upon stacks were bought for just a few hundred gold each....and there was NO ROLLBACK to correct the problem. Instant GW Millionares that did NOTHING but abuse a bug. They learned their lesson though and actually rollback'd the 2nd ecto price crash (thank god). I remember everybody complaining they didn't get to abuse the bug...

I doubt you will ever see those salvage kits in pre. The "black market" issue will never be resolved either. I wish you the best of luck in your quest to make things fair for everybody. IMHO you have better odds of the players merching those black market items than ANET lifting a finger to help you. I guess I should give them the benefit of the doubt since they have surprised me in the past, but considering the bonehead changes over the past few months I doubt they will do anything.

Firebaall · Jun 19, 2007, 09:51 PM // 21:51

True points Levi,

But as you said...they did roll back the second crash. They did do something, it might not have corrected the first instance but it shows concern and action on their behalf.

Now if they don't do anything with this, it won't be from me not doing my part.

Support has asked to post this issue in the public fan forums, so I'm giving my effort, I won't have it not addressed because of my failure to respond.

L|S >+>+G+<+< · Jun 19, 2007, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Fireball I think you did a great job & have much patience with the supoort team & their auto replies.

I think you have a very valid point & I sign up to it without hesitation.

The exploiters will still have their max dam weapons etc so they wont loseout much but the players without these would benifit greatly from having an extra run or 2 available to them at a reasonable price from the merchant savlge kit.

After all.....why have runes drop if you cant salvage them in pre?
If you want a rune when u go post you can just go buy one.

/signed
/signed
/signed
/signed
/signed

anet please sort this out

Levi Garett · Jun 19, 2007, 09:54 PM // 21:54

Good luck Fireball and don't let my negativity detract from your quest to make things right. I'm not salty at all, I swear!

Firebaall · Jun 19, 2007, 10:00 PM // 22:00

lol...

I have this thread going on GuruOnline (where I think alot of perm-pre folks are). It's interesting to see the differences in attitudes. It's very transparent when some posters are so dismissive of the idea (i.e. I'd love to see their inventory bags in pre).

XvArchonvX · Jun 19, 2007, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Looks like a reasonable request to me.

/signed

Tide to Go · Jun 19, 2007, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Quote:

The exploiters will still have their max dam weapons etc so they wont loseout much but the players without these would benifit greatly from having an extra run or 2 available to them at a reasonable price from the merchant savlge kit

wait.....i have a max weapon in pre.....anet gave it to me...all you have to do is go to the online store.

sry if i read this the wrong way

Melei Hawke · Jun 19, 2007, 10:14 PM // 22:14

I think you did an excellent job presenting your case and keeping it focused.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tide to Go

wait.....i have a max weapon in pre.....anet gave it to me...all you have to do is go to the online store.

[/FONT]

Yes, bonus items are available in pre...

A level playing field would be nice

/signed

Pwny Ride · Jun 19, 2007, 10:58 PM // 22:58

signed/

i also laughed out loud at the auto e-mail replies.

marshy man · Jun 19, 2007, 11:00 PM // 23:00

here here!

/signed

might i also suggest that you post at www.guildwars.gameamp?

DreamCatcher · Jun 19, 2007, 11:01 PM // 23:01

/signed!

GREAT job there Firebaal! Well done

Levi, there are other items in pre that aren't naturally dropped, including superior runes, max weapons like stormbows and greens and also...expanded bags. Those bags instantly became almost valueless when charr bags were brought to pre and the charr bag alone is imo 1 of the best things that ever happened to GW

Hey and Firebaall, when the gh glitch happenes this actually caused me to quit playing gw altogether for a few months up untill factions came along. I missed out on the glitch and frankly (even though I was in the position to obtain some of such glitched items) this is not the way I'd want to play any game. For me part of the game is the challenge itself. Suppose there was this new glitch that I could use to instantly max out all my titles but wheres the fun in that? :P

I think adding expert salvage kits to pre (in whatever form) would be a great idea! The only ones who wouldn't like it would obviously be someone who'd hate to see salvages go for less then 100 plat each.

Evilsod · Jun 19, 2007, 11:01 PM // 23:01

Tbh the only way this will ever be resolved is when all those players move on to GW2. Seems to me that Anet don't really care about pre-searing anymore. They gave it 1 retarded title that glorifies death leveling and ignored it for a bit. Then returned to give it Charr Bags to help people out who undergo the death leveling title. I'd be surprised if they can even remember it exists...