Curse

Omniclasm · Aug 09, 2007, 11:31 AM // 11:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

There's Nothing to Fear alone makes Paragons pretty much 1 of the best PVE classes... though it can be run as secondary and chained which actually makes it a bit stronger offering the equivelant of a heal party quite often. It's the best skill in the game right now, the monk skill Seed of Life is pretty retarded too but it doesn't compare to this.

Their DPS is only really matched by warriors, that goes for PVE and PVP. And their Leadership and Motivation line is generally very solid... Command isn't quite as good imo... There's quite a few more than 12 - 13 viable skills.

Off the top of my head - in some sort of random order of what is probably the more stapble skills on paragon bars i like

TNTF <- obviously
Aggresive Refrain, Go For The Eyes, Spear of Lightning, Merciless Spear
Defensive Anthem, Lyrics of Zeal, Aria of Zeal, Finale of Restoration, Song of Restoration, Chorus of Restoration, Mending Refrain, Angelic Bond, Sig Return, Anthem of Flame, Signet of Synergy, Focussed Anger, Wild Throw, Remedy Signet...

Obviously some of them skills are more useful than others... Lyrics and Aria of Zeal are just amazing - and just give very good Energy Management to your party. And I've probably missed some off the list... that was top of my head.

Paragons can singlehandedly make life very easy

Lyric of Zeal and Chorus of Restoration can be taken off, as I already said, they require your team to be built around you.
Joining a team and telling everyone to take a signet and to use that signet when they see Lyric of Zeal is not going to work.
Chorus of Restoration only works on Paragons, maybe Warriors, so again the team has to be built around it.
Aria of Zeal is kind of iffy I think since it's nerf. Giving 5 energy every 22 seconds is only .22 energy per second, or .66 pips of energy regeneration to 4-5 people. Barely noticeable.
Defensive Anthem is inferior to Aegis in PvE. In PvP it cannot be removed, which gives it an edge, but in PvE Aegis is rarely removed anyway.

I don't see why everyone likes Merciless Spear, it has no +damage, and only has any effect if they are below 50%. Not worth it in PvE IMO. Blazing Spear should be added to that list, but I was really meaning non-spear skills, since the spear skills can't really go wrong.

I don't like the fact that most of the skills will only effect 3-4 party members, which make them weak, but if the team is built around it, then it will effect 8 people and become overpowered. I would like it if they would always effect everyone, but had their effectiveness toned down a notch to compensate. That is why Paragons are/were overpowered in PvP. They can take Chorus of Restoration in a team of 8 Paragons, and it owns. Taking Chorus of Restoration in a normal team, it will effect 1-2 maybe 3 people and is horribly underpowered.

Curse You · Aug 09, 2007, 11:59 AM // 11:59

It should be noted that when analyzing a profession, PvE skills are totally irrelevant. They're no where near an accurate representation of the rest of the profession's skills. "There's Nothing to Fear!" is probably better than almost every paragon skill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plague

This, however, is all speculation. Eye of the North may bring with it, new skills that will make Paragons less of a niche profession and more widely available to players to analyze - even players that do not play in high-end 8v8 PvP.

Look for yourself.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/List_...e_North_skills

yesitsrob · Aug 09, 2007, 12:05 PM // 12:05

You can build around paragons in PVE too, no one is stopping you... unless you are talking entirely about pugging. Which is the absolute worse way to determine the strength of a class.

It's the equivelent of using Fort Aspenwood to test Flag Running builds.

Omniclasm · Aug 09, 2007, 12:24 PM // 12:24

If I go to UW or FoW with guildies, I can guarantee you that all 7 of them will not be wanting me to tell them to take signets and shouts, and most of them will not even be able to take signets and shouts. Is it really worth everyone changing their builds so that one of my skills is more effective? That is kind of the problem.
In PvP, people don't care as long as they win.
In PvE people will at least want to run builds they are familiar with and and enjoy Most people will not want to change half of their skill bar just so that the Paragon has somewhat effective skills.

Neo-LD · Aug 09, 2007, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Um, yah. Paragons are not underpowered or misunderstood.

They are units that deal a warrior's damage at range, have incredible armor, and provide unremovable, spammable, party-wide offensive and defensive buffs.

Sounds fair, right?

Omniclasm · Aug 09, 2007, 02:19 PM // 14:19

By no stretch am I saying they suck, they just need more options.

Frank Dudenstein · Aug 09, 2007, 06:06 PM // 18:06

Paragons are weak???? You must be on crack .. they are STILL overpowered if anything....

1. They are one of the only professions in GW that can provide significant pressure without using a single skill ... just c-space and you have pressure. Why waste your bar on attack skills when you can apply pressure and still do lots of other helpful things at the same time (ok 1-2 attack skills are pretty nice gravy). Oh and don't forget they are the only profession in the game that gets perma-IAS for a one-time cost.

2. GFTE + Anthem of Flame adds ALOT pressure to any physical-based team ... and they net you a huge amount of energy at the same time!!!!

3. They have some of the easiest-to-apply deep wound attacks in the game making them spiking machines.

4. While most of their defensive buffs have been nerfed to oblivion (and rightfully so) they still have some that are very good (defensive anthem, insane synergy with watch yourself, etc)

5. They provide close to warrior level pressure at range AND provide non-strippable defensive buffs at the same time all while being the hardest character to kill!!!

I appreciate the analysis .. it's just your conclusion that is off .. it should say "Paragons may still be overpowered play them while you can before the nerf stick comes...."