Curse

Echuu Ishtar · Aug 11, 2007, 07:34 PM // 19:34

If anybody thinks Rits are now officially dead in PvE because they have to cut back on a couple spirit turrets, please go find another game to play. That's just really sad. Go play a Final Fantasy game, summon the best Aeon/GF/Esper possible to kill your enemies over and over, and be glad that your lack of skill will never get touched in an offline game.

GloryFox · Aug 11, 2007, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Quote:

posted by Diddy bow
Channeling magic is pretty much air magic, so it should have exaulstion like air magic as well.

So your saying Ritualists should have the energy storage of Ele's too? How about Channeling Attunement or Conjure Channeling?

Quote:

As for spirit spamming i think exustion is a good balence for it. stops people putting up a massive wall of spirits and just waiting on the other team. OFc the other team deosnt want to just run into them all. GG stalemate...

So your saying a Minion master should have exhaustion for animate Shambling horror or Vamperic horror? Because they essentially do the same thing. How about exhaustion on Ranger Traps? People run into those too you know.

Criminally Sane · Aug 11, 2007, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

So your saying a Minion master should have exhaustion for animate Shambling horror or Vamperic horror? Because they essentially do the same thing. How about exhaustion on Ranger Traps? People run into those too you know.

Oh please. MMs have to use a corpse to put up each minion, that's their limitation. Rits don't need anything but energy, now they have a limitation as well on a few select skills. Also, traps are somewhat useless outside of RA.

Tachyon · Aug 11, 2007, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Criminally Sane

Who's whining here? lol. Irony!

No, not whining. Just answering the question the OP asked, there's a difference!

Riotgear · Aug 11, 2007, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

So your saying Ritualists should have the energy storage of Ele's too? How about Channeling Attunement or Conjure Channeling?

lol @ conjure. You don't need an attunement, go compare the costs of air stuff to channelling stuff.

Quote:

So your saying a Minion master should have exhaustion for animate Shambling horror or Vamperic horror? Because they essentially do the same thing. How about exhaustion on Ranger Traps? People run into those too you know.

Because Shambling Horrors interrupt on every hit and Spike Trap KDs someone every couple seconds.

Steps_Descending · Aug 11, 2007, 08:17 PM // 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

So your saying Ritualists should have the energy storage of Ele's too? How about Channeling Attunement or Conjure Channeling?

I'll have to agree with this quote. And with the fact that a rit isn't an air elem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

So your saying a Minion master should have exhaustion for animate Shambling horror or Vamperic horror? Because they essentially do the same thing. How about exhaustion on Ranger Traps? People run into those too you know.

MMs need corpses (like riot gear said).
And traps are easily interupted and have a range shorter than agro zone AND cause non-stacking condition (thus removable) AND are activated once WHEN someone walks in them.
I'm not sure how those are used in PvP nor if the nerf was too much (i'm tempted to say it is), but spirits seem much more worse than the traps.

pingu666 · Aug 11, 2007, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Criminally Sane

Oh please. MMs have to use a corpse to put up each minion, that's their limitation. Rits don't need anything but energy, now they have a limitation as well on a few select skills. Also, traps are somewhat useless outside of RA.

depends if its pve or pvp there, pvp, hard condition to get, pve, easy condition.

pve wise, spirit turrets are pretty shit compaired to minions

Vyral · Aug 11, 2007, 08:25 PM // 20:25

The addition of exhaustion to Anguish, Dissonance, and Disenchantment, with the associated 15e reduction in casting cost is probably not that big of a deal. What I can't understand is the addition of exhaustion to Wanderlust.

Wanderlust now is at the same level or even worse than some of the previously 25e spirits. Compare this to Dissonance (non-elite). Same energy cost, same casting time, both have useful disruptive secondary effects, Dissonance has shorter duration but shorter recharge time to match, Dissonance deals its own damage while Wanderlust deals 0 damage, both now cause exhaustion. Dissonance now appears at least equal to or even better to Wanderlust, and is not elite. I'm not convinced that KD vs Interrupt is such a big advantage that it warrants elite status -- especially with the disparity in spirit damage.

Abbess · Aug 11, 2007, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Ok let me show you how this is a buff in disguise...

We will take Dissonance as an example. This is what it used to be:
-25 Energy Cost
-5 Second Cast time
-45 Second Recharge

Now we will look at its current stats:
-10 energy Cost
-5 Second Cast Time
-20 Second recharge
-Exhaustion

Here is a quote from wiki about exhaustion.

Exhaustion reduces the character's maximum energy. When exhaustion occurs, the caster loses 10 maximum energy. The amount of maximum energy lost is shown at the right end of the energy bar (in its default position) as grayed out. Maximum energy is recovered at a rate of 1 point of energy every 3 seconds.

So in other words, the Exhaustion would wear off in 30 Seconds. Meaning its recharge time without stacking exhaustion is 15 seconds less than its original cast time. Also the exhaustion means the skill really costs you 20 energy, which is 5 less than it used to be. With an energy management skill like Boon of Creation and good judgement when casting, the exhaustion is hardly a burden, even on a character with an average of 40 energy. Granted the Dissonance spirit isnt destroyed, there would only be an 13 second window without the spirt being up.

Overall, this balance means you have to pick your build more wisely. If the game was mean to be a piece a cake, it wouldnt be fun.

Dahnel · Aug 11, 2007, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Made an entire class pointless, Gaynet strikes again.

Ok, in fairness lets add exhaustion to every useful monk skill too, i mean, they have both offense and defense in a single character, AND OMG EVERY BUILD SINCE GW STARTED HAS USED MONKS...NERF!!!111!!1!!.

/sarcasm

Hire some staff that are'nt retarded imo.

Abbess · Aug 11, 2007, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahnel

Made an entire class pointless, Gaynet strikes again.

Ok, in fairness lets add exhaustion to every useful monk skill too, i mean, they have both offense and defense in a single character, AND OMG EVERY BUILD SINCE GW STARTED HAS USED MONKS...NERF!!!111!!1!!.

/sarcasm

Hire some staff that are'nt retarded imo.

Question... Do you make a fool out of yourself on a regular basis? Or was just this a one time slip up? Because that is the noobiest thing i have ever heard.

Kashrlyyk · Aug 11, 2007, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahnel

Made an entire class pointless, Gaynet strikes again.

Ok, in fairness lets add exhaustion to every useful monk skill too, i mean, they have both offense and defense in a single character, AND OMG EVERY BUILD SINCE GW STARTED HAS USED MONKS...NERF!!!111!!1!!.

/sarcasm

Hire some staff that are'nt retarded imo.

Oooohhhhhh! Exhaustion on Protective Spirit. Now that would reduce those bad, bad defensive slow fights.

LumpOfCole · Aug 11, 2007, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Fortunately for us, this is a test change and not a permanent one. I think (hope?) Anet is seeing the problem exhaust, in its current implementation, is causing Rits globally and try to compensate somehow.

GloryFox · Aug 11, 2007, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Quote:

posted by Dahnel
Ok, in fairness lets add exhaustion to every useful monk skill too,

You know you have a good point here. Lets add exhaustion to several spell casting classes. I'll start with the monk. If people complain we can point them to this thread and use the same arguments use for using exhaustion on the Ritualist it makes as much sense. Since ANET has declared all 45-55 energy using classes open season for adding exhaustion we should start a community recommendation list. After all anyone who uses these skills and are not open for change are noobs according to many posters here.

My Monk recommendation change list
Divine changes
Blessed Signet - this should make all bonders happy, we can reduce the recharge time to 5 seconds In this way you get your energy faster added exhaustion.

Healing prayers changes
Word of Healing - This will reduce spike healing and allow for faster games. We added a reduced casting time of 1/4th second for a faster response added exhaustion.
Vigerous Spirit - Spamming this skill on multiple allies allows for too much passive healing added exhaustion.
Mending - Because wonderlust makes as much sense! added exhaustion.
Heal Party - we reduced the cost to 5 and recharge time to 1 second. You will have to watch that energy of course but hey faster recharge! added exhaustion.
Dwaynas kiss - See word of Healing added exhaustion.

Protection changes
Ageis - This encourage Ageis chains and we reduced the cost to 5 and the recharge time to 10 added exhaustion.
Protective Spirit - We thought this skill was used far to much in spike prevention and caused matches to last too long added exhaustion, we also wanted to encourage its use so we reduced the cost to 5.
Reversal of Fortune - We wanted to diversify skills and we thought this skill was being used far too much. There are other good Protection skills you should use them BTW we added exhaustion.

COME NOW PEOPLE DON"T YOU SEE THIS IS INSANITY!? IT STARTS WITH THE RIT AND ITS OPEN SEASON ON ALL OTHER CLASS OPTIONS... KEEP EXHAUSTION ONLY WITH THE CLASS THAT WAS DESIGNED TO HANDLE IT.

THE ELEMENTALIST!

Adding exhaustion to a class with 45 - 55 energy on average is bad for the game period. There has to be a better solution. I agree Rit spike was harsh but not invincible.

Exhaustion is NOT the solution!

Yanman.be · Aug 11, 2007, 10:13 PM // 22:13

IMO nerfs make the game more exciting because it's something new you have to learn etc.

We all know the feeling when we play a game for the first time ( usually big rpg's have this feeling ) where you want to explore, find out, and killl as many things as possible, leveling up to get this and do that..you know...well, a good skill update gives me a bit of that feeling. Caress that feeling. It's better than whining on the forum.

Omniclasm · Aug 11, 2007, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

IMO nerfs make the game more exciting because it's something new you have to learn etc.

We all know the feeling when we play a game for the first time ( usually big rpg's have this feeling ) where you want to explore, find out, and killl as many things as possible, leveling up to get this and do that..you know...well, a good skill update gives me a bit of that feeling. Caress that feeling. It's better than whining on the forum.

I agree with this, but this skill balance did not give me that feeling, and am quite disappointed. Not at the rit changes, but at the lack of decent buffs.

Abbess · Aug 11, 2007, 10:23 PM // 22:23

I still say this nerf can be a buff if you play your cards right. The exhaustion from these skills work well with the NA Elementist Elite Second Wind. Ive been using it in RA without any trouble.

Diddy bow · Aug 11, 2007, 10:26 PM // 22:26

What i mean is channeling is like air in the sence it can spike very well therfor exaustion balences it out. Factoring in energy storage wont work because thats why eles have it, to deal with exaustion. All classes have their primary to augument their own skills. I dont see how monk healing makes sence with exaustion, you cant spike or camp with that :S.

As for the spirits the reasons above explained why they are better than minions or traps, traps are interuptable, are only good once and need to be directly stepped on. minions need a corpse and spirits have exaustion.

englitdaudelin · Aug 11, 2007, 10:28 PM // 22:28

Well, I'm not a fan of this.
I've been playing my rit for quite a while now and I'll say...this stings a little.
It actually doesn't change much in my usual builds except Dissonance in some places, and Ancestor's Rage when I'm with my heroes (But a bad skill bar on my part equals 20 fewer points of energy to play with...).
I think a lot of recent Rit Buffs have aimed at the weapon spells and the "other player" buffs we provide (if other player is under effect of a weapon spell.... or if other player is holding an item....). So this is another way of gently nudging rits toward some underused skills.

It does, however, significantly (not awfully, or not severely, but noticeably) limit some of the rit's channeling offense.

The solution has been mentioned above--smarter e-management. Limits on the elite are obvious... time for attuned, or rit lord, or even Vorizun. Or an ele secondary and that glyph that prevents exhaustion.

I'll acknowledge that AR, especially, was a gift to rits--spammably cheap and fast and oodles of damage. So time to find a new skill to spam.

But it still stings. And if it remains permanent, I think rits will be at a notable (again, not awful, not terrible, just notable) disadvantage in PvP and PvE hard mode. Part of the (insert cookie-cutter complaint here) quasi -requirement for a rit will be /e secondary, or e-management elite, or a partner BiP / BR necro whose job it will be to buff the rit's energy. And that's no fun.

Hooray for balance, but boooooo for exhaustion on a class that wasn't build to handle it.

DarkGanni · Aug 11, 2007, 10:36 PM // 22:36

Totally makes no sense to me why should the pve community suffer cause of this. PvP and PvE should have different skill balances.