Curse

boko · Aug 07, 2007, 02:32 AM // 02:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Mate, a rare req 9 15..28 Ascalon Flatbow IS NOT a Porsche. But it can take ages to get one with a decent req.

Why should a collector bow be almost better than a gold one of the same req and base damage? Hm... eh... no... no reason to.

Got the point?

Because gold= rare maybe? SO to get one which is worthwhile, you need ... luck?

And a collector is for those people who dun't want to depend on luck?

Thought that was clear.... the purpose of collectors....

sixdartbart · Aug 07, 2007, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Mate, a rare req 9 15..28 Ascalon Flatbow IS NOT a Porsche. But it can take ages to get one with a decent req.

Why should a collector bow be almost better than a gold one of the same req and base damage? Hm... eh... no... no reason to.

Got the point?

You need a gold one why?
You just stated that collector versions are available but you WANT a gold one.

This pretty much covers most of the arguments made here and in all topics like this, no matter how many times people say it's not a vanity issue thats what it comes down to more times than not.

Again I call on ANET to just implement weapon selection at character creation {any skin any req any mods you want} since it will be at character creation there can be no fee.
Anything short of this won't satisfy many of the people I see make the same arguments over and over.

lyra_song · Aug 07, 2007, 02:37 AM // 02:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by boko

There is no problem with the inscription system itself. But there is a major problem in the way people on this thread want to implement it. They want to "drive away hard core collectors in PvE".

That still doesnt address the fact that the inscription system is better.

The motivations behind some people's approval is irrelevant to the outcome of the implementation, since that wouldnt be the intent of the implementation itself, since i doubt Anet wants to drive their customers away intentionally.

Implementing the inscription system would be a move to equalize the games in weapon system flexibility, customizability and usability.

Quote:

They want to kick those who actually went through all the trouble to get those items and god knows how hard they are to get, in the nuts, where that hurts the most.

That sob story aside, you've yet to present me with a real logical downside to implementing this system into Tyria/Cantha.

The only real downside i see is the fact that it will be difficult to implement and is it really worth all that trouble.

Quote:

Now tell me, would there actually be a problem if the drops in GWEN were part tyrian and inscriptable while the whole drop system in Tyria stays the same as it is? (while leaving the hard core collectors with their candies untouched)

Nothing, other than the fact that still leaves players with just Prophecies or Factions with an inferior system.

Again, the issue which is what i want you to address.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixdartbart

That pretty much covers your purpose here eh?
no response required I don't want to be the reason for more of your spam.

I find arguing fun. Period.

That doesnt invalidate the points that i bring up.

Instead of attacking me, why dont you try to counter my point. Which is how proper argument and debate works.

cellardweller · Aug 07, 2007, 02:39 AM // 02:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by boko

Now tell me, would there actually be a problem if the drops in GWEN were part tyrian and inscriptable while the whole drop system in Tyria stays the same as it is? (while leaving the hard core collectors with their candies untouched)

I think Dr Strangelove conveyed the problem most people have with the current system quite succinctly:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

All this, plus I'd actually like to be able to use my lockpicks in Cantha and Prophecies, since I mostly play there.

To be honest, I think the only way to appease those that want good looking stuff and those that want rare stuff at the same time is to seperate the two sets. Chrystalines are a good example of this, the collectors are happy because they have something rare to shoot for and normal players don't care because its not a particularly attractive skin (at least I don't know anyone that likes it

). Its only when access to things like platinum staffs is limited that fur starts flying.

Oofus · Aug 07, 2007, 02:48 AM // 02:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Does anyone who is against the inscription system actually have anything to say against the fact that Nightfall's inscription system is a superior system with customizability, usability and flexibility?

All i keep seeing is "its not that hard to get stuff" or "let them have their cake" type responses, which do not address that very important point.

Sure I have something to say against Nightfall's "superior system with customizability, usability and flexibility" actually. When you can show me an inscribable version of any of these few examples then I'll agree that you have a singular point there. (ignore the req of 7, that is not the point I'm getting at)

You can't though because it simply is NOT a "superior system with customizability, usability and flexibility", in fact it is INFERIOR. It leaves out MANY possibilities. I could post several dozen other examples of impossible to inscribe stats, but frankly I think 6 random pieces from 1 panel in my storage demonstrates the point well enough. These are pieces I use regularly and would hate to not have the option of using.

Dr Strangelove · Aug 07, 2007, 02:49 AM // 02:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowsRequiem

Funny i've seen just about inscriptable versions of all these items you have listed. Strange. No?

the other items you listed are strictly collector items.

From guildwiki:

Inscriptions can only be salvaged from, and added to, items found in the Nightfall Campaign, items from the end chest of the Factions elite missions: The Deep and Urgoz's Warren, or item from the Hall of Heroes chest.

Ok, so cut out vertebreakers and oni blades. There is a tiny chance of some of the above dropping from the HoH chest, but that really doesn't factor into whether drops in Cantha and Tyria should be made inscribable.

Anyway, this is off topic. The point is still, and will always be, that drops in factions and prophecies suck compared to those in nightfall thanks to an antiquated system. Please stop trying to change the subject.

Quote:

Originally Posted by boko

There is no problem with the inscription system itself. But there is a major problem in the way people on this thread want to implement it. They want to "drive away hard core collectors in PvE".

Honestly, I don't care whether you collect stuff or not. Inscriptions has nothing to do with this. Last time I checked, there were plenty of rare skins in Elona that are highly sought after, despite inscriptions. Inscriptions just make the more common skins exactly that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by boko

Welcome to Guild Wars. That has always been the case. I'd even add that it is even worse now. It take forever to get anything now.

I don't know what you're talking about. Thanks to inscriptions in Elona, I'm using weapons from my own drops, both for myself and my heroes. Maybe, just maybe, this system might be a good idea in the other two campaigns?

I was tempted to make a comment about loot scaling, but I don't want this thread to get derailed again.

boko · Aug 07, 2007, 02:51 AM // 02:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

That still doesnt address the fact that the inscription system is better.

Nobody said that the inscription system is worse. Less prestigeous and an insult to old skool players, yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

The motivations behind some people's approval is irrelevant to the outcome of the implementation, since that wouldnt be the intent of the implementation itself, since i doubt Anet wants to drive their customers away intentionally..

Oh no, it's not Anets that want to drive the hard core players away. It's the lazy players that populate the GW population that want that. That's a player vs player issue. The GW Pvp format forum mode and much more fun to some, as i can see.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Implementing the inscription system would be a move to equalize the games in weapon system flexibility, customizability and usability.

That sob story aside, you've yet to present me with a real logical downside to implementing this system into Tyria/Cantha.

The only real downside i see is the fact that it will be difficult to implement and is it really worth all that trouble.

Really? I thought it was you who was in some other threads ago, saying that diminishing the accomplishment of one was unacceptable, or something along the line.... something like in a thread about PvP getting access to PvE items?

So, if it suits you, then it is suddenly acceptable to diminished one's achievement? O.o

If I am mistaken, please correct me....

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Nothing, other than the fact that still leaves players with just Prophecies or Factions with an inferior system.

Again, the issue which is what i want you to address.

An inferior system as intended by Anet. They did add inscribable Zodiac weapon in the game afterall. They could as well make the whole cantha continent inscribable too, but they chose otherwise.

You want a better system, then pay for it. Buy NF or GWEN. And what are you going to say about sunspear skills? They make Proph campaign look inferior too, should Anet add them to Proph chapter too? What about heroes?

Added :
Sidenote: Another solution I thought of would be make all drop inscribable but leave the damn collector people and their candies alone. Sound fair? or going to cry more?

Oofus · Aug 07, 2007, 02:56 AM // 02:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by boko

Nobody said that the inscription system is worse.

Scroll up, I just did.

lyra_song · Aug 07, 2007, 03:16 AM // 03:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oofus

Sure I have something to say against Nightfall's "superior system with customizability, usability and flexibility" actually. When you can show me an inscribable version of any of these few examples then I'll agree that you have a singular point there. (ignore the req of 7, that is not the point I'm getting at)

You can't though because it simply is NOT a "superior system with customizability, usability and flexibility", in fact it is INFERIOR. It leaves out MANY possibilities. I could post several dozen other examples of impossible to inscribe stats, but frankly I think 6 random pieces from 1 panel in my storage demonstrates the point well enough. These are pieces I use regularly and would hate to not have the option of using.

Nice items. The fact that good items with stats like that are very rare, adds justification to the fact that that system is inferior, since a good majority of rare items from Tyria/Cantha do not have such good stats and collector items to match those are impossible to find.

I dont mind having people with their vanity, but you having superior stat weapons, unattainable through collector/weaponsmiths, is an imbalance and flaw.

While the inscription system does NOT have the ability to reproduce all possible mods from the older system, its an obvious move by Anet towards balance since they intentionally made some mod combinations impossible to get. The PvP weapon crafting system mirrors inscription system, and it seems to me that Anet has LIMITED it intentionally so that certain mods will never combine.

Also, the fact that good items exist through the older system doesnt compensate for the huge pile of unusable items that it creates through the random generation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by boko

Really? I thought it was you who was in some other threads ago, saying that diminishing the accomplishment of one was unacceptable, or something along the line.... something like in a thread about PvP getting access to PvE items?

So, if it suits you, then it is suddenly acceptable to diminished one's achievement? O.o

If I am mistaken, please correct me....

The ATS skins? My stance is still that, PvPers should be getting rewarded with PvP, not PvE related things.

Being that Vanity and skins are PvE based rewards, they should remain PvE rewards.

Titles and /rank are PvP rewards and should remain so.

I also mentioned that PvPers, IF they really should get skin rewards, should get items unique to them (unique PvP-only armor sets) and are unavailable through PvP, to make the reward more meaningful.

Quote:

And what are you going to say about sunspear skills? They make Proph campaign look inferior too, should Anet add them to Proph chapter too? What about heroes?

Invalid comparison.

Weapons exist in all 3 games.
PvE skills only exists in Factions and Nightfall (so far)....i dont see them NOT including it in Prophecies actually....
As for hereoes....Heroes only exist in Nightfall (so far).

Oofus · Aug 07, 2007, 03:21 AM // 03:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Nice items. The fact that good items with stats like that are very rare, adds justification to the fact that that system is inferior, since a good majority of rare items from Tyria/Cantha do not have such good stats and collector items to match those are impossible to find.

I thank you for the compliment but no, those are not very rare stats. You can buy items with those stats (save for the req7) for peanuts these days. So it does not add justification to any such thing.

ShadowsRequiem · Aug 07, 2007, 03:21 AM // 03:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

From guildwiki:

Inscriptions can only be salvaged from, and added to, items found in the Nightfall Campaign, items from the end chest of the Factions elite missions: The Deep and Urgoz's Warren, or item from the Hall of Heroes chest.

Ok, so cut out vertebreakers and oni blades. There is a tiny chance of some of the above dropping from the HoH chest, but that really doesn't factor into whether drops in Cantha and Tyria should be made inscribable.

Anyway, this is off topic. The point is still, and will always be, that drops in factions and prophecies suck compared to those in nightfall thanks to an antiquated system. Please stop trying to change the subject.

Honestly, I don't care whether you collect stuff or not. Inscriptions has nothing to do with this. Last time I checked, there were plenty of rare skins in Elona that are highly sought after, despite inscriptions. Inscriptions just make the more common skins exactly that.

I don't know what you're talking about. Thanks to inscriptions in Elona, I'm using weapons from my own drops, both for myself and my heroes. Maybe, just maybe, this system might be a good idea in the other two campaigns?

I was tempted to make a comment about loot scaling, but I don't want this thread to get derailed again.

Imo if you're getting stuff off wiki do your homework a lil more, gold inscript zodiac weapons aren't the only things that drop from the deep/urgoz chest. Countless other cathan skins drop there as well : plat blades and broadsword are two examples.

not just a lil chance in the hoh chest, as it drop almost every single skin.

Sucks compared to NF? huh? items that drop are just as good, dunno about you but i'm content with the drops i've gotten in catha and proph they've been much better then the crap i get in nf.... wonder why.

I also Agree with Oofus 100%. This system isnt superior, it locks out COUNTLESS combos you "could" make
for instance I have a +10 vs piercing dmg and -2 in stance shield. That cant be replicated.

lyra_song · Aug 07, 2007, 03:26 AM // 03:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oofus

I thank you for the compliment but no, those are not very rare stats. You can buy items with those stats (save for the req7) for peanuts these days. So it does not add justification to any such thing.

You are willing to tell me that rare drops in Tyria and Cantha have large percentage of usable stats?

How about addressing the issue that these stats are not reproduceable except through the random assignment of the old weapon drop system?

Oofus · Aug 07, 2007, 03:31 AM // 03:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

these stats are not reproduceable except through the random assignment of the old weapon drop system?

Thank you for agreeing with me. I accept your apology.

capitalist · Aug 07, 2007, 03:37 AM // 03:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

You are willing to tell me that rare drops in Tyria and Cantha have large percentage of usable stats?

I am willing to say that.

lyra_song · Aug 07, 2007, 03:41 AM // 03:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oofus

Thank you for agreeing with me. I accept your apology.

ROFL. That was precious. I almost spat my apple juice. Thanks for making me laugh.

Im agreeing with the fact that these stats are only reproduceable through a random system.

However that fact is not a positive.

It doesnt make it superior in:
customizability: Your mods are locked.
flexibility: Your mods are locked.
useability: Your mods are locked.

And lets not forget that those mods are random and out of the player's control, and the system produces garbage much more easily than it does use-able items.

Your system is not superior. Its just random.

cellardweller · Aug 07, 2007, 03:41 AM // 03:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oofus

I thank you for the compliment but no, those are not very rare stats. You can buy items with those stats (save for the req7) for peanuts these days. So it does not add justification to any such thing.

In 2 years of playing I have had a total 2 staves with perfect mods and drop for me I've never had a shield, offhand or wand drop with perfect stats, regardless of the req or the skin. Saying that they're not rare is either untruth or a massive statistical anomoly.

A solution that could satisfy both parties is the ablity to have drops stay as they are, but allow inscriptions to be added to them in a one way process that will change a 15/-5 to a "Strength and Honor".

ShadowsRequiem · Aug 07, 2007, 03:49 AM // 03:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by cellardweller

In 2 years of playing I have had a total 2 staves with perfect mods and drop for me I've never had a shield, offhand or wand drop with perfect stats, regardless of the req or the skin. Saying that they're not rare is either untruth or a massive statistical anomoly.

A solution that could satisfy both parties is the ablity to have drops stay as they are, but allow inscriptions to be added to them in a one way process that will change a 15/-5 to a "Strength and Honor".

That is a good idea as long as the make more inscriptions.

The problem still stands with unconditional mods. Thats why it should be left as it is.

Dr Strangelove · Aug 07, 2007, 04:07 AM // 04:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowsRequiem

Imo if you're getting stuff off wiki do your homework a lil more, gold inscript zodiac weapons aren't the only things that drop from the deep/urgoz chest. Countless other cathan skins drop there as well : plat blades and broadsword are two examples.

Meh, my bad, I've only completed the elite missions a couple times each. The point still stands that inscribable weapons don't drop for 99% of Cantha. I ignored HoH because again, not Cantha or Tyria. I'm not annoyed because of some specific skin that I think I'm entitled to, I'm annoyed because the drops I get in Cantha and Tyria are mostly useless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowsRequiem

Sucks compared to NF? huh? items that drop are just as good, dunno about you but i'm content with the drops i've gotten in catha and proph they've been much better then the crap i get in nf.... wonder why.

I call shenanigans.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowsRequiem

I also Agree with Oofus 100%. This system isnt superior, it locks out COUNTLESS combos you "could" make
for instance I have a +10 vs piercing dmg and -2 in stance shield. That cant be replicated.

Combos not available in PvP... Combos that could be considered "better". Max items with a req below 9. How on earth do you think this helps your arguement?

boko · Aug 07, 2007, 04:11 AM // 04:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

The ATS skins? My stance is still that, PvPers should be getting rewarded with PvP, not PvE related things.

Being that Vanity and skins are PvE based rewards, they should remain PvE rewards.

Titles and /rank are PvP rewards and should remain so.

I also mentioned that PvPers, IF they really should get skin rewards, should get items unique to them (unique PvP-only armor sets) and are unavailable through PvP, to make the reward more meaningful.).

In other words, you change your coat as it suits you. You vouch for the that accomplishment is respected and not diminised, yet on another side, you vouch for the hard work of others to be diminished just because YOU want to get some weird combo of item, or skins.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Invalid comparison.

Weapons exist in all 3 games.
PvE skills only exists in Factions and Nightfall (so far)....i dont see them NOT including it in Prophecies actually....
As for hereoes....Heroes only exist in Nightfall (so far).

Oo... It is completely related. Inscription came with NF, and Anet decided NOT to implement them in other chapters. They added it for Zodiac only. Yet they did it for all armors irrespective of chapters. They have their reasons. So,please respect them. Anet caters to everyone, not just YOU. Guess what there are other people playing the game apart from you. It's NOT up to the players to decide that they need to drive away hard core collectors in pve. Who are you to decide who is to be chased out?

Snow Bunny · Aug 07, 2007, 04:31 AM // 04:31

I have a q8 15^50 Broadsword and a q8 15^50 Shinobi blade, and a q7 15^50 Falchion, all unscribable

Do you have an idea of how much effort was put into acquiring those weapons? How much they cost?

I have never heard of/seen another of either. I've seen a q9 15^50 shinobi blade.

An inscription system would ruin the beauty of these weapons.