Curse

Mindcrime · Aug 06, 2007, 07:18 PM // 19:18

I'm amazed how the GW community seems more and more pathetic these days. Everyone seems to want be served on a plate without any effort by the player no longer.

And I guess, I shouldn't be surprised either.

I remember when the rune trader were introduced, collector weapons showed up, 55 monk killed everything, Sorrow's furnace were full of green weapons, HOD weapons were gone, AOE nerf caused a bug chaos of running mobs and the list goes on and on ... making GW easier, harder, lazier, slower back and forth with new updates.

People kept on and on accepting the changes, some didn't. Heroes and inscription system weren't my cup of tea, at all cause, it destroyed the challenge for me and drops were less important now.

I totally agree with Herb and Malice. Keep Tyria as it were before, the one and only original GW. Unconditionals weapons are a piece of forgotten originality, I see no reason to remove them.

milias · Aug 06, 2007, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

think for a moment.

those 100 K plus x extos purchases are as rare as the item as are the people willing to pay a million gold for an item

they represent an extremely tiny fragment of a single percent of the GW population (no matter how loud they are on forums) that they could all leave and not move NCsofts bottom line a thousandth of a per cent.

on the other hand there is a huge per cent of the population that would be very happy if Anet did this.

you do the math and it seems that the question is really WHEN they do it not IF they will do it.

I tend to disagree. Why? Well, even though most people do not have so-called perfect items, they nevertheless want these so-called perfect items. Call it human nature if you will. So, if these items were made to be more common and much easier to obtain, why would anyone want them anymore? For most people, it's the process of getting those items that they enjoy, not the fact of actually owning them.

The bottom line is - you take away the dream, you take away the desire to play, and then you lose players and customers. Simple as that.

If ANet is trying to make GW into something more like WoW - as they're likely to do in GW2 - it would be to their disadvantage to implement a change like this. If they did, they'd drive away their hardcore PvE player base, which is the same players that ANet expects to buy their GW2 when it comes out.

Anyway, just my $0.02.

The Herbalizer · Aug 06, 2007, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spazzer

Like I stated before: your boy scout promise to never use them has no effect on the debate. Besides, if you're doing the "civic duty" of customizing them just to take them out of the game, it shouldn't affect you if they are taken out.

I don't understand what you're getting at. Are you suggesting that unconditional weapons can only help you at VOD? That's very silly.

Because guild wars is dead.

"I know pvp people!" lol. I don't care what you say your friends say; I say you're full of doo doo. Unconditional, by definintion, is better than conditional.

Rarity has nothing to do with balance. You're making me repeat myself.

See above.

Incorrect. A 15% always weapon will always be imbalanced.

Because the game is dead. It doesn't hurt to try to get things improved, though. :]

You're still under the impression that your list is relevant. Rarity has nothing to do with balance.

You still don't get it; virtual money is not real money. I really don't care if my "assets" are devalued if I now have the opportunity to have the stats on my favorite items customized the way I want them.

Are you implying that you are rich and being victimized? I'm really not seeing the similarities.

Haven't you done that already?
Yes.

Its not a civic duty. Customizing them makes them even rarer as the number of uncustomized ones is reduced and people are shocked when they know you can say for example customize millions of golds worth of weapons without regretting it.

VOD? Victory or Death? I fail to see how that has anything to do with anything. Please address the issue here. You claim they are clearly 100% imbalanced. Therefore a top guild who plays to win and win $$$ for that matter would want any advantage possible to win. So please explain to me without giving bizarre and confusing answers why would they be selling all the ones they own including some of the best and rarest ones? Please bear in mind they DID use imbalanced items for example, HOD Axe. So if they dont have a problem using imbalanced items one can only assume if unconditional weapons were unbalanced they would use them.

Unconditional by definition is imbalanced you say. When I was pvping along while ago I was browsing various pvp forums and from what I could tell noone used one weapon alone. For example

Zealous 15>50 or 15-10al
Vamp 15>50 or 15-10al
Ebony (apparently its better than other elemental dmg) 15>50 or 15-10al

Owning one unconditional weapon therefore can really not cut it.

Anyway, im no expert on game mechanics and am going by what other people say.

O I am full of doo doo. This was covered in the last thread you claimed they are imbalanced. A pvper and a high lvl pvper, Yanman B (sorry to drag name into argument but this spazzer is not the most believing of people) stated they are inferior to normal weapons. That is just one pvper out of tons saying that. Ah yes, here we are. Doo doo you say.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

Keep in mind: Unconditional weapons are actually inferior to have a 15>50 and 20<50. You can have 20% damage if you're below 50%, but not with unconditonals.

I did quit GW for WoW but I didnt have time to level up due to real life commitments at the time. It was also kinda boring having so much gold yet not being able to spend it. The Epic weapons which were meant to be the rarest in the game had lvl requirements which started at around lvl 40. It kinda sucked I would have most probably had enough gold for an Epic mount which you can use at lvl 60 by the time I was lvl 30. Anyway, the auction house in WoW was the 1337sauce and makes trading in GW seem a complete joke.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risa

How about you people stop arguing about a few weapons that won't ever see play in PvP and start worrying more about the skill balance that's gonna happen in a few weeks. Because, let's face it, one imbalanced skill does a helluva lot more damage to the PvP world than a weapon that only works its wonders when you go under 50% health. And if you linger under 50% health and your monks aren't healing you back above it, you're dead anyways. And if you don't care about balance in PvP but more about people getting unfair stuff in PvE, you shouldn't be complaining about imba things, anyways. You already got your PvE skills.

People really need to take off their tinfoil hats and stop being so paranoid.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway. Everyone can agree long ago Anet removed everything imbalanced.

Stuff such as: -

HOD Bow
HOD Sword
HOD Axe
20% Rockmolder
40% Enchantment Axe / Cities of Ascalon Axe
15% FFS
Nolani Fire Wand

I have a huge list somewhere of even more items removed due to being imbalanced.

Now surely if and I say if because some people think they are imbalanced why has Anet not already removed them?

Maybe because they cannot.

Maybe because they are not imbalanced.

Maybe because they do not care.

Maybe because they believe them not to be a threat to PVP.

Anet changed all of the imbalanced HOD weapons yet decided to leave just one. The HOD Hammer. They could have easily altered it. This can only lead one to believe that Anet leave items / weapons alone which are not imbalanced. There are tons of weird items left in Guild Wars which have not been removed. Perhaps therefore that is why unconditional weapons have been left alone.

maraxusofk · Aug 06, 2007, 07:35 PM // 19:35

wow so many ppl completely misinterpret the thread. all im saying is that dont change EXISTING tyrian weaps. dont know why ppl are so intent on ruining 1 of the few uniquely rare items left in this game (stuff like tyrian crystalynes and unconditionals.

Nemo the Capitalist · Aug 06, 2007, 07:39 PM // 19:39

NF=NOOBified Heros inscribables making game too easy....i miss teh good old days of Tyria

Shuuda · Aug 06, 2007, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mindcrime

I'm amazed how the GW community seems more and more pathetic these days.

Even thought your right for the most part, calling folks pathetic over this issue is a bit much, I see nothing wrong with some people wanting more interchangable weapons, nor do I see a good reason why we cannot have both inscribitions and non inscribitions in a campain. The big money makers would still have their rare (if not rarer and worth more) Weapons for selling, but the folk that ain't in to that, can still get something.

Strangly enough, I'd pay more for a weapon with an inscribition, as I could change it if I need to. I guess it because I perfer using the weapon, rather than just selling it on.

Spazzer · Aug 06, 2007, 09:15 PM // 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Herbalizer

VOD? Victory or Death? I fail to see how that has anything to do with anything. Please address the issue here.

You brought up iQ, sister, not me. Maybe you should ask some of your pvp friends. :]

Quote:

You claim they are clearly 100% imbalanced.

Yes, and they are. You haven't explained why they are not.

Quote:

Unconditional by definition is imbalanced you say. When I was pvping along while ago I was browsing various pvp forums and from what I could tell noone used one weapon alone. For example

Zealous 15>50 or 15-10al
Vamp 15>50 or 15-10al
Ebony (apparently its better than other elemental dmg) 15>50 or 15-10al

Owning one unconditional weapon therefore can really not cut it.

Rarity has nothing to do with balance; when will you stop falling back on that?

Quote:

Anyway, im no expert on game mechanics and am going by what other people say.

Clearly. Your part in this is that you are afraid of losing a unique item.

Quote:

O I am full of doo doo. This was covered in the last thread you claimed they are imbalanced. A pvper and a high lvl pvper, Yanman B (sorry to drag name into argument but this spazzer is not the most believing of people) stated they are inferior to normal weapons. That is just one pvper out of tons saying that. Ah yes, here we are. Doo doo you say.

I'm seriously lolling right now.

Quote:

Anyway. Everyone can agree long ago Anet removed everything imbalanced.

Not yet. Hopefully, unconditionals will join the list below:

Quote:

HOD Bow
HOD Sword
HOD Axe
20% Rockmolder
40% Enchantment Axe / Cities of Ascalon Axe
15% FFS
Nolani Fire Wand

Actually, that 40% enchantment axe was the "Scavengers of Ascalon" axe. I had two. :] I was sad to see them go, but I didn't make any stories up about them not being imbalanced.

MSecorsky · Aug 06, 2007, 09:20 PM // 21:20

It's simple really. Anet will do what they will do or they won't do what they won't do. If they do do it, people will complain that they did it but will likely keep playing. If they don't do it, people will keep wondering if they will do it.

lyra_song · Aug 06, 2007, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

It's simple really. Anet will do what they will do or they won't do what they won't do. If they do do it, people will complain that they did it but will likely keep playing. If they don't do it, people will keep wondering if they will do it.

Not if, MSecorsky, when. When will Anet do it.

Some people seem to think that just because it hasnt happened, that its being ignored, its inconsequential, its trivial, and its pointless to change something that affects so few.

The fact is, its still there, and its still imbalanced.

Reminds me of when PvP characters didnt have the ability to craft multiple armor and armor swapping was prevalent. Just because it took so long to fix, doesnt mean it was never imbalanced.

lacasner · Aug 06, 2007, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyra Song

Not if, MSecorsky, when. When will Anet do it.

Some people seem to think that just because it hasnt happened, that its being ignored, its inconsequential, its trivial, and its pointless to change something that affects so few.

The fact is, its still there, and its still imbalanced.

Reminds me of when PvP characters didnt have the ability to craft multiple armor and armor swapping was prevalent. Just because it took so long to fix, doesnt mean it was never imbalanced.

Err.. i just have to point this out...

What are you trying to say?

Absinth187 · Aug 06, 2007, 10:28 PM // 22:28

Just like any business, Anet has a list of prioritized projects/implementations/fixes, etc. This list changes often, and they get to the items when they can.

Since unconditionals stopped dropping, what is the most obvious reason as to why? Anet didn't want them to drop anymore because they are imbalanced in their eyes. Now they may never get around to taking them out of the game due to more pressing matters, but there is definitely a precedent in place that should lead you to not be surprised if they did.

Life isn't fair, so I'm not sure why the fairness of it keeps coming up as an argument. In this case, you are at the whim of Anet's vision of what GW is and should be.

Dr Strangelove · Aug 06, 2007, 11:16 PM // 23:16

Unconditionals are imbalanced. They're not insanely imbalanced, nor are there many of them, but they're imbalanced. Don't be surprised if they get fixed. They're somewhat low priority, but all this crap about how they're rare and not that good is stupid. They're not widely available, and they provide a better damage mod than anything else. That being said, I don't really care about them.

Sorry for singling out your posts, snow bunny, but they're succinct and well written, thus easier to argue with

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Look, if Herb has the means and drive to collect and hoard various expensive weapons then let it be. Stop complaining about "elitism"...these "elitists" started out on the EXACT footing you did.

Herb is rich. Awesomely rich. Perhaps the richest player in the game. It's an incredible accomplishment, and I respect that. what I don't get is the "I got mine, now you can't have yours" argument. All the crap he's saying about FoW and 1 million gold being easy to get is exactly that-crap. If it was, no one would have a shred of respect for herb because cash would be easy to get. Enough of this "help, I'm rich and I'm being oppressed" foolishness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

There's also been no good reason to implement inscriptions on existing tyrian weapons.

No, there's really not. On the other hand, there's no reason to not make them inscribable. Yes, those perfect 15>50 fellblades will feel less valuable if they become inscribable, but they'll be more flexible and useful. If you're customizing your weapons (which you should be), why should you really care? The price of the weapon would decrease, but the value of it would increase, meaning that your weapon can do more than it used to. However, if it makes people happier to have worse items if they have the illusion of costliness, knock yourselves out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

There's no reason to implement the inscription system, mainly because it gives a deserved value to perfect tyrian weapons.

If there's no reason to implement the inscription system, why was it implemented in the first place? Why should tyrian weapons have a terrible system for weapons when elona has a good one? Nothing about tyrian skins makes them "deserve a value", it's the same game, often with the same recycled skins.

Look, when it comes down to it, the only reason to be opposed to inscriptions in Tyria in Cantha is a desire to make things harder to get. That's fine, everyone likes a challenge and the fun of the lottery and whatnot. Quit clinging to an arbitrary system where one mod on some weapons is special and unchangeable, and shields, foci, and wands are completely unchangeable. It really makes no sense. If you want rare stuff, just say "I'm fine with inscriptions in Tyria, as long as the number of drops is cut tenfold to compensate, thus preserving the current amount of grind".

Personally, I think grind kinda sucks, so I'd rather not decrease the number of drops, but hey, I'm just one guy. Honestly though, enough of the strawman arguments, rationalizations, and outright lies. They really are transparent, and they depress the crap out of me when people try to have real conversations.

Off topic, why do white items even exist? Does anyone actually use them as weapons? Wouldn't it just be easier for everyone to have them drop directly as little piles of gold, since that's what they mean to everyone anyway?

Stormlord Alex · Aug 06, 2007, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Off topic, why do white items even exist? Does anyone actually use them as weapons? Wouldn't it just be easier for everyone to have them drop directly as little piles of gold, since that's what they mean to everyone anyway?

Umm...
Uh...

Salvage fodder?
Hero fodder?

uh...
um...

Oh! They may well be little piles of gold... But it's your gold!

... That's the best I could think of ^_^

Coridan · Aug 06, 2007, 11:32 PM // 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Off topic, why do white items even exist? Does anyone actually use them as weapons? Wouldn't it just be easier for everyone to have them drop directly as little piles of gold, since that's what they mean to everyone anyway?

Only positive about white items is the fact that you don't need to split the gold with henchies/heros/anyoneelseintheparty

pork soldier · Aug 06, 2007, 11:45 PM // 23:45

I read this topic and I lol'd.

sixdartbart · Aug 07, 2007, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Please Anet stop banning the gold farmers.
The Trolls are getting overpopulated!

@Strangelove;
You asked why the inscription system was implemented in the first place.

The answer is that just like this thread several vocal forumers started demanding that type of a system be put in place to "make things fair" regardless of the fact that everyone already had access to collectors/crafters/greens for max damage weapons but they didn't like the looks of them and in the same breath they would say it's a "need" not vanity and all of the players who actually enjoyed collecting rare items could all go to hell.

There were a few of us who tried to point out the downsides of such a system {too long of a list to cover here and not nearly enough interest either

} that were all labeled "Elitists" and disregarded as just selfish bastards while the exact opposite was true. "When accused of hate, stupidity, racism, intolerance, etc., look first to the accuser. You’ll usually find those very attributes there."

Most if not all of the longer term effects of such a system turned out to be exactly as we predicted including this thread of future demands by the "unselfish caring people who just want everything for someone else not themselves"

Not sure why I stopped by the GW forums again but it's good to see some things never change.

http://www.epsilonteam.org/?site=1&mainp=1.com
84 days sure seems like a long time.

Hyper Cutter · Aug 07, 2007, 12:03 AM // 00:03

While they're at it, they need to apply wand, shield, and focus mods to Tyria and Cantha also...

Malice Black · Aug 07, 2007, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Quote:

QFT. If you weren't taking it seriously, why have I not seen a page in SEVEN without your name on it? Most twice or more? Anyone moderating Ventari's?

Ah, I forgot, being a mod entitles me to no opinion correct? and I must spend all my time in Ventari's writing up user notes for the same people for the same violations? nah, I'd die of boredom. This thread interests me, so I will continue to post until I grow tired of it. That ok with you?

Spazzer (nice name, pet name perhaps

)

I still don't understand your infatuation with 'balance', explain..

As far as I'm concern, Anets love of balance killed PvE.

The Herbalizer · Aug 07, 2007, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyper Cutter

While they're at it, they need to apply wand, shield, and focus mods to Tyria and Cantha also...

and sort out the r7 shield issue as pvp monks with war secondary are able to put 7 points into tactics without it affecting their build thus allowing them to reap the full benefits of the shield. im not sure if this is still the case but it was not long ago. i believe perfect r7 shields sell for around 150-200e or so with nasty skins. now that is a problem which for pvpers is more serious than unconditionals which are not used by pvpers unlike the r7 shields which a load of pvpers were using and from guilds such as team quitter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

Ah, I forgot, being a mod entitles me to no opinion correct? and I must spend all my time in Ventari's writing up user notes for the same people for the same violations? nah, I'd die of boredom. This thread interests me, so I will continue to post until I grow tired of it. That ok with you?

Spazzer (nice name, pet name perhaps

)

I still don't understand your infatuation with 'balance', explain..

As far as I'm concern, Anets love of balance killed PvE.

Chances are spazzer wont. Just like he has failed to address why the hell a top gvg guild sold all of these supposedly imbalanced items. It would be like a racing team selling off a part which increases the power of their engine slightly... It really does not make sense.

ShadowsRequiem · Aug 07, 2007, 12:30 AM // 00:30

Leave it how it is. Unconditional weapons are hardly imbalanced. when you pve does dmg really matter that much? no it doesnt. When you PVP your health is almost always over 50%
These are just very rare, they dont give you godly attributes... leave them be.

if you do make tyrian stuff inscriptable, more 15^50 crystallines and dwarvens for me