Curse

myword · Aug 11, 2007, 09:38 AM // 09:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Yeah it really is a joke, but try asking to make it harder and see what happens.

you do realize that the AI there is just to prevent grief teams with no damage getting in right

sindex · Aug 11, 2007, 09:48 AM // 09:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

......

Have you played recently? Touch rangers have mostly disappeared from the scrubfest areas they used to be common in. The only place they're even remotely common in still is FA because they cut through gate NPC prot. Everywhere else, they've been mostly replaced with Shadow Prison assassins, a significantly more effective build that button-mashers can still run.

So let me get this straight, what you are basically getting at is the idea that there is a super team build out there; that consists of slow movement hexes, knockdowns, and Rit spikes?

Well then let me pose these questions then.

So what is the difference with everything you just mentioned, and the idea of another type of spiker? Give it be mesmer, ele, and so on with the different spike builds. Why is the Rit being singled out? Is it because it’s easier to spike with the Rit in PvP then any of the other professions? If that what was true: how many Rit spiker teams take HA (since that’s what you’re pointing too) then well organized teams?

By the by the tunnel vision that HA, is the only true PvP out there is pretty comical. You speak about one type of PvP, and that’s your argument? Come on that means GW revolves around HA, from that type of view. GW is not about one thing and one thing only; it’s about many different aspects that make it such a wonderful game it is now.

Riotgear · Aug 11, 2007, 10:09 AM // 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by sindex

So let me get this straight, what you are basically getting at is the idea that there is a super team build out there; that consists of slow movement hexes, knockdowns, and Rit spikes?

Yes. If you'd have gone into Observer any time within the past two weeks, you'd have seen this easily. Immediately prior to the update, it was not uncommon for 2 of the 3 teams in the Hall of Heroes to be running that build.

The way it works is:
N/A calls a target. 5 Ritualists cast Spirit Rift on it. N/A uses the following skills: Deadly Paradox, Shadow Prison, Augury of Death, Iron Palm, Expunge Enchantments. Ritualists cast Ancestor's Rage on the N/A. The target is knocked down, prot is removed, they're hit by 5 packets of 137-ish lightning damage from each Ancestor's Rage and 5 packets of 142-ish lightning damage from the Spirit Rifts. Augury of Death triggers if any of those drops them below 50%, causing Deep Wound.

So you take 1395 lightning damage and suffer from Deep Wound. Did I mention you die? Did I mention that this is all AOE too, meaning it can potentially do it to multiple targets?

The earlier variant involves just packing 8 rits with Vital Weapon on them all casting Spirit Burn and Wielder's Strike on somebody.

Quote:

Why is the Rit being singled out? Is it because it’s easier to spike with the Rit in PvP then any of the other professions?

Because all of the abilities are 1-second casts, while most 100+ damage abilities are on a 2-second cast. Most are 5 energy. Because their primary attribute is essentially useless, so they can afford to put a large stat investment in Restoration as well, which means all of them have very good healing capacity as well.

Quote:

If that what was true: how many Rit spiker teams take HA (since that’s what you’re pointing too) then well organized teams?

See above.

Quote:

By the by the tunnel vision that HA, is the only true PvP out there is pretty comical. You speak about one type of PvP, and that’s your argument? Come on that means GW revolves around HA, from that type of view. GW is not about one thing and one thing only; it’s about many different aspects that make it such a wonderful game it is now.

Competitive PvP is essentially two things: HA and GvG. TA sort of. HB is 50% AI exploitation and 50% running your finger down the number keys to "play" your Assassin. AB, RA and FA are mostly filled with terrible players.

Akuma · Aug 11, 2007, 10:21 AM // 10:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

Did I mention you die?

My health is 5 out of 1,400!

sindex · Aug 11, 2007, 10:37 AM // 10:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

wasn't the original argument about touchers not lasting there or something? because when touchers came into existance, people took the time to come up with counters before begging for nerfs. and touchers are so easily countered its pathetic... and even more pathetic when a team can't counter a toucher lol

I’m sorry Miral ignore what I said last time. I think you just pointed out was my point anyhow. Yes touch rangers are not as powerful as they were awhile back; the reason why I brought them up was as a reference. However what you came up with is brilliant. You see you brought up the idea “that it takes counter measures in certain areas to disband these supposed evil builds.” Yes there are some builds that don’t have counter measures, and present a check-mate build. However there are builds that can be effectively countered like touch ranger build itself.

Oh yeah, Riot. Now you add the idea of GvG which you never mentioned it before, until now. Which made some of my arguments pointless because you fixed it around HA, and had nothing to do with GvG; so there really was no point. When I was talking about PvP, I was fully rounding the idea which included other parts of PvP; then just HA itself.

Going back to the main point some of the skills were not effectively handled in these nerfs. Some of the actions taken against the Rit skills were placed to organize a fair structure. Nevertheless simple changes could have been made via either sacrifice of health instead of Exhaustion, making weapon spells or binding rituals interruptible, would have much easier on the Rit.

Alas the hit that Rit’s got was a pretty hard one. Will they probably recover? Sure. Are there certain combinations of Rit builds that are no longer playable? You bet. Will I stop playing Guild Wars for this like someone else pointed out in the past? That is the most ridiculous question; of course I will still be playing. I am still looking forward to many different things to come. However I am done with this topic since to many points got jumbled up. I think I will try to adapt to the problem now, because that is what some true player does.

--- Thank you all, it’s been a real pleasure, until next time.

transparo · Aug 11, 2007, 10:37 AM // 10:37

I have been playing my RT for over a year now. The ritualist isn't a class that was originally designed to have exhaustion build onto them. My belief is that its their way of "ad hoc" balance to solve the ritspike to get it out of the way first. More of an action first think later thing. Now why dont they just revent the key rit spike skills damage or recharge back to before the major channeling buff during February?

Somethings i strongly dont agree :

Spirit Rift = 2 seconds recharge? This doesn't make sense since the skill takes an additional 3 seconds to activate you need to time it very well. If a team or an individual coordinates their effort well they should be rewarded not nerf for god's sake. I have been rarely hit by spirit rift unless the enemy timed it well while i was casting spell. If thats the case, then I would say that caster or team has "done a good job mate" not cry for nerf.

Ancestor's Rage : Again same as spirit rift, you need to time the cast so that your teammate is ADJACENT to the enemy so you need to monitor the battlefield and coordinate your effort to time its cast. Teamwork and coordination should be rewarded. If this skill really needs balancing maybe tone down the damage a bit?

What I believe are the key rit spike skills, spirit burn and wielder's strike. Make spirit burn cause conditional burning for 3..5 seconds if within earshot of spirit. That way you can't spike with it and the burning can be removed, thus scaling it down. Wielder's strike, maybe make it lose a weapon spell when case and/or up its energy cost and recharge. Please note that the above balance suggestions are not my original ideas tho I have read them from somewhere

Talking about 8 man team, the RT is a versatile class thus making them able to team together and synergize. If that makes them too powerful then ANET should really look again into the concept of RT class and what they really want. Right now I like them as a versatile class and most of their skills are conditional making them fun to use while maintaining balance. The imbalance only comes from having multiple same classes on a team leading to massive spikes.

Conclusion : Disappointed at this update. Hope they will find a better solution soon.

MrFuzzles · Aug 11, 2007, 10:44 AM // 10:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by transparo

Spirit Rift = 2 seconds recharge? This doesn't make sense since the skill takes an additional 3 seconds to activate you need to time it very well. If a team or an individual coordinates their effort well they should be rewarded not nerf for god's sake. I have been rarely hit by spirit rift unless the enemy timed it well while i was casting spell. If thats the case, then I would say that caster or team has "done a good job mate" not cry for nerf.

Ancestor's Rage : Again same as spirit rift, you need to time the cast so that your teammate is ADJACENT to the enemy so you need to monitor the battlefield and coordinate your effort to time its cast. Teamwork and coordination should be rewarded. If this skill really needs balancing maybe tone down the damage a bit?

I'm not sure if it's that hard to go "SP in 3.. 2.. 1.." over vent. It's absolutely true that teamwork is to be rewarded, but there's a difference between rewarding good teamwork with an advantage, and rewarding basic teamwork with a 1000 damage aoe on a knocked down target.

Diddy bow · Aug 11, 2007, 10:45 AM // 10:45

Wanderlust nerf and Golden Phoenix Strike Buff make this update win.

Point blank accually looks worth using too =D.

Riotgear · Aug 11, 2007, 10:53 AM // 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by sindex

Oh yeah, Riot. Now you add the idea of GvG which you never mentioned it before, until now. Which made some of my arguments pointless because you fixed it around HA, and had nothing to do with GvG; so there really was no point. When I was talking about PvP, I was fully rounding the idea which included other parts of PvP; then just HA itself.

Ritspike was more of a problem in HA than GvG. GvG still has the tree to deal with.

Quote:

Nevertheless simple changes could have been made via either sacrifice of health instead of Exhaustion, making weapon spells or binding rituals interruptible, would have much easier on the Rit.

Binding rituals are already plenty interruptable, but you can't lock down 5 spirit poopers at once. Health sacrifice wouldn't do anything: Ritspike has seven healers and has no qualms with 50% health sac on rez.

yesitsrob · Aug 11, 2007, 11:05 AM // 11:05

So:

With this rit spike the chances of actually catching the spike can be so small that at times its not possible, some stay dry from it if they are lucky but others feel the pain. And some poor baby

may die before the sin even gets an attack off on them. The strange thing about rit spike is it's been nerfed before - it killed some guilds off who relied on it, and the school books did suggest it can't be here again. But now with people using things like Shadow Prison makes you wonder where it went. Even with the nerf I sort of forecast falling to this build yesterday, even if you see the spirit rifts by zooming your camera out saying you can escape it is a lie, because you're snared.

With the rit spikes commonly being 2 of the 3 teams in halls it really made my team happy livin' at the Golden Gates to be honest.

When it got nerfed the first time I didn't actually see it for quite a long time after that, and when I saw some bad guild running it, was like history quickly crashing through your veins - they were pretty much using it to make your rank fall back down again, and it worked, they tanked so many guilds with it.

As far as this thread goes, and the other similar threads, the flaming needs to stop, it's worse than swearing, worse than calling names. BUT ARGH! saying this build was not overpowered! Saying it publicly is insane! I also think no one wants to hear about it now, because a lot of people really wished real hard it would go away somehow. And actually playing one of these rit spikes made even the best of friends fight.... or as far as friends go in Guild Wars, they probably didn't know each other in the light.

I think so many people ran it because of the dirty secrets of the HoH economy, you can make a lot of gold there, and with this build you target someone and turn that body into DP. That easily.

Ok that's enough... hard enough typing just that much.

Kamatsu · Aug 11, 2007, 11:19 AM // 11:19

As this thread is going nowhere, and is full of flaming and whining..

Thread Closed.