Curse

Plague · Aug 08, 2007, 04:27 AM // 04:27

This may not be the right place for this. My actual question is at the bottom, so skip ahead if you want.

I've played through Nightfall about six times now. I'm pretty sick of it. Can you blame me? It would be nice just to have to play it once, then move all my characters through at a whim, but... that's not how it works. Anyway, just covering that first.

In Prophecies, it was possible to bypass missions, and the storyline, by running through zones to new areas. My favorite example is the Droknar Run. I remember creating my Ranger and taking her from Ascalon, at level 1, through the Shiverpeaks, to Thunderhead Keep. I didn't have a guild at the time, so I got stuck there for a while. I eventually beat THK at level 13 with henchmen. This was before heroes, so it was a big pain, but still worth it to bypass a storyline I'd played through literally eight times before. (And five more times since.) I actually believe my Ranger still hasn't done the Maguuma missions. And she won't ever, if I have anything to say about it... I hate Maguuma.

Anyway, with Factions there came linear progression. You could run ahead but it got you nowhere since paths were locked off with missions. It was fairly annoying, having been used to being able to just walk around the parts of the game I hated to experience. But it kept people from being scammed by runners, I suppose.

Now we have Nightfall. In Nightfall, you can circumvent a lot of places, and even reach missions ahead of time, but you can't play them. My least favorite example is when I was trying to capture Savannah Heat on my PvE Elementalist. I ran to the Desolation, but found that I couldn't get to the boss on the other side of the map due to the deadly sands. (You require a plot device to traverse the sands.) So, staring out across those sands, nearly literally looking at the boss I wished to kill wave to me from afar, I was forced to go back and play through every Nightfall mission up to that point. One and a half months later (I have other characters to play, so that didn't help my time), I finally earned the right to cross the sands, and kill the boss and capture Savannah Heat. If it were Prophecies... I could have just walked around this mission somehow, capped my elite, and gone about my day.

Anyway, I just wanted to paint you a picture there. My question is: is it possible to play a Nightfall mission you ran to without having completed the prerequisites?

I ask because earlier, as I moved my new PvE Paragon out of Istani, I came upon a player that somehow did this. I was with a level 19 Elementalist, and the joining player was a level 20 Elementalist. I didn't notice their chapter origin; probably should have looked. But, the level 20 Elementalist gave our party level (the level 19) the error message that so-and-so can't progress. The party leader said "just add a hero." The level 20 Ele added Koss, and suddenly we were off. The other part of my question is, how'd that happen? Is it specific to Consulate Docks, or can you really just equip a hero and move on in some missions?

Any way of skipping certain parts of Nightfall would be appreciated, as I've beaten it over, and over, and over. And over. It's a very long chapter, and very tiring. I don't enjoy playing it anymore. I just want to use my PvE Paragon to swiftly unlock all the Paragon skills, so that I can create a PvP Paragon whenever I so choose. That's all. My actual goal right now is to skip about five hours of missions and quests to capture Focused Anger, so I can at least attempt to enjoy the coming onslaught of boredom.

Government Flu · Aug 08, 2007, 05:27 AM // 05:27

Hmm.

I still whisper a lot of people that it's not possible to get a run to Senjii's Corner every now and again...guess the locked gates still haven't sunk in. Since this is an RPG we're talking about here, there generally aren't many shortcuts, as a new character should always be a commitment tied in to many hours.

If your current goal is to create a PvP Paragon, then I suggest creating a starter paragon, getting a few basic skills since they're so cheap, and then unlocking them using your more accomplished characters by either paying 1k per skill or buying some regular tomes.

Or, just PvP with other characters and unlock paragon skills. That's a great way to go too. You can also farm, I believe, 2,000 Balthazar points per day fighting against the AI, so use that too.

VitisVinifera · Aug 08, 2007, 06:03 AM // 06:03

it's an inherent weakness in game design. Add new titles, new classes and slots for them, and you wind up playing through each title with each character to get the end content/skills/items/what have you, that you want

there's no easy, elegant fix for this within the current game mechanics. it is what it is.

Plague · Aug 08, 2007, 06:46 AM // 06:46

I actually already farm balthazar faction for the mesmer, ritualist and assassin professions. I may end up simply unlocking what little I can at Haven and then deleting the character. There aren't that many Paragon skills anyway, plus I'm nearly finished unlocking every other skill in the game.

It's not as though I can make a worthwhile Paragon build anyway. Looked through the entire list tonight to see what I was missing, and found I couldn't make a single build I thought I'd enjoy. Hopefully the Paragon will be more useful and have less noobish skills come GWEN.

upier · Aug 08, 2007, 07:54 AM // 07:54

Although I am a huge Factions fan - the locked doors were one of the most idiotic things that they came up with.
C1 gave us the freedom to skip parts of the story or areas - BUT with the free-skill quests one still had the initiative to go back and do them at a later time! Now in Factions and C3 - if I had skipped something - unless I'd want a title I would never ever come near it again!
ANd it's not just the doors. You have the 10k faction quest and the required Sunspear rank (I am just glad they saw how insanely idiotic it is and they removed it for foreign chars!) that also holds you back.

I seriously try to think why a developer that creates this HUGE open world - would decide to shut it's doors and force players to play ONE SPECIFIC way!

But then again - this system doesn't really hurt the game that much ... unless the game itself sucks.
Sure I'd LOVE to ran through Factions faster - but I like the game so I can live with it!
C3 on the other hand though .... :shudders:

Toutatis · Aug 08, 2007, 08:46 AM // 08:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plague

Anyway, I just wanted to paint you a picture there. My question is: is it possible to play a Nightfall mission you ran to without having completed the prerequisites?

To the best of my knowledge at this point, this isn't possible. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Although, I quite like the way that Factions and Nightfall have been set up. Yes, it is fun to move into new areas to get access to new skills, better loot and flashier armor options. But to me, it's less fun if I can do all that immediately without having to work for it (even if it means putting up with bits of storyline that I've already been through gods know how many times with other characters).

Curse You · Aug 08, 2007, 10:19 AM // 10:19

The only mission I know of that you don't have to do the pre-requisites for is Moddok Crevice.

However, in order to do this you first have to get a run to Vabbi, then go backwards to Wehhan Terraces, then run through Bahdok Caverns to Moddok Crevice. After all this, you then have to get up to either Rilohn Refuge or Pogahn Passage. At that point you'll be able to do Moddok Crevice, and thus bypass Rilohn Refuge and Pogahn Passage.

Yea, it's a pretty bad way of skipping, considering it takes basically twice the work.

MithranArkanere · Aug 08, 2007, 10:58 AM // 10:58

I would agree with being able to slip to almost anywhere in the game, but never to skip the story.

For example, in Tyria, there should be boat trips to Crystal Desert and Ring of Fire without having to make missions, so you could get to anywhere without making a single mission or quest...

...but you should not be able to make any single mission or quests without making the previous in the timeline. For example, not being able to make Fort Ranik until making the Great Northern wall unless you are from outside Tyria. And never being able to make Sanctum Cay without making before Riverside Province.

Since you'll be able to get there anyways, people won't have to make Snactum Cay to get to Crystal desert, but they will never be able to ascend unless they make the story missions.

That is, making story and exploration more separate.

And well... I've unlocked all skills, and My paragon barely reached Venta Cementary. I unloecked the skills by faction and skill-purchasing with a main character.

neighto · Aug 08, 2007, 11:56 AM // 11:56

pvp to earn faction.. unlock skills, both elite and non elite at priest of balthazar.
then you simply go to kamadan to buy the non elites.. and use a tome to buy the elite.. thats how i unlocked all my elites on my paragon at lvl 5 or so.

the other option is to take one of your toons who has completed the game.. change his/her second to para and unlock that way.. if you are unlocking for pvp then you will have them there when you make a Pvp toon

SpeedyKQ · Aug 08, 2007, 02:06 PM // 14:06

Change one of your existing characters to paragon secondary, cap the elite, problem solved?

(Edit: yeah, neighto just said this. I'm a lousy skimmer.)

I did this just last night to get a couple elites for my various Morgahns, since I don't have a paragon primary either.

Achilles Antony · Aug 08, 2007, 05:12 PM // 17:12

It really would be nice if they only "forced" you to do the missions on the first time through the game with a character. Every character after that should have the missions unlocked so you can get anywhere in the game. If they want to make it so you can only advance with other characters if your first character completed the mission masters, hey, that's ok too. That way it wouldn't be too easy.

I too am sick of getting my characters through both Nightfall and Factions, and find myself spending most of my time in Tyria as it is less frustrating. I still have to go through each chapter with several characters, and while I really want to, I am sick of playing many of the missions and my characters seem to sit there doing nothing until I can finally bring myself to play these missions. I feel your pain... I have since the release of Factions.

Plague · Aug 08, 2007, 05:55 PM // 17:55

I deleted my Paragon last night after using all her skill points. I wanted to use a primary since you can usually unlock basic skills a little faster at first than with Balth or a secondary. (That used to be true anyway.) I also didn't want to eat up more cash than necessary, since new characters don't have to pay 1k a skill. My Paragon wasn't going to see a new skill trainer until Kodash (hours upon hours away) and she had just hit the 1k limit, so at this point, she would've just been dead weight.

Wispir · Aug 08, 2007, 06:03 PM // 18:03

I'm betting the actual error was that it was a mission that requires Koss to be in the party. Not that somone did not meet the prerequisites, not counting the Koss prerequisite

Shiishii Momo · Aug 08, 2007, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wispir

I'm betting the actual error was that it was a mission that requires Koss to be in the party. Not that somone did not meet the prerequisites, not counting the Koss prerequisite

^^^ Exactly what I was going to say, the consulate docks mission requires that your party has Koss in it, since ***spoiler alert*** he gets taken away during that mission. The only NF progression stops that I am aware of are those which require you to have a specific hero unlocked for a mission, or that you must know how to use the Juhundu worms.

dr_ishmael · Aug 08, 2007, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiishii Momo

^^^ Exactly what I was going to say, the consulate docks mission requires that your party has Koss in it, since ***spoiler alert*** he gets taken away during that mission. The only NF progression stops that I am aware of are those which require you to have a specific hero unlocked for a mission, or that you must know how to use the Juhundu worms.

Incorrect - Consulate Docks requires Dunkoro, not Koss. I did it just last night with him, Melonni, and Sousuke as my heroes.

Antithesis · Aug 08, 2007, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plague

I just want to use my PvE Paragon to swiftly unlock all the Paragon skills, so that I can create a PvP Paragon whenever I so choose. That's all.

The quickest way to do it is to buy the Nightfall PvP skills pack and add it to your account. If your sole purpose for the Para is PvP, your problem is solved.

If you want to PvE with the Para this will unlock all standard skills for PvE (buy from any skills trainer) and allow you to use Elite Tomes to grab your elites instead of capping from bosses. Also unlocks all skills including elites for Heroes. You still need some gold to purchase skills and elite tomes, but it's pretty easy to farm certain bosses for their's (eg Byzzr Wingmender) and trade them for Para tomes.