Curse

Lonesamurai · Aug 02, 2007, 12:49 PM // 12:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackie

And where would the resources to add free content come from? Less bought accounts less money. Marketing takes lot of money but doing it well will net you all the lost money back with few extra 0000 behind the cheque.

thing is, for ANet, money actually isn't an option, nor is marketting, as both are looked after by NCSoft

Rocky Raccoon · Aug 02, 2007, 12:50 PM // 12:50

While the OP may be valid, I wonder (other than a core group of Pvp players) how many GW players really care about the original premise.

Lonesamurai · Aug 02, 2007, 12:55 PM // 12:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

While the OP may be valid, I wonder (other than a core group of Pvp players) how many GW players really care about the original premise.

most of the beta vets like me that still play actually, especially as some of us have gone to great lengths to market the game, for nothing i might add

hyro yamaguchi · Aug 02, 2007, 01:01 PM // 13:01

Fury looks like a nice game, I'll be spending the weekend in the open Beta.

jackie · Aug 02, 2007, 01:17 PM // 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

thing is, for ANet, money actually isn't an option, nor is marketting, as both are looked after by NCSoft

True.

But that doesn't mean Anet has to keep low profile and let NCSoft pull the strings. If they don't get active marketing support from NC, I'm quite positive that there are more than few big publishers out there willing to support them properly, GW is too big name to have such a passive marketing.

the_jos · Aug 02, 2007, 01:20 PM // 13:20

Quote:

While the OP may be valid, I wonder (other than a core group of Pvp players) how many GW players really care about the original premise.

Probably not that much and that's part of the problem.
I have this nice box here in front of me that states 'Ascend as a team to the highest levels of competion, a truly global tournament to control the Hall of Heroes. World fame awaits the victors'.

Well, that might be true a long time ago, but now those victors are not famed, but are bugged by a lot of PvE players whining their skills got nerfed and PvP changes should not dominate PvE that much.

lyra_song · Aug 02, 2007, 01:24 PM // 13:24

Well of course Fury will have an easier time getting into CPL, it doesnt even really have a PvE. Its completely PVP. Its more focused and therefore more easily handled.

It Guild Wars was to seperate the PvP system (ie: All PvP skills are seperate, all PvP characters and PvE chars in PvP were equal in weaponry and skill access) then it would be more viable as a pure pvp game.

Lack of support for third party tournaments is imo, a problem with priority.

With players clamoring for updates and bug fixes and whining about everything else, plus new expansions and a sequel, focusing on CPL seems irrelevant to me.

The OP is basically saying this:

but really...whats your point?

Shadis · Aug 02, 2007, 01:29 PM // 13:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

most of the beta vets like me that still play actually, especially as some of us have gone to great lengths to market the game, for nothing i might add

Truth here. Sadly most of the people left over from Betas either left completely or gave up the dream of what Guild Wars could've been long ago. I'm in the "gave up the dream" boat. Still play, casual PvP and PvE. Looking into this Fury thing lately though.

Hearing about what lies ahead for Guild Wars 2 is pretty much the final nail in the coffin for the ideals of the game we were sold on.

hyro yamaguchi · Aug 02, 2007, 01:30 PM // 13:30

You can't possibly state that the succes of WoW is all due its huge marketing budget; the warcraft serie had millions of fans before WoW was released. Guildwars on the other hand was a new game; thus no people who knew they were going to buy it even before they heard what it would going to be.

But Guildwars just doesn't have the own style that WoW has. The graphics look like most other MMORPGs.

You could feel that this is irrelevant. But I really think it isn't.
If you want to promote a new game, you don't just throw in a couple of millions, have some ads and *BAM* huge sales.

No, there must be a reason why people would want to choose your game. And the only reason Guildwars had, for people who hadn't played it yet, was that it had no monthly fee. There just never was that 'I've got to have this game' feeling that WoW did have.

If Anet would have wanted to sell GW properly, they should have given it an own feeling, from the outside. But instead they focussed on the inside. Which is offcourse absolutely wonderfull! But a mistake in terms of marketing.

crucifix · Aug 02, 2007, 01:30 PM // 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackie

True.

But that doesn't mean Anet has to keep low profile and let NCSoft pull the strings. If they don't get active marketing support from NC, I'm quite positive that there are more than few big publishers out there willing to support them properly, GW is too big name to have such a passive marketing.

I have a theory as to why guildwars has been going down the shitter recently. My guess is the reallocation of company resources.
I agree that Gaile sucks pretty hard at her job; it is her responsibility to be a good PR rep, not to be buddy buddy with all of the pve players who dont really drive the original market of the game. you cant have a competitive online role-playing game without a valid, and closely monitored form of PvP.
Now then, about those resources. We are seeing almost a mockup of blizzard entertainment here. Ill use the diablo series in relation to WoW for this. In diablo (the original) the servers were left on unsupported for quite some time before the release of diablo II. This was more or less their way of staling the user base. As soon as d2 was released, the d1 crowd almost completely shifted to the sequel, because of the horribly stale gameplay that they had grown accustomed to. D2 did the exact same thing right after the announcement of WoW (any of my old d2 players know exactly what im talking about). The economy went to shit, dupes rampaged the servers (they still do) and the game was/ has been/ still is left to die. Right now, the devs at anet are working on getting GW:EN ready along with GW2, which they have another year to complete and release. Its crunch time at anet, so my bet is that we won't be seeing any major content updates for quite some time, if ever again after EN gets its fix. (which it will, there is no such thing as a flawless release)

Kakumei · Aug 02, 2007, 01:31 PM // 13:31

It's too bad Fury is a terrible game or this might mean something.

glountz · Aug 02, 2007, 01:42 PM // 13:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

While the OP may be valid, I wonder (other than a core group of Pvp players) how many GW players really care about the original premise.

I do really care. But I'm caring less and less.
GW isn't anymore the game I bought. And, having a job and money, I really don't care about monthly fees. So the "non-monthly fee" is not what made me buy this game. Having limited time, it is more the skill over time spent credo that was interesting for me.
Well, was is quite the correct verb. PvP is almost dead. Hero battles are given ladder while TA dies. Heroes Ascent has become heroway ascent, and GvG has gotten less and less interesting through game imbalances.
The new GW PVE has been given Mallyx and DoA, the old GW the Sorrow Furnace. You see what I mean.

LifeInfusion · Aug 02, 2007, 01:44 PM // 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackie

If they don't get active marketing support from NC, I'm quite positive that there are more than few big publishers out there willing to support them properly, GW is too big name to have such a passive marketing.

They hired Chris Lye as a marketing director. I'm not sure about when he was hired, but I suspect it was around the time GW2 was announced since that is when his name started appearing in the interview things over at IGN.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Well of course Fury will have an easier time getting into CPL, it doesnt even really have a PvE. Its completely PVP. Its more focused and therefore more easily handled.

That is definitely true. A large mass of players play a mix of PvE and PvP instead of just PvP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hyro yamaguchi

And the only reason Guildwars had, for people who hadn't played it yet, was that it had no monthly fee.

That's pretty shallow. If a game is crap and has no fee whatsoever, even for the box, nobody is going to bother playing it.
================================================== =======
Everyone keeps on wailing about Gaile since the beginning. I really feel bad for her. She tells you people the news and you shoot the messenger.

Its less than a month before GW:EN comes out, you cannot expect them to pay attention to all your complaints. It's only roughly a hundred people on the team. It's not like Blizzard, which has a staff of hundreds just for GMs.

Fury will probably be a good game. It will not, however, replace Guild Wars. Guild Wars was all about the marriage of casual PvE (unlike grindfests) and PvP. Note that is why we have Alliance battles.

Fury is about 24/7 PvP action.

We may lose some hardcore PvP players, but not a critical mass of players. Besides, who is to say you cannot play both?

Jetdoc · Aug 02, 2007, 01:48 PM // 13:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by hyro yamaguchi

Fury looks like a nice game, I'll be spending the weekend in the open Beta.

I agree...although the feature of the game I am the most wary about is...

"As you advance you gain rank (there are 10 total), which allows you more equip points for the incarnation you’ll take into battle. This means, more or better skills, spells, etc."

That sounds like you get actual in game advantages based on the amount that you play (or at least win). That's not too great.

lyra_song · Aug 02, 2007, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Fury is basically this:

Spawn....Veteran kills you....you die....respawn.

The end.

hyro yamaguchi · Aug 02, 2007, 01:58 PM // 13:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

That's pretty shallow. If a game is crap and has no fee whatsoever, even for the box, nobody is going to bother playing it.

Well, shitty games get sold a lot as well, but your argument is partially valid.

Nonethless, most people won't know how shitty or great a game is untill they have played it.
So your game needs something extra, if you want it to be a big hit. And in the case of Guildwars this was the no-monthly fee.

But otherwise than that it didn't have too much to stand on in order to ensure massive sales. Nonetheless they did a great job. I really think that they went for the more hardcore gamers, instead of focussing on the masses. It's just unfair to blame them for making that choice and thusly getting less attention from the mass.

Rocky Raccoon · Aug 02, 2007, 01:59 PM // 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

I do really care. But I'm caring less and less.
GW isn't anymore the game I bought. And, having a job and money, I really don't care about monthly fees. So the "non-monthly fee" is not what made me buy this game. Having limited time, it is more the skill over time spent credo that was interesting for me.
Well, was is quite the correct verb. PvP is almost dead. Hero battles are given ladder while TA dies. Heroes Ascent has become heroway ascent, and GvG has gotten less and less interesting through game imbalances.
The new GW PVE has been given Mallyx and DoA, the old GW the Sorrow Furnace. You see what I mean.

Could it be that the game has evolved into something different than originally intended and the devs are just adjusting to what thay see is the general trend.They can see all of the stats behind the game and know how people are playing. It might just be that a majority of players like the way the game is headed, but they are the silent majority. People forget that most who play GW never even look at a forum. just we the addicted.

lyra_song · Aug 02, 2007, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

Could it be that the game has evolved into something different than originally intended and the devs are just adjusting to what thay see is the general trend.They can see all of the stats behind the game and know how people are playing. It might just be that a majority of players like the way the game is headed, but they are the silent majority. People forget that most who play GW never even look at a forum. just we the addicted.

This really is it. There was the intended market and the actual market. People are supposed to play BOTH PvE and PvP. Instead you get players who dislike one or the other.

Anet tries to cater to everyone. Casual, Hardcore, Elite. PvE and PvP.

The game has changed, if you obviously cannot tell.

Factions tried to continue the trend of PvE AND PvP, but guess what? PvErs HATED the PvP aspect.

Nightfall brought heroes and PvE skills to make PvErs happy. Guess what? PvPers HATE what heroes have done (look at the state of HA) and the general lack of new PvP from nightfall, not to mention the power creep.

Wildi · Aug 02, 2007, 02:08 PM // 14:08

Fury will do the same mistakes anet did. Smart people learn from other people's mistakes. Fury devs will learn from their own.

Etta · Aug 02, 2007, 02:12 PM // 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

Could it be that the game has evolved into something different than originally intended and the devs are just adjusting to what thay see is the general trend.

Yeah I agree, in the begining it was like what? Learn the basic of the game in pve, then move on to the highly competitive pvp. As more and more people play the game and presumebly they prefer the pve side of thing, that's when the game changed its direction. Then the hardcore pvper moved on and the game became a lot easier to pick up and play for the majority. So this is what we end up with.

And what's this got to do with Gaile? She's a PR not Ad or Marketing.