Curse

Inger · Aug 10, 2007, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Today I was playing through Sunjiang District and I joined a pug attempting masters. The pug was unable to find a monk so the leader asked if anyone had heroes. Only me and one other player had heroes so we both added a dunkoro to fill the team. Well this other player pinged the build he had on his dunkoro and it was a "questionable" build at best.

He had 3 divivne favor, 12 healing prayers and 12 protection prayers.

Skills:

aegis
mend ailment
remove hex
shield hands
protective spirit
orison of healing
dwayna's kiss
mending

Well I promptly questioned this person's build by saying, "only 3 divine favor? you shouldn't focus on both healing and protection just do one. Its kind of like jack of all trades, master of none." Well this player proceeded to blast me calling me an "elitist fag" and that he can play any way he wants. :|

Well i left the group right away but it just annoyed me that i was just trying to be constructive and he gets mad at me. I wasn't saying "your build sucks u stupid noob." So has ppl being elitist made players angry at any criticsm at all?

Yichi · Aug 10, 2007, 09:16 PM // 21:16

I wouldnt say that was a case of elitism, but more of a case of someone being stubborn, which is blamed for being elitist in most of the given situations.

and his build wasnt questionable, it was crap, But your analogy of not specing into both healing and prot isnt a valid argument. many good monk bars dabble into a good mix of both and are very efficient at what they do.

Darkobra · Aug 10, 2007, 09:16 PM // 21:16

You're right. That build is quite unstable. Particularly "mending". It seems his build is mainly protection based so he'd be better off sticking with all Protection in the first place. You were right to call him on it and even moreso to leave. I'm always fixing the skills of my friend's heroes and tell them "While it is a good build for a human player to use, an NPC would find a way to end up getting themselves killed in the process of using it." Nothing wrong with their builds, just the AI itself using it.

But in your case, it's a shoddy build with so much in healing and so few healing skills in ratio compared to the rest of the build. And mending is just a flat out "no".

Zinger314 · Aug 10, 2007, 09:17 PM // 21:17

That's a satisfactory build (except Mending, of course) for a mission as easy as Sunjiang District. (I can beat it in less than 10-15 minutes, yes, it's easy.)

There was no need to critize that build.

Elite missions are another story.

Yin Twin · Aug 10, 2007, 09:20 PM // 21:20

I think you ran into one of the many people out there who think thier s*&^ don't stink. It is hard to try to suggest something better when it comes to builds without sounding condecending.

I can see it a little and I mean little from his side, one always seems to get blasted from someone when pinging builds

Still, that was no reason for him to get all huffy and

Chicken Ftw · Aug 10, 2007, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Elitism, no. Stupidity and inability to comprehend game mechanics, yes.

Lord Feathers · Aug 10, 2007, 09:31 PM // 21:31

And folks wonder why I would rather have guildies or heroes in my party ? Honestly most PUGS have been a 95% failure rate in most instances I have tried them. I've also been blasted for being a noob myself because I don't carry the standard " X " build for whatever character I happen to be playing or perhaps my hero isn't set up that way. Honestly with the HUGE selection of skills, ways to compliment team mates, or simply build a team using heroes many folks still stick to the cookie cutter or standard P vs E builds. There are many ways to skin a cat.

I have on numerous times beaten missions using heroes and henchies where groups are still looking for that " X " build character before they even enter the mission. Aside from that it's the people that make the game. I've had just as much fun with friends getting my butt handed to me scratching my head saying " Well that didnt work ". But I have also beaten some Hard Mode missions with the guild and I know many people ( those wanting a PUG ) simply would have fled.

Ludo · Aug 10, 2007, 09:35 PM // 21:35

I dont see it as elitism either, some people are just too defensive. He should have accepted some criticism without flying off the handle but at the same time I've personally run into a few overlord team leaders lately and they are quite a pain. "Change this, change that. Take out the skill cap, this elite sucks".

It gets pretty tiresome, especially when the team leader isn't as smart as he thinks. The other day I was the 7th team mate in, took us 20 minutes to leave because this team was like a first year literary critique class full of bad writers. But in this case I see where you we're coming from. It wasn't the best build. Hero monks are usually either great or absolute junk from what I've seen.

Darkobra · Aug 10, 2007, 09:38 PM // 21:38

That reminds me of a story I remember hearing about. In DoA, some one claimed to be THE best player in Guild Wars and made the entire team change their builds to questionable skill combinations. 5 minutes later, every one died and it was every one's fault but his.

Pae · Aug 10, 2007, 10:18 PM // 22:18

heh, that was just one of the special exceptions. You'll always hit people who think that their build is the best in the world without having any reasons. Even if the mission is easy, there's no reason not to use a good build... .

With PUGs, I'd have to say that when I use one, usually only for Master's/Elite areas, they probably have at least a 50%-75% chance of succeeding. For elites, it's closer to 25% or so. -_- Most don't get past the first four rooms in The Deep now.

«Ripskin · Aug 10, 2007, 10:40 PM // 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

That's a satisfactory build (except Mending, of course) for a mission as easy as Sunjiang District. (I can beat it in less than 10-15 minutes, yes, it's easy.)

There was no need to critize that build.

Elite missions are another story.

lol

(getting that 12 characters)

mr_groovy · Aug 10, 2007, 10:57 PM // 22:57

My guess is that he gets comments a lot on his builds, and thus raged ^^
Mending + no elite + 3 divine favor == gg

Btw aegis as a good skill is rather questionable for a hero, 15 energy is not something u want your hero to use a lot....

populationcontrol · Aug 10, 2007, 11:07 PM // 23:07

yeah maybe this case he overreacted but i can guaratee everyone that is that defensive like that has been seriously harrased in whisper chat at some point in the game for making a mistake, people should be more tolerant of new players. i remember getting random abuse for not having expensive armor from random people, and i must confess i have called people noobs. i dont see who you could have possibly offended him but its more than likely he just had an unpleasant encounter with someone else and was "on guard" if you will.

MithranArkanere · Aug 10, 2007, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Ok... if that build was in a lvl2..17 Prophecies character there would be no problem.

But being in a hero in Factions, when you can unlock Word of healing just by doing a couple of Training arenas... it only show the laziness of that guy.

That was not elitism, that was a sensible advice. If you don't listen to other's advices, you'll never learn.

And divine favor is the difference between healing 50 and 100. And I'd rather have a Monk focuses either on healing or protection than wasting energy like that.

neoflame · Aug 10, 2007, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_groovy

Btw aegis as a good skill is rather questionable for a hero, 15 energy is not something u want your hero to use a lot....

It's 10e now. Still questionable? Probably.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

And I'd rather have a Monk focuses either on healing or protection than wasting energy like that.

It's easily possible to run something from Healing and something from Prot effectively at the same time. Good thing, too, because monks have been doing so almost universally since the boonprot nerf (for either GoH or LoD in the Healing line).

Evilsod · Aug 10, 2007, 11:20 PM // 23:20

Because most people in pugs are incapable of accepting criticism from other players because they all think there builds are uberleet... if your can't justify why you've made the build the way it is then you have no reasons to keep it.

lakatz · Aug 10, 2007, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inger

...Well I promptly questioned this person's build by saying, "only 3 divine favor? you shouldn't focus on both healing and protection just do one. Its kind of like jack of all trades, master of none."

If you indeed approached him using the words you've put into quotes, I can understand why he responded the way he did. "You should (or shouldn't)..." is aggressive language and, in this case, it appears your advice ("You shouldn't") is unsolicited. Unsolicited advice is much more likely than not going to receive an angry response.

free_fall · Aug 10, 2007, 11:41 PM // 23:41

I used to get that all the time on my SS nec/mo - "what? no echo?" or "you can't be a real SS without echo". Hadn't heard that in months, tho, until it happened again just last week. I always tell them I find res more useful than echo.

Sometimes, it's just a question of how something's said and the player's mood atm.

Yesterday, my R was in a group that included another R, who asked me if I had any good bows. Without thinking I said, "yes, but I'm using them" and he says something like "hey, I was only asking". I realized I'd offended him and immediately apologized.

Maybe I said that because I thought he wanted to 'borrow' one or buy or sell me one, I don't know. I should have just said, yes, I've got a couple of nice bows, how about you?

MithranArkanere · Aug 10, 2007, 11:44 PM // 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by neoflame

It's 10e now. Still questionable? Probably.

It's easily possible to run something from Healing and something from Prot effectively at the same time. Good thing, too, because monks have been doing so almost universally since the boonprot nerf (for either GoH or LoD in the Healing line).

Yet 11,10,10 is still better than 12,12,3 for that.

Yichi · Aug 10, 2007, 11:45 PM // 23:45

since 9 is the major breakpoint for a majority of the monks prot skills on that bar, a 13 heal,11 divine, 9 prot would have been better.