Curse

Shadowspawn X · Aug 12, 2007, 02:03 AM // 02:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Praytell, what else is the guy with 6 spirits and some emanagement on his bar doing?

Just before the nerf I would take my rit into RA for some spirit spamming fun. The most important thing to think about was keeping the spirits in an optimum position. Lots of thought went into moving them around. Moving the aggressive ones forward at every opportunity and keeping them away from walls so the monk could have room to kite. However I did keep two egg timer programs open on my computer to keep track of wanderlust and restoration, so I could use gaze of fury on them at the best time and recast them, so I guess I was kinda waiting for them to die. But it was great fun to play and play against as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicken Ftw

Name a "good" spirit spam build's skills, I'm truly curious to know what one looks like now.

This was the build the very aggressive spirit spam build I used pre-nerf for RA, it could use some fixing up now so have a look.

Communing 12 (11+1)
Channeling 14 (10+1+3)
Spawning Power (10+1)
-----------------------------------------
Restoration- team wide hard rez spirit, it really is a self rez too cause they might not rez yo in RA so this way you rez yourself
Bloodsong
Pain
Wanderlust
Gaze of Fury - (this is a key skill , it is used to convert enemy spirits to your side and to destroy Restoration on demand when a team mate dies)
Draw spirit - is used to bring recuperation into range of fallen team mates. and to bring a spirit into the action quickly when it is too much pressure to lay a new one just move the old one.
Ancestors rage- if you or teammate get surrounded and to support tank
spirit burn - for self defense and added pressure when your team gets the upper hand

edit: i quoted the wrong person sry.Post is fixed now

Miral · Aug 12, 2007, 02:03 AM // 02:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vermilion

I have to ask..was this a serious statement? The only serious balances done to the rit have been the old rit lord build and ofc ritspike. You know Anet doesn't usually base skill changes around Pve so I want to assume you weren't being serious in the first place.

-.-

who said anything about only working in pve? *shrug* What works becomes popular. what becomes popular is nerfed. best bet is to keep it from becoming popular, and the best way to do that is to not share it.

lacasner · Aug 12, 2007, 02:09 AM // 02:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

The point of causing exhaustion to a Ritualist is because Izzy is a complete and utter moron who has run out of ideas as to how to solve this problem. Ancestors Rage and Wielders Strike are now unusable, because they sure as hell aren't gonna waste a slot on my bar while they cause exhaustion. You can only use 1, or at the limit, 2 of the spirits that cause exhaustion before you run into major trouble. Your max energy sucks as it is thanks to Item spells removing your weapon. The only answer is Izzy has no idea what he's doing anymore, this was a completely desperate act to nerf Ritspike, instead he just practically killed Rits.

Umm...I just need to ask..how is killing these few skills (Imo, you can still use a few of them) killing rits? I'm dying to know this.

NJudson · Aug 12, 2007, 02:22 AM // 02:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera

Tell me, do you even have FUN pressing a button, waiting 5 seconds and see a spirit throw some balls at monsters? The spirits do all the work, how is that fun?

I read about differing opinions going back and forth about the change and I find that I agree with parts to both sides. However, it's attitudes like this person's comment that grates on my nerves. The GW player base is pretty diverse so who are you to suggest what is or is not FUN to other players. There are times I like to play my BP ranger and do next to nothing except hit 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1. As lame as it may seem to you, I have FUN with it, so try to be more open minded please.

Vermilion · Aug 12, 2007, 02:28 AM // 02:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

who said anything about only working in pve? *shrug* What works becomes popular. what becomes popular is nerfed. best bet is to keep it from becoming popular, and the best way to do that is to not share it.

Well nothing rits can do in PvP would be worthy of a nerf in any case. Not anymore anyway..

Point taken though.

pingu666 · Aug 12, 2007, 02:33 AM // 02:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by kooomar

Man, this thread should be shut down, its half and half. Theres the people crying because the game "revolves" around PvP, and they are mad cause they can't do 6 spirits in PvE, and won't take the incentive to learn how to use e-management. And there is the other half that I personally agree with, that says its an interesting change, and GOD FORBID the people that play spirit spammers might have to change their bar a bit?

For the last comment, has any rit heard of glyph of energy? It just got a buff Im pretty sure, in fact, wait, its 5 energy and 10 second recharge, MEANING, you could put up glyph, the a spirit, wait for 3 seconds, glyph, then a spirit, wait 3 MORE seconds, glyph ancestors rage (if you wanted to do ancestor's rage still). The point is, ADAPT, youre build wont always be amazing. For example, GvG/HA monks for the longest time ALL had Glyph of lesser/Aegis, then that got nerfed, did everyone cry and say "Give me my 15 energy for free back!!!! you RUINED the game, RAWR!!!!!!!!!!!!" No. They changed e-management.

I suggest to all you "1337" spirit spammers (its leetspeak because its obviously very hard to spirit spam, god forbid sticky-keys activates from hitting the same button so many times) to maybe think outside of the box, and try a new build with some different skills in it.

binding rituals arent spells, so gg to you :P

id say buff wanderlust somehow (cast/damage/no exhaustion varibles)

wielders strike, exhaustion if the bonus damage is done

disenchantment, notsure how many people used that on in pve, probably not many

if i can ill play through abit of nf with one of my rits, see how it plays out abit more, i might actully prefer exhaustion over 25e paper bag spirits

Zero G · Aug 12, 2007, 02:42 AM // 02:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by lacasner

Umm...I just need to ask..how is killing these few skills (Imo, you can still use a few of them) killing rits? I'm dying to know this.

I would say by the fact that most of what is left for a rit to do now can be done better with another class. When there is nothing of any use for a class to do it becomes dead. The sad part about this is that it doesn't even affect my PvP builds that much, it removed one part time skill that I would use. My PvE builds are hurt a whole lot more though. It really is just a lazy fix for the ritspike problem. A problem that I just have to add that doesn't even affect 10% of the guild wars player base.

GloryFox · Aug 12, 2007, 02:49 AM // 02:49

Quote:

My PvE builds are hurt a whole lot more though. It really is just a lazy fix for the ritspike problem. A problem that I just have to add that doesn't even affect 10% of the guild wars player base.

Not to mention the "PvP" recommended solution to the "PvE" summoning problem does not "fix" the exhaustion from summoning those spirits. They fail to understand the difference between a "binding ritual" and a "spell". Well thats PvP elitism at its best you wonder if some people actually learn the game or do they get all their builds from PvX?

For those who don't understand what I refer to I point to posts like this one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kooomar
Man, this thread should be shut down, its half and half. Theres the people crying because the game "revolves" around PvP, and they are mad cause they can't do 6 spirits in PvE, and won't take the incentive to learn how to use e-management. And there is the other half that I personally agree with, that says its an interesting change, and GOD FORBID the people that play spirit spammers might have to change their bar a bit?

For the last comment, has any rit heard of glyph of energy? It just got a buff Im pretty sure, in fact, wait, its 5 energy and 10 second recharge, MEANING, you could put up glyph, the a spirit, wait for 3 seconds, glyph, then a spirit, wait 3 MORE seconds, glyph ancestors rage (if you wanted to do ancestor's rage still). The point is, ADAPT, youre build wont always be amazing. For example, GvG/HA monks for the longest time ALL had Glyph of lesser/Aegis, then that got nerfed, did everyone cry and say "Give me my 15 energy for free back!!!! you RUINED the game, RAWR!!!!!!!!!!!!" No. They changed e-management.

I suggest to all you "1337" spirit spammers (its leetspeak because its obviously very hard to spirit spam, god forbid sticky-keys activates from hitting the same button so many times) to maybe think outside of the box, and try a new build with some different skills in it.

kooomar · Aug 12, 2007, 03:11 AM // 03:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by pingu666

binding rituals arent spells, so gg to you :P

Touche, my mistake, I wont even edit the post to hide that I was wrong. Nonetheless I believe Glyph of energy might work on the SPELLS that cause exhaustion for rits, hell, try to think of something, thats all I was doing. I'm just sick of people being on their pedestals because they doesn't have enough Kleenex to cope w
ith the nerf that doesn't allow their previous build to be ran as well now.

Nerfs happen, get over it. Try something different.

I think my favorite quote was "Channeling is like Air magic" It hits hard enough that it needed a nerf, there were 2 options (Well, probably more) for this nerf.

1) cookie cutter nerf- reduce dmg, lengthen cool down
2) the try-something-new nerf- TRY SOMETHING NEW (add exhaustion to the EXTREMELY powerful skills utilized by channeling)

Izzy could've obviously done number 1, but I really like that the nerf was a new idea. I think its not only ignorant, but childish to call a game programmer with a new idea a "moron."

My recommendations to all people that can't cope with a NERF: don't buy GW:2 it will DIFFER from GW, thus, might upset you. If you just stay with this GW, you'll soon never have to worry about updates, and you can PvE/spirit spam to your little heart's content.

Um Yeah · Aug 12, 2007, 05:49 AM // 05:49

I believe the point was to piss off as many PvErs as possible. Could be wrong though. First time for everything I guess.

Hong Kong Evil · Aug 12, 2007, 06:57 AM // 06:57

why not make a rule that only so called 'balanced teams' are allowed in HA and GvG?
players find a way to win with necros, then necros are nerfed, when players find a way to win with rit team, then rits are nerfed

i feel boring to see "balenced team" all the time

the true overpowered class is monk, you see monks all the times and they are not replaceable, the most overpowered skill is LoD, all teams have this skill

Efreeti Cynder · Aug 12, 2007, 07:06 AM // 07:06

There's certainly been some good opinions put here. My own favourite and mostly played class is Ritualist. I haven't even gotten out in the field yet, and my first question is "Why have they added exhaustion to binding rituals??". If they were to keep this real and fair for Rts, then I would like to see HSR and HCT effects applied to binding rituals. Dunno how they'd justify it (probably with the same magic that justified the exhaustion being applied to the BRs in the first place), but this would help make it fair for me, with even the obvious bonus to the other BRs. Otherwise, please don't make this permanent.

In regards to the rest of the debate, this does make me wonder if "exhaustion is the new balancer", which is fine as long as Rt isn't alone in it. As they're putting exhaustion on non-spells, all of the classes are equally valid to be "updated" like this. The main benefit I can see from this is in creating more original skills: it has seemed to me that with each new campaign skills have become more and more mirrored with little ingenuity. With the current limitations (no new classes, no more releases after GWEN), they're probably going to depend on these conditions to create more novel and unique situations.

Back to Ritualists:
I don't like the idea someone here mentioned that this will push more Rts to become Rt/Es - it's just a bit too bland. I think the same poster also mentioned that Rts will struggle a bit to be accepted into teams unless they are conforming to this build or supplementing their exhaustion some other way. Frankly, after Factions came out it was hard for me as an Rt to be accepted because non-Rts didn't see the strengths in it. Seems to me that it's been only this year that Rts are finally gaining the respect they deserve (as non-spiritspammers, too, mind you), and yet now it seems their strengths are being weaned off.

As for the MM vs Trapper vs Spiritspammer debate: At least each of them had their strengths AND weaknesses nicely balanced. Will MMs and trappers get exhaustion, too? Even the Necro is better equipped for exhaustion with their Soul Reaping than the Rt ever is.

CHunterX · Aug 12, 2007, 07:07 AM // 07:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by kooomar

For the last comment, has any rit heard of glyph of energy? It just got a buff Im pretty sure, in fact, wait, its 5 energy and 10 second recharge, MEANING, you could put up glyph, the a spirit, wait for 3 seconds, glyph, then a spirit, wait 3 MORE seconds, glyph ancestors rage (if you wanted to do ancestor's rage still). The point is, ADAPT...

I'll stop you there. I'm fairly certain that GoE is Prophecies only. So to play a Spirit spammer, a Factions class, you have to own at least two chapters, according to your idea. Two, GoE isn't a Ritualist skill. Like I've said, Elementalists were created with skills that caused and effected exhaustion, which is why its fine for them to have it (that and 2x the energy of everyone else). Ritualists were first created not having any native exhaustion skills. The class wasn't built with the idea that they were going to have to deal with it. Adding exhaustion now is foolish.

Voltar · Aug 12, 2007, 07:28 AM // 07:28

Yay, another learn2postnub1!1!!

Patrick Smit · Aug 12, 2007, 07:41 AM // 07:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeBron

The exhaustion is too much for a character who has 45e-55e. Using one exhaustion causing spell creates problems.

This is not the answer, but ANET doesn't care. PvPers can bitch and moan all they want: and they'll get what they want. PvEers are left to deal with it.

Looks like it's time to tackle the next flavor of the month and subsequently reduce that class to garbage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowspawn X

What a ridiculous comparison. The ele has 85 - 115 energy pod and the the rit is 40-50 range. Do you even play GW?

Not true, Many people with limited pools would run gale, and even spam it in dire cases (to gain the upper hand). You just need to learn when to use exhausting skills and when not (too much). A perfect viable monk build can do with 25-30 energy, so why another profession could not do with 32/37 energy temporarily instead of 42/47?

Lothmorg · Aug 12, 2007, 07:44 AM // 07:44

Ancestor's Rage and Wielder's Strike...
I don't spirit spam, so that was no big deal to me, but those? 5 Energy and it causes ... exhaustion? Come on.
Want to nerf those? Increase the Energy cost, increase the recharge, increase the casting time, but Exhaustion? I just don't see how that one got to see the light of day.

GloryFox is right. This is setting a bad precedent.

Lothmorg · Aug 12, 2007, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Smit

A perfect viable monk build can do with 25-30 energy

And they have almost all 5 energy skills. Or should have.

Miral · Aug 12, 2007, 07:48 AM // 07:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Smit

Not true, Many people with limited pools would run gale, and even spam it in dire cases (to gain the upper hand). You just need to learn when to use exhausting skills and when not (too much). A perfect viable monk build can do with 25-30 energy, so why another profession could not do with 32/37 energy temporarily instead of 42/47?

monks have a veritable shitload of very powerful 5e spells

=HT=Ingram · Aug 12, 2007, 08:04 AM // 08:04

Gotta say it. Equinox for the win. lol sorry guys, but as far as I am concerned now that Rits get exhaustion. My ranger just got 10 fold better again...

Although it is worth noting that as far as Rits in PvE goes, They have always had options for moving around spirits, so they do not have to spam them every time... so the exhaustion in those cases should be rather minimal for that build... Ancestors rage is. a yadda yadda, I used it naturally, but there are other equally good skills that you can use instead. If not from Rits then from your secondary... that is unless your a rit/mo which is almost a redundancy in classes... I'm actually surprised more people do not use rits to their fullest potential with restoration... I have found its sometimes a good trick to have the Monks go Spell breaker/smite and a Rit go Restoration for the team... It really confuses the spikers at times...

Patrick Smit · Aug 12, 2007, 08:06 AM // 08:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

monks have a veritable shitload of very powerful 5e spells

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lothmorg

And they have almost all 5 energy skills. Or should have.

Most spells that have exhaustion are quite cheap too, while skills like glowing gaze/SoLS/essence strike/offering of spirit etc are not available too monks due the way they play. However, they are to offensive classes. Rit spells are cheap too: http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Rituali...uick_reference and only very few come with exhaustion.

Edit:to supllement, its not the pool that matters, its the emanagement that matters taking temporarily 10 e away from the cap is better then expensive spells, If you don't have a full bar you don't waste energy on exhaustion, if u use that spell in that case you must have chosen it was worth it (in the case of a 5e exhaustive spell) energy managment>energy pool