Curse

Age · Aug 10, 2007, 04:11 AM // 04:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Loki-

I don't need to watch you monk. If you think Aegis is needed to take on Shiro, you are a bad monk.

Aegis is bad in PvE simply because enemies don't do enough damage to warrant using it (again, at least, outside of elite missions). Henchmen use it right? Henchmen will use Aegis when you start fighting an enemy. If you are still fighting that enemy when it recharges, they sue it again. That's it. There's no strategic use. They just use it when they encounter a mob. Again, if you think that's 'smart use', then you suck at monking.

Way to miss the joke. GG.

I never used it to take Shiro only moving around the shrines so I wouldn't have to stop and cast reversal.If you think I suck at Monking then go tell Kuntz that because everything I learned I got it from watching him when he was with TE.I can say right now the most of the Monks that play pvp won't be using Aegis after this give it a week or month and Aegis won't be used in pvp again.The skill will be up there with protective bond and using it was why I was called Kick A$$ Monk and those player wanted me in their guilds.How do you know anything about the effect of Aegis if you never used it.You should know better as well by posting a pic like considering you are a GW Moderator.I don't post stuff like that on the board I am JR Admin. on.You don't see any other TGH Moderators do that do you.

Ensign · Aug 10, 2007, 04:20 AM // 04:20

Just to make sure, the die-hard Rit players are threatening the quit the game because of the exhaustion put onto Ancestor's Rage, correct? That's the only real PvE nerf to Rits in this update as far as I can tell. Wielder's Strike has never been a critical PvE skill as far as I know, Splinter Weapon is effectively unchanged if you're using it immediately; you get more raw DPS out of Spirit Burn now, and Spirit Rift is slowed down only slightly in PvE, where time is on your side.

On the spirit side of things, the exhaustion on spirits is a net buff overall. Most of those cost 25 before, now they're dirt cheap for their effects and take up exhaustion that shouldn't matter at all. Sure you lose out on combinations of a couple of those spirits but were those really the backbones of your build? All of the spirits updated were pretty marginal before, but I'd feel compelled to run at least one of them now with the updated stats.

So, to be clear, you're threatening to uninstall because Spirit Rift is a little less ridiculous and you can't spam Ancestor's Rage anymore?

Avarre · Aug 10, 2007, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom Gun

Are you saying that a rit spike couldn't be countered? I saw it happen. Although it wasn't in GvG. It was a 3 way match. They were the first to lose. I'm not a hardcore pvper, I mainly play in FA, RA, and sometimes TA and AB, but I do observe a lot of games. Rits didn't need this. I think not enough people wanted to put forth the effort to counter this, hence the nerf that went a little to overboard.

and yes rob, it could.

Counterable is not the same as balanced. Welcome to Guild Wars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I never used it to take Shiro only moving around the shrines so I wouldn't have to stop and cast reversal.If you think I suck at Monking then go tell Kuntz that because everything I learned I got it from watching him when he was with TE.I can say right now the most of the Monks that play pvp won't be using Aegis after this give it a week or month and Aegis won't be used in pvp again.The skill will be up there with protective bond and using it was why I was called Kick A$$ Monk and those player wanted me in their guilds.How do you know anything about the effect of Aegis if you never used it.You should know better as well by posting a pic like considering you are a GW Moderator.I don't post stuff like that on the board I am JR Admin. on.You don't see any other TGH Moderators do that do you.

I have no idea what you are saying. However, it does not sound like you're as good as you think. You did prove the point though - if you think you can become good by using Aegis, then Aegis isn't a well balanced skill.

Phantom Gun · Aug 10, 2007, 04:34 AM // 04:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Counterable is not the same as balanced. Welcome to Guild Wars.

Where did you see me trying to pass off Counterable as balance? I'm simply saying it wasn't impossible to beat a ritspike, and I feel the introduction of exhaustion to the Ritualist is a big mistake. Yeah right now it only applies to a few skills, but further down the road if the addition of exhaustion becomes permanent who knows what other skills may be affected by this. When is this game going to be balanced? Oh wait it never will be, and the nerfs go on!

Oh yeah I almost forgot, Welcome to Guild Wars.

countesscorpula · Aug 10, 2007, 04:46 AM // 04:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

Because the spike is AoE. And not only that, it uses Spirit Rift, which has a 3 second delay. So during the 3 seconds when the person has the Shadow Prison Hex on them, monks spam their prots. But just as Rift is about to hit, the N/A (which is used in the spikes) casts Rend Enchantment, removing ALL prot. The fact that the spells were so much damage for so little energy, cast time, and recharge, of course they needed nerfing. And this nerf is perfect.

So the whole team is knocked down? Or they all gather around to help the fallen player get up? AoE hitting one target sort of negates the bonus of AoE. I suppose I could suggest using a great skill like "incoming" to step in for Prot spirit and its brethren, but that's right, PvPers were complaining about "paraway" and demanded that that skill get nerfed out of existance (Does anyone use that in PvE anymore? At all?). Why don't we nerf every aspect of the game until everyone is left with nothing but a feather, and the player that pisses himself laughing first loses.

Miral · Aug 10, 2007, 04:49 AM // 04:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Counterable is not the same as balanced. Welcome to Guild Wars.

Neither is nerfing skill sinto almost uselessness because of one build. that's not balance, that is stipulation of how you can and cannot play. anet says they're nerfing to create more diversity? please, all it does is limit the number of skills available... aka, limit diversity, aka exactly the opposite of what they say.

Quote:

I have no idea what you are saying. However, it does not sound like you're as good as you think. You did prove the point though - if you think you can become good by using Aegis, then Aegis isn't a well balanced skill.

post your builds and lets nerf every skill on them? afterall if you're using them you must think they're good, and if they're good they can't possibly be balanced, right?

Ensign · Aug 10, 2007, 04:51 AM // 04:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom Gun

Yeah right now it only applies to a few skills, but further down the road if the addition of exhaustion become permanent who knows what other skills may be affected by this.

I don't know, but I'd like to see Recuperation, Soothing, and Shelter tagged with exhaustion as well. Maybe Defiant Was Xinrae, along the lines of Xinrae's Weapon, if that turns out to be an acceptable change.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

Neither is nerfing skill sinto almost uselessness because of one build.

What skill is almost useless now?

Redfeather1975 · Aug 10, 2007, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

I don't know, but I'd like to see Recuperation, Soothing, and Shelter tagged with exhaustion as well. Maybe Defiant Was Xinrae, along the lines of Xinrae's Weapon, if that turns out to be an acceptable change.

I hope they don't go crazy with exhaustion on ritualists.
Then what do I use while holding items.

Miral · Aug 10, 2007, 05:03 AM // 05:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

I don't know, but I'd like to see Recuperation, Soothing, and Shelter tagged with exhaustion as well. Maybe Defiant Was Xinrae, along the lines of Xinrae's Weapon, if that turns out to be an acceptable change.

What skill is almost useless now?

the list of skills made useless by these so called balance changes over the past year and a half is very long. go through the skill lists and count how many skills you'd never think of taking now, that were once powerful. it may even be in the triple digits.

Ensign · Aug 10, 2007, 05:11 AM // 05:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

the list of skills made useless by these so called balance changes over the past year and a half is very long.

No. You're specifically whining up a storm about this particular update. What skill was made useless by this update that has you upset that you feel the need to go on a tirade in response?

Gaile Gray · Aug 10, 2007, 05:13 AM // 05:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

the list of skills made useless by these so called balance changes over the past year and a half is very long. go through the skill lists and count how many skills you'd never think of taking now, that were once powerful. it may even be in the triple digits.

Considering the changes were in the double digits, that takes some doing!

Sorry, I don't mean to poke fun -- ok, may be I do just a little

-- but honestly, there's far too much typing and far too little practical testing going on!

Phantom Gun · Aug 10, 2007, 05:14 AM // 05:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

I don't know, but I'd like to see Recuperation, Soothing, and Shelter tagged with exhaustion as well. Maybe Defiant Was Xinrae, along the lines of Xinrae's Weapon, if that turns out to be an acceptable change.

Here's to hoping it isn't

Why you would want to add exhaustion to those skills is beyond me. I would love to stay up and discuss it but I have to go to work in the morning. Is it just me or is there some sort of amplified hate towards the ritualist here on Guru?

You should try playing one sometime. Obviously you havn't. None of those skills give you a huge upperhand. They may help turn the tides of battle mainly in PVE, but they sure as yaks don't guarantee you a win. The same deffinetly goes in PVP.

Anyway Goodnight Gurunites!

Racthoh · Aug 10, 2007, 05:18 AM // 05:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom Gun

Why you would want to add exhaustion to those skills is beyond me.

The assumption being that like the other spirits in this update they would have a reduced energy cost with the exhaustion tag added on.

Redfeather1975 · Aug 10, 2007, 05:19 AM // 05:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom Gun

Here's to hoping it isn't

Why you would want to add exhaustion to those skills is beyond me. I would love to stay up and discuss it but I have to go to work in the morning. Is it just me or is there some sort of amplified hate towards the ritualist here on Guru?

You should try playing one sometime. Obviously you havn't. None of those skills give you a huge upperhand. They may help turn the tides of battle mainly in PVE, but they sure as yaks don't guarantee you a win. The same deffinetly goes in PVP.

Anyway Goodnight Gurunites!

Here's my little story.
Once I was walking out of the 7-11 and 6-8 assassins mugged me!
The next day there was a curfew put on all assassins. Yeah, it stopped those 6-8 assassin groups from mugging people, but it also stopped my assassin friend from going to his late night group meeting to help feed the homeless.

Is true story.

Anway. lol
I'm not mad about the update. I just hope that if they start going willy nilly with exhaustion, they pay very close attention to spells that go well with items and don't end up really hurting the lone ritualist who likes to dabble in channeling by his lonesome to help the youngens.

Ensign · Aug 10, 2007, 05:21 AM // 05:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom Gun

Why you would want to add exhaustion to those skills is beyond me.

In conjunction with a reduction in energy cost, similar to the buffs to Anguish and Disenchantment, adding exhaustion to those skills would make them much stronger overall while simultaneously restricting their potential for abuse in old school spirit field templates.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom Gun

You should try playing one sometime. Obviously you havn't.

Obviously.

explodemyheart · Aug 10, 2007, 05:22 AM // 05:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Sorry, I don't mean to poke fun -- ok, may be I do just a little

-- but honestly, there's far too much typing and far too little practical testing going on!

With that, I'll definitely have to agree. All I heard was whine whine whine about how Aegis is worthless now, for both PvP and PvE. Having tested it, I beg to differ.

There is absolutely no reason in PvE for Aegis to no longer work. If any of your party members are out of range of Aegis now and it's so dire that they get it, I suggest getting better people to play with. In PvP, it's likely your party members that will need it the most are going to be near enough to the caster to get it. If they're not, they're likely a target that would worry little about having Aegis on them, they're extending elsewhere on purpose in which case you would know and could supplement them with another prot, perhaps the newly buffed guardian, or they suck and you need to get better people to play with.

I've honestly had no problem thus far. Will things be a little different? Sure. Will you have to maybe pay attention a little more? Sure. Is the skill useless in PvP or PvE? Not even close.

Miral · Aug 10, 2007, 05:24 AM // 05:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Considering the changes were in the double digits, that takes some doing!

Sorry, I don't mean to poke fun -- ok, may be I do just a little

-- but honestly, there's far too much typing and far too little practical testing going on!

practical testing....... ritualists have no means of preventing or removing exhaustion, and are affected by it FAR more than an elementalist is since they have half the energy pool to begin with. practical enough for you? or maybe you need an in-game story, since all the pvpers come up with sob stories about being pwned to bring the changes.... I logged in and half my rit's channeling skills cause exhaustion, I searched the skill trainers in every city and links to elites and found not a single way for a rit to prevent or remove exhaustion. there, that better? oh, and some random spike build pwned me a couple times, nerf it

Redfeather1975 · Aug 10, 2007, 05:29 AM // 05:29

Hey Ensign.
Do you prefer the exhaustion addition over your suggestion on the wiki to decrease ritualist spell damage, but also decrease recharge. I think it would have handled mutli-rit spiking occurrences, but helped the lone buckaroos maintain their channeling dps.

Miral · Aug 10, 2007, 05:44 AM // 05:44

on a related matter.... There have been two more updates since the first one, we gunna be getting notes on those?

Ensign · Aug 10, 2007, 05:45 AM // 05:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redfeather1975

Hey Ensign.
Do you prefer the exhaustion addition over your suggestion on the wiki to decrease ritualist spell damage, but also decrease recharge. I think it would have handled mutli-rit spiking occurrences, but helped the lone buckaroos maintain their channeling dps.

Skill by skill basis. The addition of exhaustion to spirits was brilliant and I'd like to see that taken further, for instance. Only 2 of the Channeling DDs got exhaustion, the rest were tweaked in other ways. I like the exhaustion on Ancestor's Rage a lot, actually, though I think it should have its energy cost dropped to 5 to compensate. The Wielder's Strike change on the other hand I'm not really a fan of. That skill was always a pain to make use of, since there aren't exactly a lot of weapons you want to maintain to make it on demand. But it was so good that people went and dedicated characters to maintaining Vital Weapon in order to activate it. Now, with exhaustion, it's really kludgy, with multiple really harsh conditions to meet. I would have liked to see some other sort of rework to that one.