Curse

Dr Strangelove · Aug 07, 2007, 12:34 AM // 00:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

I still don't understand your infatuation with 'balance', explain..

As far as I'm concern, Anets love of balance killed PvE.

I dunno, I'm kind of a big fanboy for balance in PvE. There's a billion Diablo 2 clones out there where you can steamroll monsters with your eyes closed and both hands tied behind your back. They're fun, for about 15 minutes. It kinda like that in Guild Wars I have to put together a nice build and organize a team before I can steamroll monsters blindfolded.

This kinda-sorta-not-really ties into my fetish for inscriptions and such. There's a billion Diablo 2 clones where you can grind endlessly for uber-powerful weapons so you can kill uber-powerful things at the end of the game. In Elona, it's really nice to be able to just play missions and quests without farming like you're from the midwest. The inscription system doesn't kill farming, though. There are still torment weapons, elemental swords, colossal scimitars, etc. for those with a love of shinies. You can farm and grind those things all day and feel really happy when you get one. When you have to farm endlessly just to get a 15>50 longsword, something is probably wrong.

All this, plus I'd actually like to be able to use my lockpicks in Cantha and Prophecies, since I mostly play there.

boko · Aug 07, 2007, 12:34 AM // 00:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

Ah, I forgot, being a mod entitles me to no opinion correct? and I must spend all my time in Ventari's writing up user notes for the same people for the same violations? nah, I'd die of boredom. This thread interests me, so I will continue to post until I grow tired of it. That ok with you?

Spazzer (nice name, pet name perhaps

)

I still don't understand your infatuation with 'balance', explain..

As far as I'm concern, Anets love of balance killed PvE.

He does not really care about balance, is it obvious?
Straight from the horse's mouth :

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spazzer

Unconditional weapons are the obstacle stopping us from having inscriptions in all 3 campaigns. Either they get reworked/removed, or they add a new unconditional inscription. Any way they choose to handle this, the two people who would care about it will cry to no end. They'd cry because they lost their unconditional weapon. They'd cry because their unconditional weapon was no longer unconditional. They'd cry because other people have unconditional weapons. I find it very hard to respect them.

He is only using that as a pretext to justify the need to remove those weapons or acheive his wants. Yes wants, not needs. So does most of those for that post. All they want is that they get their stuff easily irrespective of the others feelings. As pointed by the so-intelligent title of this thread :"How to drive away hardcore collectors in PvE", they are set on a very stupid witchhunt... because they are ... stupid ....

Hopefully, ANet knows what they are doing and are going to keep both system. Since I already found out that major parts of GWEN actually happens in Tyria, I would not be surprised if they drops tyrian items with inscription slots in GWEN zones. In other words, Anet may be planning to keep both system for the better. And hopefully, that will also calm down the crybabies on this thread.

Clone · Aug 07, 2007, 12:38 AM // 00:38

Yes, Anet, please save us from affordable weapons and the horrors of not having to grind for weeks to get decent loot... [/sarcasm]

against · Aug 07, 2007, 12:53 AM // 00:53

I think it would be sexy if my req. 8 rare skin bow collection were inscribable, honestly. Req. 9 items may as well be inscribable anyway, because they are low-class trash. Sometimes, I feel dirty when I think about my Tormented Recurve being req. 9. It's really a disgrace to the rest of my bows, but I just had to have it.

boko · Aug 07, 2007, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clone

Yes, Anet, please save us from affordable weapons and the horrors of not having to grind for weeks to get decent loot... [/sarcasm]

Where have you been living? Weapons were always affordable. Collector items are dead cheap. But oh you want prestige items without even lifting a finger.... riiight... Maybe they should just allow everyone to start with everything already.... [/sarcasm]

You want to look good without lifting a finger? Here's a tip for you. Go mod your own GW. This is very popular lately. You can look pretty and can even get more customisation than ever. And leave others to enjoy the game the way Anet designed it.

seut · Aug 07, 2007, 12:55 AM // 00:55

The inscription system was introduced, because even with the extensive crafter & collector possibilities in Tyria & Cantha there were many wanted combinations not possible to obtain through those means.
To name a few:
- recurve bow with +5energy
- shields with +10armor vs. damage type
- wands & focuses with 15/-1energy and 10% hsr/hct

The system was added to gain flexibility, not to destroy the fun of rare item collectors.
Even in Nightfall there were a few ultra rare items with high values (Elemental Swords, Colossal Scimitars). The reason why those skins dropped in price wasn't the inscription system, it was the introduction of hard mode with its extended farming possibilities!

sixdartbart · Aug 07, 2007, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

I dunno, I'm kind of a big fanboy for balance in PvE.

Balance in PvE??? God I hope you were joking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

When you have to farm endlessly just to get a 15>50 longsword, something is probably wrong.

You know these are "core" weapons and drop in all 3 campains right?
Kinda hard to walk through Mirror of Lyss without getting a couple of them just from chests.

And just so we are clear I would really like to see the list of weapons everyone is complaining about that you want to see inscribable versions of.

ShadowsRequiem · Aug 07, 2007, 01:09 AM // 01:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixdartbart

Balance in PvE??? God I hope you were joking.

You know these are "core" weapons and drop in all 3 campains right?
Kinda hard to walk through Mirror of Lyss without getting a couple of them just from chests.

And just so we are clear I would really like to see the list of weapons everyone is complaining about that you want to see inscribable versions of.

Yah the list of weapons will only be the rarest of rare skins. Most first game items drop in NF

sorry guys if you got a crappy req 9 14 vs hexed serpent axe and you just want to have everything made inscriptable for your own gain :P

sixdartbart · Aug 07, 2007, 01:25 AM // 01:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by seut

The inscription system was introduced, because even with the extensive crafter & collector possibilities in Tyria & Cantha there were many wanted combinations not possible to obtain through those means.
To name a few:
- recurve bow with +5energy
- shields with +10armor vs. damage type
- wands & focuses with 15/-1energy and 10% hsr/hct

The system was added to gain flexibility, not to destroy the fun of rare item collectors.
Even in Nightfall there were a few ultra rare items with high values (Elemental Swords, Colossal Scimitars). The reason why those skins dropped in price wasn't the inscription system, it was the introduction of hard mode with its extended farming possibilities!

umm you mean stuff like in these screens? Please note the lack of inscriptions.
Granted you can't just go to a collector to get these but they were by no means hard to obtain.

It seems to me that people want everything to be available to them with little or no effort and seriously if you need special weapon sets that aren't available at collectors/crafters to kill the retarded AI beasties with all of the IMBA skills available the weapons sets aren't gonna help you at all.

Dr Strangelove · Aug 07, 2007, 01:28 AM // 01:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixdartbart

Balance in PvE??? God I hope you were joking.

You know these are "core" weapons and drop in all 3 campains right?
Kinda hard to walk through Mirror of Lyss without getting a couple of them just from chests.

And just so we are clear I would really like to see the list of weapons everyone is complaining about that you want to see inscribable versions of.

I just did swords because I'm lazy. Figure there's about the same amount of staves, wands, foci, shields, axes, daggers and hammers. Stolen from http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Sword

# Broadsword
# Celestial Sword
# Crenellated Sword
# Dadao Sword
# Dusk Blade
# Golden Phoenix Blade
# Gothic Sword
# Jade Sword
# Katana
# Oni Blade
# Plagueborn Sword
# Platinum Blade
# Shinobi Blade
# Sunqua Blade
# Wicked Blade
# Vertebreaker
# Zodiac Sword
# Non-standard swords

* Jitte (blunt damage)

# Ascalon Razor
# Forked Sword
# Plasma Blade
# Rinblade
# Scimitar
Shadow Blade
Crystalline Sword

Anyway, although I own all 3 campaigns, I play primarily in prophecies and factions. It would be nice if I could share in the excitement of getting a single useful drop after completing the whole damn game in hard mode.

And yes, balance in PvE. Game where you click once and everything dies are retarded. If monsters can't beat the living crap out of me, the game isn't fun. If certain classes are totally useless, the game isn't fun.

As things stand, normal mode PvE is better balanced than most, but still kinda lame. Hard mode PvE is surprisingly well balanced, the best I've ever seen in a game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by boko

Where have you been living? Weapons were always affordable. Collector items are dead cheap. But oh you want prestige items without even lifting a finger.... riiight... Maybe they should just allow everyone to start with everything already....

No, I want the damned things to drop when I play through missions and quests. Farming is about as fun as cleaning my apartment with a toothbrush - it takes forever, and the benefit you get in the end isn't worth the headache.

MithranArkanere · Aug 07, 2007, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Getting easy prestige items? Who said that?
Bleh. Weapons like Elemental swords or Fiery/Icy Blade axes are rare, and hard to find, and expensive, yet they may come inscribed. They may be trash if they come without inscription slot, like the (pre-Searin Cristallie skin, for show, no use). And they can come without it. I got myself many weapons with two upgrades and no inscriptions an focir/shilds with upgrade but no inscription.

So don't come saying inscriptions are bad. It just makes rare skins more important, and average skins, like Jade Daggers or Ascalon Bows, just that: average.

Since collector, crafted, quest rewards and unique rares like icy dragon swords or weapons with poperties that do not match inscriptions would not be affected by getting inscribed. It would hurt no one.
They left the unconditional 15% damage untouched, and they could fix them if they wanted to. With inscriptions added, they would keep the unconditional 15% instead getting an inscription slot. Bur modifiers with equivalent inscriptions would get changed, not all of them. That's all.

It would just make a max-req9, 15%^50 the same as a max-req9, 14%^50.
But the important thing would stay the same, and the price should depend on that only:
- Skin
- Base damage
- Requirement.
- Having inscription slot.
Inscriptions can't affect that.

It's not that perfect crystallines would start dropping from Level 2 Resurrect gargoyles or level 0 Mantid Monitors, and a req 7 would always e more expensive than a req 11! For Grenth's sake!

Malice Black · Aug 07, 2007, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clone

Yes, Anet, please save us from affordable weapons and the horrors of not having to grind for weeks to get decent loot... [/sarcasm]

This sentence fails on so many levels.

Very few things are not affordable for your 'average joe'. Things that use to cost 1million now cost 10k, how is that not afforable. If people really can't get together 10-20k in gold to buy some stuff then they need to either quit or learn to play. Just by playing through the game you can get 100k+, there is no excuse for people to be dead broke.

boko · Aug 07, 2007, 01:57 AM // 01:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

No, I want the damned things to drop when I play through missions and quests. Farming is about as fun as cleaning my apartment with a toothbrush - it takes forever, and the benefit you get in the end isn't worth the headache.

Welcome to Guild Wars. That has always been the case. I'd even add that it is even worse now. It take forever to get anything now. Titles and items. Special thanks to the constant attempt to fight bots. Ask the PvPers how hard it is to make their char look cool.

Unfortunately, some people went through all this and in spite of all the problems, managed to pull out a little gem. Let them have their candy. They dun't affect the game, not poses any threat to balance whatsoever.

If you can't get those items, or even bothered to get these items, where is the problems? There are other items in game. Just go for the accessible one according to your criteria and time. You ain't gonna be disadvantaged.They do the same dmg. Go for greenies instead. Anet added them especially for this reason. I wonder what is gonna be next? People whining that Elemental sword are too rare or hard to get?

If you dun't have the cash for a porsche, stop being so needy and whiny, and settle for another one. A car is a car. Whatever the brand.

Or Just wait for GWEN. Ain't that far, is it?

lyra_song · Aug 07, 2007, 02:05 AM // 02:05

Does anyone who is against the inscription system actually have anything to say against the fact that Nightfall's inscription system is a superior system with customizability, usability and flexibility?

All i keep seeing is "its not that hard to get stuff" or "let them have their cake" type responses, which do not address that very important point.

boko · Aug 07, 2007, 02:17 AM // 02:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Does anyone who is against the inscription system actually have anything to say against the fact that Nightfall's inscription system is a superior system with customizability, usability and flexibility?

All i keep seeing is "its not that hard to get stuff" or "let them have their cake" type responses, which do not address that very important point.

There is no problem with the inscription system itself. But there is a major problem in the way people on this thread want to implement it. They want to "drive away hard core collectors in PvE".

They want to kick those who actually went through all the trouble to get those items and god knows how hard they are to get, in the nuts, where that hurts the most.

Now tell me, would there actually be a problem if the drops in GWEN were part tyrian and inscriptable while the whole drop system in Tyria stays the same as it is? (while leaving the hard core collectors with their candies untouched)

seut · Aug 07, 2007, 02:20 AM // 02:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixdartbart

umm you mean stuff like in these screens? Please note the lack of inscriptions.
Granted you can't just go to a collector to get these but they were by no means hard to obtain.

That's where i beg to differ. I used to farm a lot during the Prophecies only days and until i got the Maatu Keep crafter in Factions, my necromancer used a 14/-1energy deadly cesta for my high energy weapons set (yes, 1 imperfect mod only).
Furthermore i remember several people in guru's irc channel promising large sums for a +5energy recurve bow last summer.

In my experience such items were hard to obtain before inscriptions. Collectors/crafters just can't cover all the possible demand in mod combinations.

sixdartbart · Aug 07, 2007, 02:23 AM // 02:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

I just did swords because I'm lazy. Figure there's about the same amount of staves, wands, foci, shields, axes, daggers and hammers. Stolen from http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Sword

# Broadsword
# Celestial Sword
# Crenellated Sword
# Dadao Sword
# Dusk Blade
# Golden Phoenix Blade
# Gothic Sword
# Jade Sword
# Katana
# Oni Blade
# Plagueborn Sword
# Platinum Blade
# Shinobi Blade
# Sunqua Blade
# Wicked Blade
# Vertebreaker
# Zodiac Sword
# Non-standard swords

* Jitte (blunt damage)

# Ascalon Razor
# Forked Sword
# Plasma Blade
# Rinblade
# Scimitar
Shadow Blade
Crystalline Sword

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't they already make inscribable versions of Canthan weapons available somewhere in Cantha? {I don't go to Cantha cause I'm afraid of catching something but I remember hearing something about them doing that}
Assuming I'm correct about that your list would be cut down to

3 non max swords {all 3 collector items}
Forked sword - which also drops in Cantha
Scimitar - which shares the same skin as several other "core" swords and drops in cantha.
Shadow Blade - Drops in Elona {already inscribable}
Crystalline Sword - {already inscribable}

Remaining list = ummm well don't see much so if you are right about all of the other weapon types I guess it will save a lot of typing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by boko

I wonder what is gonna be next? People whining that Elemental sword are too rare or hard to get?

You missed those threads?
I know I have seen a few months ago, no worries there will be more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_songs character description

Its way more fun to argue on GWGuru than to actually play the game

That pretty much covers your purpose here eh?
no response required I don't want to be the reason for more of your spam.

MithranArkanere · Aug 07, 2007, 02:25 AM // 02:25

Mate, a rare req 9 15..28 Ascalon Flatbow IS NOT a Porsche. But it can take ages to get one with a decent req.

Why should a collector bow be almost better than a gold one of the same req and base damage? Hm... eh... no... no reason to.

Got the point?

boko · Aug 07, 2007, 02:27 AM // 02:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixdartbart

You missed those threads?
I know I have seen a few months ago, no worries there will be more.

Oh dear...The community is in an even worse state than I thought then...lol

ShadowsRequiem · Aug 07, 2007, 02:28 AM // 02:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

# Broadsword
# Celestial Sword
# Crenellated Sword
# Dadao Sword
# Dusk Blade
# Golden Phoenix Blade
# Gothic Sword
# Jade Sword
# Katana
# Oni Blade
# Plagueborn Sword
# Platinum Blade
# Shinobi Blade
# Sunqua Blade
# Wicked Blade
# Vertebreaker
# Zodiac Sword
* Jitte (blunt damage)
# Forked Sword
# Scimitar
Shadow Blade
Crystalline Sword

Funny i've seen just about inscriptable versions of all these items you have listed. Strange. No?

the other items you listed are strictly collector items.