Curse

amish lifeguard · Jun 20, 2007, 07:24 PM // 19:24

ebay. plain and simple.

Masseur · Jun 20, 2007, 07:39 PM // 19:39

/signed - again, why have something like runes and such drop if you can't Salvage them to use now? It's like, here's your present, but you can't open it unless you move to (some other country) and never return again.

Thom The Brawler · Jun 20, 2007, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by amish lifeguard

ebay. plain and simple.

O.o ?

Either your telling ppl to buy salvage kits off ebay or money to buy salvages, in either case I beleave thats a banning offence from most forums and the game. You mind explaining this? Plane and simple like?

Firebaall · Jun 20, 2007, 08:05 PM // 20:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oofus

By the way, that is an extreamly ignorant and quite frankly wrong statement. As I said I have none of those items in pre, and I can guarantee you I have at least just as much "knowledge of" and "interest" in "what's going on in the pre-searing world". Try to refrain from such comments when you clearly have no idea what other people think or why they think it.

Thanks for your opinion.

You may be the exception to those that object, that have direct concern and connection to pre-searing. Read back on this thread, and on it's sister thread on the other fan forum. You'll see reasons for the basis of my comments (especially on the GW incgamers thread).

Now, please keep the thread polite and productive. Give us some insight! Why, as a pre-searing-playing customer do you not think this is a good idea? A good disscussion needs both sides of the argument.

Thanks again.

amish lifeguard · Jun 20, 2007, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Thom, read the other posts. People can afford to buy these items because they buy gold from ebay.

The way you interpreted it is completely moronic.

TedTheDead · Jun 20, 2007, 08:56 PM // 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burning Blade

/signed

BTW, average people earn hundred of plats or even a million in Pre-Searing to buy such things? how? Killing monsters that drop 2-5g again and again?

I "believe" that the people who do it are actually paying with their post money to other post characters for the goods and services obtained by their pre characters from other pre characters.

Dougal Kronik · Jun 20, 2007, 09:04 PM // 21:04

/signed

If it makes it fun again in pre without the unbalanced aspect from those that took advantage of a bug.

L|S >+>+G+<+< · Jun 20, 2007, 09:15 PM // 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oofus

I have a perma-pre character who, by the way, has NO runes or any other post items. That having been said, I think A-Net should leave well enough alone. If you want expert salvage kits introduced to pre because a few people have runes, then why stop there? There are plenty of gold items in pre also as well as greens, so should they add gold drops and green weapons as well? Based on the logic of the OP, where does it end? I understand your displeasure with those who exploited the old guild hall glitch but whats done is done, it gives no advantage to those who have them other then vanity, if you need a rune or max weapon to get around in pre then you realy should just move on to post searing. Adding expert kits, gold and green weapons to pre would serve no purpose other then to make pre just like post except smaller. If you want runes and golds and elite skills, etc, etc, then go to post, problem solved.

By the way, that is an extreamly ignorant and quite frankly wrong statement. As I said I have none of those items in pre, and I can guarantee you I have at least just as much "knowledge of" and "interest" in "what's going on in the pre-searing world". Try to refrain from such comments when you clearly have no idea what other people think or why they think it.
.

I think that is a little off imo. No one has said to add golds or greens, you did that yourself.

We only want expert salvage kits to make us able to salvage the already dropped runes you get from the charr.

This will not ruin the game, it will only help those who like pre have the runes they often get salvaged for the cost of a kit instead of the exhorbourant amount of money the black marketeers charge.

no one needs golds or greens dropped & oh btw for the record, they charr drop a green charr bag.

But I'm sure you don't need this now do you as you don't like the idea of greens dropping in pre >.>

anshin · Jun 20, 2007, 09:26 PM // 21:26

i also sign... i like pre and i felt frustrated when i used a normal salvage kit trying to salvage a minor rune

Oofus · Jun 20, 2007, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by L|S >+>+G+<+<

I think that is a little off imo. No one has said to add golds or greens, you did that yourself.

That's correct, I did say that myself, if you actually read my post and understand it you will see that the point is why stop there becasue if you add runes someone will soon complain that since there are golds in pre then A-Net should introduce gold drops in pre.

Quote:

Originally Posted by L|S >+>+G+<+<

no one needs golds or greens dropped & oh btw for the record, they charr drop a green charr bag.

But I'm sure you don't need this now do you as you don't like the idea of greens dropping in pre >.>

Again, try reading AND understanding my post. I said green WEAPONS, I am well aware of Charr bags, incase you didn't know Charr bags are not weapons. And you are correct, nobody needs gold and green weapons, just as nobody needs runes, thanks for supporting my point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firebaall

Now, please keep the thread polite and productive. Give us some insight! Why, as a pre-searing-playing customer do you not think this is a good idea? A good disscussion needs both sides of the argument.

I did, if you read the rest of my post, the part you did not quote, you will see why I think what I think. Simply put, if it aint broke don't fix it, and just because a few runes exist in pre hardly counts as pre being broke. There is no imbalance.....it PvE. You have every right to want things your way, but in my oppinion, if you want runes move on to post and you can have all the runes you like.

Spidey · Jun 20, 2007, 10:03 PM // 22:03

/signed

An expert salvage kit in Pre will only make it a bit more fun to play/stay in pre. And if that gets someone to buy another character slot or the GotY upgrade then that's more $$ for ANet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by amish lifeguard

Thom, read the other posts. People can afford to buy these items because they buy gold from ebay.

The way you interpreted it is completely moronic.

If you had used the word wrong instead of moronic it would have left an impression that the poster made a mistake. Instead you used a word that turns your statement into an attack on the poster and that wasn't very nice.

There are a couple of ways to get gold in Pre (a few legitimate)
1) Farm dye. I haven't spent much time there since the loot scaling but it previously was a great place to farm dye.
2) Farm the Charr for weapons and Charr bags
3) Buy "unwanted" dye for 50g (I seriously don't like these kind of scams).

Thom The Brawler · Jun 20, 2007, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by amish lifeguard

Thom, read the other posts. People can afford to buy these items because they buy gold from ebay.

The way you interpreted it is completely moronic.

I have read every single post on all 4 threads on this subject, I'm sorry you coment seemed out of place to me, because I read the other post then read posts in other threads and came back here, if you had quoted the post you were answering, there would have been no misunderstanding lol.

amish lifeguard · Jun 20, 2007, 10:43 PM // 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dougal Kronik

If it makes it fun again in pre without the unbalanced aspect from those that took advantage of a bug.

How do others having these items make Pre searing unbalanced or not fun? If nobody told you about them, you wouldn't even know. That is how subtle it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spidey

If you had used the word wrong instead of moronic it would have left an impression that the poster made a mistake. Instead you used a word that turns your statement into an attack on the poster and that wasn't very nice.

I apologize. In my eyes, my statement was blatantly obvious and could not be interpreted in any other way.

EDIT: Ok Thom, my bad.

MrSlayer · Jun 20, 2007, 10:45 PM // 22:45

I must agree this seems like a fair suggestion. Since so many people death level for this title, more and more runes are being found from the Charr, and it seems completely stupid that they are all wasted.

I don't see the danger in adding the expert salvage kits to pre-searing anyway. I am not even sure why they aren't there. You can't salvage weapon mods from pre-searing weapons, same as anywhere else. There are no extra items you could salvage for mods not available later in the game, and I'm pretty certain there aren't any special runes you could sneakily attain either.

I would guess the only issue is Rare Materials. The pre-searing has no use for them, and no way to make Money off them. The idea of pre-searing was, originally, to provide a gentle introduction to the game for the newbies. Since people now play it fulltime, perhaps changes should be made.

So perhaps an Expert Salvage Kit isn't what's needed. Perhaps instead, there should be a new kind of Salvage Kit introduced that deals purely with Runes and Basic Materials (it could just be an extension of what already exists in pre-searing).

Other than that, /signed. A good suggestion.

A nice battle with the ANet Bots

.

Firebaall · Jun 20, 2007, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oofus

I have a perma-pre character who, by the way, has NO runes or any other post items. That having been said, I think A-Net should leave well enough alone. If you want expert salvage kits introduced to pre because a few people have runes, then why stop there? There are plenty of gold items in pre also as well as greens, so should they add gold drops and green weapons as well? Based on the logic of the OP, where does it end? I understand your displeasure with those who exploited the old guild hall glitch but whats done is done, it gives no advantage to those who have them other then vanity, if you need a rune or max weapon to get around in pre then you realy should just move on to post searing. Adding expert kits, gold and green weapons to pre would serve no purpose other then to make pre just like post except smaller. If you want runes and golds and elite skills, etc, etc, then go to post, problem solved.

Since you've addressed me again, I'll respond in kind. Please read and consider what I say in response to the other half of your comments.

You say that you have a pre-searing character with no items that can only be obtained from post-sear or the expert salvage kits. Hey that's great! You're one of many.

You say that you want Anet to leave well enough alone. Ok...that's your opinion, but you don't exactly say what "well enough" is.

You say that I want expert salvages added because others have a few runes. It's more than a "few", and it's more than just runes.

Why stop there, you ask? These same people have gold/green weapons why not ask Anet to make those drop? Not the same issue. Yes, they were glitched in, but they are not being used to the same effect. Those items are tied to one user, and are likely customized. An expert salvage kit that they glitched in can be abused for a very long time, against a lot of different people. A year and a half has past, and it's still being used as a high profit engine for these people.

Based on the logic of the OP, where does it end? When an addition of an expert salvage levels the playing field. The only people affected are the cheaters, and exploiters.

No other advantage to the people that have the glitched in kits? I'm sorry, but you haven't read much of this thread. There is MASSIVE profit being made here. Not to mention these people have access to game content that the average player does not.

I could address more of your post directly, but I don't think it's needed.

Let me ask you this. Do you think that any person or persons should have access to the game's content that others do not? Are you interested in a fairness that extends to everybody? The simple solution is clarion. Having access to an expert salvage kit in pre-searing cleans up the black market in one stroke. It gives this "tutorial" part of the game an additional learning tool (if that's your angle/argument).

There is nothing but positive outcome in this option (unless you are a blackmarket "have").

Personette · Jun 20, 2007, 11:24 PM // 23:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oofus

That's correct, I did say that myself, if you actually read my post and understand it you will see that the point is why stop there becasue if you add runes someone will soon complain that since there are golds in pre then A-Net should introduce gold drops in pre.

Slippery slope again. This is not a valid argument. If you want to prove that a certain innocent, non-objectionable change is a bad idea, because it will lead to some other unwanted, objectionable change, you need to show how one will lead to the other.

It is not enough to state that a good idea, when taken to extremes, becomes a bad idea - that is almost always the case, where ideas are concerned.

And, as this very thread with its quotations of ArenaNet's standard reply to problems and requests shows, most of the time when someone complains Anet humors and ignores them. So saying that someone would complain isn't enough to prove that one thing (expert salvage kits) will lead to another (gold weapons in pre)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oofus

Again, try reading AND understanding my post. I said green WEAPONS, I am well aware of Charr bags, incase you didn't know Charr bags are not weapons. And you are correct, nobody needs gold and green weapons, just as nobody needs runes, thanks for supporting my point.

Same deal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oofus

Simply put, if it aint broke don't fix it, and just because a few runes exist in pre hardly counts as pre being broke. There is no imbalance.....it PvE.

Why doesn't it count as being broke? There is no imbalance in PvE, therefore any examples of it don't exist?

Bruce Leeroy · Jun 21, 2007, 12:03 AM // 00:03

http://www.guildwars.com/support/leg...sofconduct.php
19. You will not exploit any bug in Guild Wars and you will not communicate the existence of any such exploitable bug (bugs that grant the user unnatural or unintended benefits) either directly or through public posting, to any other user of Guild Wars. Bugs should be promptly reported via "Ask a Question" at http://support.guildwars.com.

So either the existing expert/superior salvage kits etc. need to be removed or ban the exploiters as per the GW rules of conduct. I doubt either will happen.

The better solution would be to add the expert salvage kits and lets all move on happily.

Oofus · Jun 21, 2007, 12:10 AM // 00:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Personette

Slippery slope again. This is not a valid argument. If you want to prove that a certain innocent, non-objectionable change is a bad idea, because it will lead to some other unwanted, objectionable change, you need to show how one will lead to the other. .....So saying that someone would complain isn't enough to prove that one thing (expert salvage kits) will lead to another (gold weapons in pre)

The OP's contention is that since an item was brought into pre due to an unintended glitch, then that item should be integrated into the game legitimately. So it stands to reason that ANY item that was brought in to pre through that same method should receive the same treatment.

Item X was brought to pre through method A, therefore object X should be made a drop in pre.
Therefore if Item Y was brought to pre through method A, object Y should also be made a drop in pre.

I fail to see why you fail to see the logistics of that concept.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Personette

There is no imbalance in PvE, therefore any examples of it don't exist?

Absolutely correct. If something does not exist then there certainly can be no examples of said thing.

Roo Ella · Jun 21, 2007, 12:22 AM // 00:22

I already signed this in a previous post on this thread but the kits should not be from the merchants thats too easy
but from a drop say from an extra higher lvl boss I dunno lvl 10 or 15 surrounded by the bosses we now have
or just from the bosses now and no extra boss would even work.
Would give that added challenge to getting a kit AND learning about the diff between standard kits and expert kits
and there use
before they go post.

But I could be wrong on this idea.

Personette · Jun 21, 2007, 12:40 AM // 00:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oofus

The OP's contention is that since an item was brought into pre due to an unintended glitch, then that item should be integrated into the game legitimately. So it stands to reason that ANY item that was brought in to pre through that same method should receive the same treatment.

Item X was brought to pre through method A, therefore object X should be made a drop in pre.
Therefore if Item Y was brought to pre through method A, object Y should also be made a drop in pre.

I fail to see why you fail to see the logistics of that concept.

I repeat, slippery slope. You're still saying, "We can't do x, because it will lead to y."

Now you've added: X will lead to Y because the same logic could be used to justify both decisions. Now we know why they are both on the same slope. What we do not know is why the slippage will occur. And that's what you need to prove.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oofus

Absolutely correct. If something does not exist then there certainly can be no examples of said thing.

Um. Apparently you didn't notice the humor there, but as long as we're being serious about it...

1. The burden of proof rests on the positive assertion. You cannot prove the non-existence of something.

2. The conclusion cannot precede the hypothesis.