Curse

arcanemacabre · Aug 07, 2007, 04:38 AM // 04:38

The fact that inscribable items cannot reproduce many odd combinations is not a fault of the inscription system - it is a fault of the coders not allowing the inscription system to reproduce such results. I all but guarantee that will be resolved in time, when they get around to it.

Otherwise, the inscription system is far superior to random, locked-in stats any day of the week on any planes of existence. Even with certain combos being unattainable currently.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

An inscription system would ruin the beauty of these weapons.

I didn't realize inscriptions altered the requirement and skin of weapons, nor the effort put in to acquire said weapons. Then again, what do I know?

lyra_song · Aug 07, 2007, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by boko

In other words, you change your coat as it suits you. You vouch for the that accomplishment is respected and not diminised, yet on another side, you vouch for the hard work of others to be diminished just because YOU want to get some weird combo of item, or skins.

Well firstly. I do not have to agree with an issue to argue FOR or AGAINST it.

My motivation for advocating the change is not to diminish player accomplishment, but to give existing players better choices.

If Anet had to choose between giving the majority of players useable items, or keeping the status quo for a small percentage of rich players, well...we'll see which they choose.

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Oo... It is completely related. Inscription came with NF, and Anet decided NOT to implement them in other chapters. They added it for Zodiac only. Yet they did it for all armors irrespective of chapters. They have their reasons. So,please respect them. Anet caters to everyone, not just YOU. Guess what there are other people playing the game apart from you. It's NOT up to the players to decide that they need to drive away hard core collectors in pve. Who are you to decide who is to be chased out?

So I am chasing out players now for telling my opinions?

My opinion is as follows: Its going to be changed. Its inevitable.

Just as armors became insignia-ble, weapons will become inscribable in Tyria/Cantha.

Its Anet's choice, and i believe they will do exactly that.

Agree or disagree with me all you want. But that wont change the fact that if or when it gets change, it wont be because of ME.

ShadowsRequiem · Aug 07, 2007, 05:28 AM // 05:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Meh, my bad, I've only completed the elite missions a couple times each. The point still stands that inscribable weapons don't drop for 99% of Cantha. I ignored HoH because again, not Cantha or Tyria. I'm not annoyed because of some specific skin that I think I'm entitled to, I'm annoyed because the drops I get in Cantha and Tyria are mostly useless.

I call shenanigans.

Combos not available in PvP... Combos that could be considered "better". Max items with a req below 9. How on earth do you think this helps your arguement?

shenanigans? I call ignorance.

Combos NOT Availible. read it. These combos CANNOT be replicated through pvp or NF INSCRIPTIONS. Sometimes overall armor is better then a +30. This helps my point because i'm saying Oofus has a good point.
Example :
You cannot make a req divine staff with a 20% healing prayers HCT on it with the new system.

Yawgmoth · Aug 07, 2007, 05:38 AM // 05:38

Armors were a completely different case, their change didn't hurt anyone at all, but had lots of positive effects.
Here we got a case of rarity, vanity and collecting cool stuff. The masses already got Nightfall, where they can easily get loads of cheap streamlined "rares" ready to be made perfect. There are however quite a bunch of players who like hunting for, finding and collecting cool stuff which is actually rare, as opposite to those piles of mods slapped on a skin we got in NF.

PyrAnkh · Aug 07, 2007, 06:17 AM // 06:17

Well...i got this very very nice r8 crystalline...with 20% whilst hexed. Please, make it inscriptable xD

Dr Strangelove · Aug 07, 2007, 06:34 AM // 06:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowsRequiem

shenanigans? I call ignorance.

Combos NOT Availible. read it. These combos CANNOT be replicated through pvp or NF INSCRIPTIONS. Sometimes overall armor is better then a +30. This helps my point because i'm saying Oofus has a good point.
Example :
You cannot make a req divine staff with a 20% healing prayers HCT on it with the new system.

It's bulls*** because of the insane rarity of such items. Anyone who's actually played the game knows that the items you two mention don't drop with any sort of frequency. In 2000 hours of play, I've gotten only one usable, noninscribable caster weapon from a drop. Your wonderful random system seems to prefer to produce healing prayers foci with 18% HCT water magic and +10 armor vs. charr.

Anyway, I'd probably avoid mentioning that items found in prophecies can be better than those available to PvP characters if I were you.

maraxusofk · Aug 07, 2007, 07:09 AM // 07:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

GWeapons like Elemental swords or Fiery/Icy Blade axes are rare, and hard to find, and expensive, yet they may come inscribed.

It would just make a max-req9, 15%^50 the same as a max-req9, 14%^50.
But the important thing would stay the same, and the price should depend on that only:
- Skin
- Base damage
- Requirement.
- Having inscription slot.
Inscriptions can't affect that.

It's not that perfect crystallines would start dropping from Level 2 Resurrect gargoyles or level 0 Mantid Monitors, and a req 7 would always e more expensive than a req 11! For Grenth's sake!

LOL Since when was icy blade ax rare? since when was 80k considered expensive? let me ask u if u wanna debate value, wut sells for more, a req 11 tyrian 15>%0 or inscirptable 15>50 crystalline?

there are lots of ppl out there who PRIZE their req 7 non-15>50 because req 7u is rare and is hard ot acquire. now think of how much harder it is to pull a tyrian req 7 15>50. are u really going to dminish their effort by ignoring it and putting inscreiptions? i can tell u that gw makes money off the ppl who are hardcore and buys EVERY signle thing they release. the casual gamers dont. if anet wants to make money, they wouldnt ignore the hardcore.

boko · Aug 07, 2007, 08:40 AM // 08:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Well firstly. I do not have to agree with an issue to argue FOR or AGAINST it.

Yes. We can see that. You turn your coat whenever that pleases you. Talk about being hypocrite. The fact that you post in favour means that you agree to an issue. Tell me when did you try to be neutral in this whole matter?

Your view is narrowed by what you want instead of considering the effect of such a change.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

My motivation for advocating the change is not to diminish player accomplishment, but to give existing players better choices.

So because your motivation is to give existing players a better choices, that means that you can just ignore the hard work of others? Just because you want to see only part of equation, does not make the other part of the equation dissapear. Your view on the subject as I said, is narrow-minded. You fail to see the whole consequences of the suggestion. You are motivated by what YOU want. Even at the cost of something that you yourself were defending in another thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

So I am chasing out players now for telling my opinions?.

Yes. You are. By posting in favour of a thread with the very explicit title of : "How to drive away the hard core collectors in PvE" , you are taking a stance in the movement. In other words, yes, you are contributing in trying to chase out players. You did not realise that? Please tell me you dun;t vote in your country.

If you did try to take a neutral stance, then it would have been otherwise, but you clearly DID take a side.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Its Anet's choice, and i believe they will do exactly that.

Yes. Irrespective of what you or I think, It's Anet's Choice. Then, nobody won't mind if that thread is closed already? Or are people only interested in trying to cry and cry to try and pressure Anet into doing what they want?

masteroflife · Aug 07, 2007, 08:51 AM // 08:51

I complete agree with maraxusofk 's post.

Another thing I always wondered, Why do people always relate getting gold to farming? farming is possibly the worst way to accumulate gold. There are much more efficient ways.

PvE characters have advantages over pvp characters in pvp. Because there are items that simply cannot be replicated in pvp. Like 20% half cast on a wand with +5e^50%. Blunt damage on a sword, Piercing axe, Slashing dagger, Piercing hammer. These might be considered minor to some people, but when every health/damage count, these can by pass the +10ar that smart people will use against you.

Longasc · Aug 07, 2007, 10:01 AM // 10:01

I consider myself a fairly wealthy GW player and collector.

I have r8 weapons and r8 2/-2 whatever shields that still cost a fortune, and I do not see any reason why many cool skins need to stay ultra rare because they drop by default without inscription slots.

I paid quite a lot for some weapons, but I see no reason why this is a good reason to demand they stay ultra rare...

To put it bluntly, there is no reason to reject this system, an unified system for all chapters would be by far better than loot in Prophecies and Factions being retarded by default. This system does only good, the only "bad" about it that I can see is that some snobbish collectors with a questionable attitude cannot stand it. Just because their precious few items that 99,99% of the GW population will never ever see or hear of are now much easier to obtain and cost much less.

This is not a problem of inscriptions, this is your personal problem. Many Tyrian weapons already drop in Elona with inscription slots, and I see no point in not extending this system to all chapters because some persons paid a virtual fortune for some pixels and now do not want others to get them cheaper.

TabascoSauce · Aug 07, 2007, 11:09 AM // 11:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

This is not a problem of inscriptions, this is your personal problem. Many Tyrian weapons already drop in Elona with inscription slots, and I see no point in not extending this system to all chapters because some persons paid a virtual fortune for some pixels and now do not want others to get them cheaper.

QFT. These are the same people who are always saying "suck it up - change happens - adapt" in other threads, but now they are crying and whining about how their "precious" gear will become......common?

Waaaah.

Hey - if the inscription system gets implemented universally - change happens, suck it up, adapt.

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

4thVariety · Aug 07, 2007, 11:19 AM // 11:19

It is not as if we will get our old weapons turned into inscribable ones. The drops will simply change to the new type. That means inscribable weapons and no req.8 max dmg stuff anywhere.

MithranArkanere · Aug 07, 2007, 04:58 PM // 16:58

The best example are Elemental swords and Long Swords. An average longsword req9 with inscription slot costs around 1k and 5k. But what is the average price for max-req9 inscribed elementals? 200..400k? And still they are inscribed.
Inscriptions just remove the difference between a max.req9 15%^50 and a max.req9 14%^50. And who cares about that? Only those who think about their weapons as cash. It's not to show off. When you ping your weapon only the names appear, not the values.
But how easy is to get a long sword with the same full upgrades and modifier in Tyria or Cantha? It may be even harder to get than a Elemental.
Why a core skin should be more rare than a rare skin? Eh... because someone want to save cash as items? Eh... nonsense... If you keep a weapon it's because you like it, because you want to use it. And weapons have more versatility, that is, are more 'usable' if they have inscriptions.

Being inscribed or not it's not the problem. Rarity of skins can be set manually. Too much colossal scimitars drop? They could reduce the drop if they wanted to.
With the addition of GW:EN, PvP, GW:EN and Nightfall would have inscriptions... and now final chests in Urgoz and the Deep drop inscribable rares too. So Cantha is starting to become inscribed too. And HoH chests drop inscribed too
So imagine a guy that bught Nightfall, then GW:EN... and he wants more... (anyone would, yeah) and then buy Prophecies... imagine his disappointment when common blue drops change from 1 out of 200 drops being 'usable' (i.e.: req 8..11 and max stats) to 1 out of 1000, due to having fixed modifiers instead of allowing upgrades. And 1 out of 10000 for shields and foci!

And remember that not all dropped items are inscribed, even in Nightfall. Only those that drop with the 'modifier' property are. Items that do not bring that property, do not come with an Inscription free slot, inscriptions do not drop as 'empty'. And blacksmiths can't add inscription slots! So it would not be as easy as "getting a drop with such skin and done, it's perfect". Far from it.

It's logical that fixed properties are dependant of the weapon (base damage, damage type, req, recharge in staves...) Since they are always the same, just change their values.
But the unreplaceable 'modifier' Tyrian and Canthan wepons may have, it's variable, like the upgrades. Increasing the possible combinations, you get that getting an 'usable' common drop is harder than getting an unique!

Just some weeks before Nightfall, I have this very conversation with some allies. He claimed that 'modifier' upgrades would never happen, and if that would happen, he would 'leave the game' and I defended that such a change should and would happen (not knowing anything about inscriptions). They added such upgrades, for my surpise and their rage, but no one left. He whined a bit, but... for the changes in AI... After some time... inscription has proved useful and AI was fixed again for good.

Inscriptions allow average players to wear a couple more of thing other that green, collector or smith gear, without having to farm too much and just playing the quests and missions, just enjoying the game in their spare time. And that's good! There are still rare skins, even with inscriptions, and even rare items that probably never will become inscribed neither change in any way (like the Icy Dragon Sword, Prophecies rewards, collectors and other combinatios that do not match PvP available combinations) That is good too!

The core system is inscriptions now. It's not 'give them easier' it's make it a bit more versatile and add more variety. After the Insignia update, you see many people wearing Tyrian an Canthan armors where almost everyone had Nightfall ones only. Isn't now much better? Or you just want all the female elementalists wear the same Sunspear Outfit all over the game?

Won't be better having warriors wearing a Gothic defender with their Kurcick armor instead of 'Breaker Hollow's' Naga Skin Wooden Buckler?
Won't be better not everyone going all over the place with the Exalted Aegis?
I don't want everyone looking the same.

You can't compare the rarity of an Ascalon Bow to the rarity of an Elemental sword, so, why should be a common ascalon bow more rare than an elemental? Hm... hm... just because someone wants to keep it as cash in their storage?

And for the stats with no inscription equivalent, either they won't change or new inscriptions would be added. That's so obvious I can't believe you can think of it. They left the 15%unconditional modifiers untouched. And they COULD change them.

On top of that, if PvE players can get items that are impossible to be made in PvP, that's imbalanced and should be changed. So those combinations have to be made possible in PvP by adding more upgrades or just banish. Pet system should be changed too to allow dire/heart for PvP characters. I'm sure such things will be added.

It doesn't matter if a combination can't be made, if you can get that combination in only 1 out of 100000 items dropped.
Even unique items may drop 1 out of 10 times a boss is killed.

Oofus · Aug 07, 2007, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by TabascoSauce

These are the same people who are always saying "suck it up - change happens - adapt" in other threads, but now they are crying and whining about how their "precious" gear will become......common?

Waaaah.

Who among us have you seen saying that? Either back up your obnoxious accusations with some proof or don't make such statements. Typical ignorance, you have no real facts so you make some up to suite your needs and spout them as if they're true. If you are going to make blanket accusations of hypocrisy then have the cojones to at least include some actual quotes to back it up. Otherwise you just look like a whining baby yourself.

.

lyra_song · Aug 07, 2007, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by boko

Yes. We can see that. You turn your coat whenever that pleases you. Talk about being hypocrite. The fact that you post in favour means that you agree to an issue. Tell me when did you try to be neutral in this whole matter?

Do you want me to argue on behalf of not adding inscriptions? I could do that too.

Quote:

Your view is narrowed by what you want instead of considering the effect of such a change.

Well of course i have a bias. I never said i wasnt. I do have an opinion on the matter after all.

Quote:

So because your motivation is to give existing players a better choices, that means that you can just ignore the hard work of others? Just because you want to see only part of equation, does not make the other part of the equation dissapear. Your view on the subject as I said, is narrow-minded. You fail to see the whole consequences of the suggestion. You are motivated by what YOU want. Even at the cost of something that you yourself were defending in another thread.

I have weighed the costs vs the benefits and I personally think its worth it. Simple as that. Not to be mean, but its just collateral damage to me, to you, to everyone with good stat-ed rare items.

Quote:

Yes. You are. By posting in favour of a thread with the very explicit title of : "How to drive away the hard core collectors in PvE" , you are taking a stance in the movement. In other words, yes, you are contributing in trying to chase out players. You did not realise that? Please tell me you dun;t vote in your country.

If you did try to take a neutral stance, then it would have been otherwise, but you clearly DID take a side.

Hmn...even though the title of the thread seems menacing, when i read the OP, its an open call for discussion asking how we felt about it, hence, me posting. Didn't you read the op?

Quote:

Yes. Irrespective of what you or I think, It's Anet's Choice. Then, nobody won't mind if that thread is closed already? Or are people only interested in trying to cry and cry to try and pressure Anet into doing what they want?

Im not trying to cry or pressure Anet, lord knows they got enough problems with PvPers.

Im pointing out the reasoning if/when such change does happen and why it would be beneficial to a lot more players, since some people are ignoring those reasons altogether, in favor of maintaining a status quo that only benefits them.

Like you say, its Anet's choice, but that doesnt mean you and I cannot voice our opinions on the matter. Besides, its fun.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowsRequiem

Combos NOT Availible. read it. These combos CANNOT be replicated through pvp or NF INSCRIPTIONS. Sometimes overall armor is better then a +30. This helps my point because i'm saying Oofus has a good point.
Example :
You cannot make a req divine staff with a 20% healing prayers HCT on it with the new system.

Proof of an imbalanced and broken system.

If a PvE player can gain an item that could be advantageous in PvP, and cannot be gained through the PvP item creation system, it creates an imbalance of PvE vs PvP characters.

This would be equal to when the Lieutenant's helm didnt exist as a PvP item.

For reason of imbalance alone, you have illustrated a perfect reason why the system needs to be changed.

(I already know someone will say "Oh but pvp character can buy it, the Lieutenant's helm cannot be traded", that point is moot, since that doesnt invalidate the inequality.)

Mordakai · Aug 07, 2007, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Screw inscriptions. I want Free Chests in Tyria!

Seriously, if the issue is making nice Golds more attainable to casual players, Free Chests would be an ideal solution. All my usable Golds have come from Free Chests in Nightfall.

Spazzer · Aug 07, 2007, 05:23 PM // 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by boko

Oh dear...The community is in an even worse state than I thought then...lol

Quote:

As pointed by the so-intelligent title of this thread :"How to drive away hardcore collectors in PvE", they are set on a very stupid witchhunt... because they are ... stupid ....

If you can't debate like an adult, you shouldn't be pointing your fingers at other people for the supposed problem with the community. As far as I could tell, despite the fact that we've been repeating the same point over and over again, this has been very civil.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

Spazzer (nice name, pet name perhaps

)

I earned it playing Quake with wicked-fast reflexes. I'm older now and I have average-fast reflexes, but it's hard to shake a moniker after you've used it so long.

Quote:

I still don't understand your infatuation with 'balance', explain..

As far as I'm concern, Anets love of balance killed PvE.

Wait, what? They introduced PvE-only skills so that people wouldn't complain about this.

Entreri · Aug 07, 2007, 05:27 PM // 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by boko

Oo... It is completely related. Inscription came with NF, and Anet decided NOT to implement them in other chapters. They added it for Zodiac only. Yet they did it for all armors irrespective of chapters. They have their reasons. So,please respect them. Anet caters to everyone, not just YOU. Guess what there are other people playing the game apart from you. It's NOT up to the players to decide that they need to drive away hard core collectors in pve. Who are you to decide who is to be chased out?

This is flawed logic. It has the unspoken (and wrong) assumption that everything the dev team does is perfect and nobody can suggest a valid improvement.

When GW came out, there was no Balthazar faction and you could only unlock through PvE. Players complained about this. Look at the bold part above and apply it against putting in Balthazar faction before they made the change. 'They have their reasons', so it shouldn't go in, right?

Then apply the same statement AFTER they put Balthazar faction in. 'They have their reasons' so it should be in, right?

Devs have been known to make changes based upon issues players see in the game. This can end up being a good thing and it's not any disrespect to the devs when somebody brings something up.

Spazzer · Aug 07, 2007, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Oh god, Enteri, do you remember refund points too?

lyra_song · Aug 07, 2007, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spazzer

Oh god, Enteri, do you remember refund points too?

off topic, i liked refund points! they let you create builds that spanned multiple attributes, by switching helms and increasing attributes, you could have 16 divine with a divine scalp to cast your enchants, then switch to a prot scalp and 16 prot to start farming. It was fun.