Curse

g r i m 7 · Aug 13, 2007, 10:56 AM // 10:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubba

Oh yes, it's really fair to rollback everyone just because of a few. Punish the guilty, not everyone. I don't give a rats ass if someone has more gold then I do, but I do care if I get punished because he did something wrong to get there. Look at what your saying, you want to punish EVERYONE for, as you say yourself, a few hundred. How is that fair?

I don't see anyone else coming up with any other fast, bright ideas to get rid of these duped items so doing a rollback would be the only fast solution to getting rid of them.

Chunk · Aug 13, 2007, 10:59 AM // 10:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Here is what we know:

There was an exploit.
It was conducted through the reconnect feature.
We learned of it today and took action, today, to end the use of the exploit.
We will continue to test, and investigate, and then we'll look at outcomes afterwards.

Here is what we don't know yet:

What game changes may occur as a result of this exploit.
What will happen to those who used the exploit.

My comment about "avoiding armbraces" was more a joke than a fact, but if someone duplicated something and has a huge stockpile of that item, it's natural he/she may try to unload them, and frankly I wouldn't want to be the one to take the offer right now.

Lastly, stop and think: When did you first become aware of this issue? It's easy to leap to conclusions. But you can't say that because it was related to reconnects, the exploit was used since reconnects were added to the game. That's making a very large assumption. I'll make one in return: I'll assume that most of you heard of this exploit today. How likely is it, then, that it's been around for months? Even weeks? You know the Internet; you know the player base. How likely is it that it's been used for a long while without the word getting out? Before we talk about massive catastrophes, let's consider that the impact may have been quite minimal.

We'll share more info as we have it.

I don't know about you guys, but I smell fear. I think they realize GW will lose quite a few players over this. Would you put your money in a bank that is getting robbed. Would you put your time into a game that is getting exploited.

mr_groovy · Aug 13, 2007, 10:59 AM // 10:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by g r i m 7

I dont even HAVE A torment weapon, Nor do I want one. I'm perfectly fine with my greens. I'm all about fairness in this game. Is it fair that a few hundred people made MILLIONS while the rest of the game is Mildly poor? No. Most people are concerned about their titles and shit but they wont even lend a noob a measly 50g because they are that selfish. This game needs to be fair for ALL people, not just the ones that exploit glitches and bugs in the system.

VOTE ROLLBACK!!!

Oh yeah comunisme is gooooooooood

Just you don't have the patience or skills to farm doesn't mean other people can't. I like my fow armor, and tormented shield. I got them investing a lot of time in them. And you should pay noobs 50g because they will not learn anything from that, they'll just ask another person for 50g again. Just inform them how to get the money them self .... Though I can't be bothered any more these days. Way to many noob cakes around

Curse You · Aug 13, 2007, 11:00 AM // 11:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by evilkingsky

but there's already some people who have made millions by selling duped items. even if everybody were to stop accepting armbraces as payment now, the dupers would be filthy rich already. Just leave them be?

So? What are they going to do, throw their extra money at you? What does it matter how much gold they have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by g r i m 7

I don't see anyone else coming up with any other fast, bright ideas to get rid of these duped items so doing a rollback would be the only fast solution to getting rid of them.

Banning them.

What you want is like seeing an ant in your living room, and then firing a missile to get rid of it.

jelmew · Aug 13, 2007, 11:04 AM // 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyper.nl

Not only armbraces could be duped. Who knows what else has been duped. Most likely candidates are rare minipets, Rubies, Sapphires, Diamonds, Ecto's, Superior vigor runes. All of these have been dropped in price a lot. Maybe afterall the loot scaling/hard mode update was not the only thing that was responsible for the large overall price drop. But we can't know this yet.

No, like karlos said on ts, we're lucky those ambraces we're the highest priced itam that was stackable, so they all chose that item to duplicate. If ectoes had been the highest one, then we would have seen a much more severe drop.

g r i m 7 · Aug 13, 2007, 11:04 AM // 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

So? What are they going to do, throw their extra money at you? What does it matter how much gold they have.

Banning them.

What you want is like seeing an ant in your living room, and then firing a missile to get rid of it.

Banning who? A-Net doesn't even know WHO was duping items, Who they were being sold to in bulk. A-Net can just go ban everyone who they THINK has something to do with it but I think they won't.

Karlos · Aug 13, 2007, 11:05 AM // 11:05

There's nothing to vote on guys... A Rollback for those who do not understand it is a reset of server data to a past point. That resets your character's loot as well as their progress in the game.

That means that for my guildie who has been working on a survivor for the past 2 weeks, his survivor is reset to level 3. It means my monk loses the 2 titles he acquired in the same span. Large numbers of players would quit the game if they realized that ANet decided to punish THEM for what the scammers did. Not to mention, sales for GW:EN will plummet.

Most importantly, will a rollback solve the problem? It will not. They cannot pin-point when the duping started exactly, therefore, any arbitrary date they choose cannot fix the problem while it will guarantee them the wrath of countless honest players. It's just not going to happen. As I said above, the economy has been fine for the past 2-3 weeks (my guess on how long this has been going on) and therefore, I see no reason for a rollback.

As far as DoA, they can do a few things. They can leave the arbmbraces in the system and just ride out the storm, they can simply introduce a replacement for Armbraces (given by spirits of Truth and accepted by the weapon keeper). This would immediately render the existing piles of armbraces useless. It will hurt a few players who may have a hard-earned armbrace in storage and have not used it yet, but that's about it. Remember, Armbraces were NOT used as curency typically.

The real concern I think for ANet and us players is... How widespread was this duping issue among OTHER things. Are there stacks of Black Dyes, Ectos, Diamonds and Superior Vigors lying about with two dozen players? I really have no guess with regards to that.

Shadis · Aug 13, 2007, 11:06 AM // 11:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chunk

I don't know about you guys, but I smell fear. I think they realize GW will lose quite a few players over this. Would you put your money in a bank that is getting robbed. Would you put your time into a game that is getting exploited.

Are you serious with this post? Most people who play online games understand that there will ALWAYS be exploits and there will ALWAYS be people out there who will abuse those exploits for personal gain. It is not surprising that this has happened.

I really don't "smell fear" in her post, it was informative as far as what she knows and actually admits that it happened, a lot more than I've seen from other companies.

If anyone quits this game over a dupe exploit, then they should re-evaluate their stance on playing online games at all, because it happens everywhere. I highly doubt this game will lose players because of it. Diablo 2 is hacker heaven even on their "secure" realms and mass people still play it.

zwei2stein · Aug 13, 2007, 11:07 AM // 11:07

* imho, this was happening ever since ectoes got dive. someone propably used lauch of hm as cover for selling ton of them to trader, and also as cover for duping rare items.

* person with 7 stacks of armbraces is very stupid. He is fine example how greed can make you total idiot.

* exploit was so simple that i feel bad for not figuring it out. those anet articles about security of mmo convinced me that they wouldnt make such a basic mistake so i didnt bother testing.

really, saving character data on disconect is not cool if that character is still in game and can interact via trade.

* problem here are not armbrace dupers, it is everyone else who did it. as someone already said, more logical way is to keep your head down and get rich as pig on lockpicks and only interact with npc. I believe there are people who have outfited all their heroes with tormented stuff without anyone knowing it, ever.

* Economy impact is not minimal, you have no idea how many people and now out there, richer than any ebayer can dream. Everyone what was at guru in right moment had enough time to get full mule of 250 stacks of anything.

It takes only 8 dupes to get full stack when you start with 1 of it. After that, it takes 3 dupes to have 7+1 stacks and after that you can produce 7 stacks per dupe. If one dupe takes minute, you have mule full of stacks in less than thirty minutes.

I believe most of people alerted by this thread had more than that.

* Oh man, i wish i was online when such stuff is happening, i missed trader resets (both of them), i missed dual axes, i missed hod sword mass purchases and now i miss this :-/.

Divinus Stella · Aug 13, 2007, 11:08 AM // 11:08

Certainly explains why ectos has been so low.

They cant rollback and banning these people isnt gonna happen, most of these dupers most likely used second accounts anyway.

Im just gonna stick to PvP, now they fixed HA i dont mind so much that they broke PvE, theres no fun in ammounting cash via legit methods when everyone else has an inventory full of ecto and armbrace stacks.

I just hope they change the way the hall of monuments works to prevent any seepage into GW2, if they allow cash in the form of eBay-titles/minipets to influence GW2 then the dupers win.

Ive seen that dude in HA aswel, laming with rit spike i think, it seems that exploiting broken things is a hobby for some people.

evilkingsky · Aug 13, 2007, 11:09 AM // 11:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

So? What are they going to do, throw their extra money at you? What does it matter how much gold they have.

So you're saying if someone exploits and gets rich off it, I should look the other way and mind my own business. If people felt this way, why stop the exploit at all. Just leave it in the game right?

Hyper.nl · Aug 13, 2007, 11:11 AM // 11:11

I surely hope ANet can track all dupes in an advanced database search and remove them from the game. But I highly doubt if it can be tracked. Many duped items (Not only armbraces) made their way deep into the economy right now and have been sold to legitime players and trader NPC's.

It just hurt so much, so many players invested a huge amount of time into obtaining items that may be massively dropping in value soon.

Redfeather1975 · Aug 13, 2007, 11:12 AM // 11:12

Some players noticed something fishy around the middle of July.
We just shrugged it off in the end.
http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forum...hlight=ambrace
That topic started 1-2 days after someone posted a gold selling/item duping thread that got deleted rather quickly. If there is still record of that topic, from June 15-16 then it could show whatever site advertised item duping cheats.
I do not remember if the deleted topic was on guru or gwonline.

Blackhearted · Aug 13, 2007, 11:14 AM // 11:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by g r i m 7

I don't see anyone else coming up with any other fast, bright ideas to get rid of these duped items so doing a rollback would be the only fast solution to getting rid of them.

You're an ignorant fool. Wake up and see the bigger picture of what a rollback of any size would do at this point. Many People would quit after the loss of any amount of gold, items, and achievements they may have recently earned. And many people quitting would mean there would be significantly less people to buy GW:EN, as it relies on us, the current crop. Which would also mean significantly less sales. Do you really think anet would be stupid enough to take a HUGE risk at losing that much money like that?

Darko_UK · Aug 13, 2007, 11:15 AM // 11:15

They appeared at exactly the same time in a busy town, There is absolutely no way that is possible unless a bot was used. Fact - I've already reported to anet we will see what they have to say.
FACT

jrk247 · Aug 13, 2007, 11:15 AM // 11:15

Well if there's a rollback (hoping there won't be one) I think I'm going to stop playing GW for a bit, I've done a lot in the past few weeks/month.

Tijger · Aug 13, 2007, 11:17 AM // 11:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by evilkingsky

but there's already some people who have made millions by selling duped items. even if everybody were to stop accepting armbraces as payment now, the dupers would be filthy rich already. Just leave them be?

No, you ban them and delete their account and, if at all possible, then Anet should perhaps consider legal action if they've also sold items/gold outside the game.

THAT is appriopriate action, what is not appropriate is a rollback which would affect all players who've logged on in the past month.

LuckyGiant · Aug 13, 2007, 11:18 AM // 11:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by evilkingsky

but there's already some people who have made millions by selling duped items. even if everybody were to stop accepting armbraces as payment now, the dupers would be filthy rich already. Just leave them be?

Yeah if it was me, I'm go with damage control. Month roll back is out of the question, simple as that would hurt the company so much.

I'd go with a 2 day rollback to stop probably 95% of the duped items (since it became common knowledge on the the forums for a while duping probably increased dramatically since then compared with the small minority that were orginally doing it) This is a must imo, too many rare items etc wouldve been duped since by anyone who saw one of these threads otherwise.

Then since people thought they had got away with it (assuming we're at the point 2 days ago because of the rollback)
Hopefully theres some way to check for a sudden influx of 1000 ectosarmbraces or similar items on accounts as well as armbraces and start banning ...

Shadow of Light · Aug 13, 2007, 11:18 AM // 11:18

*finally finishes reading thread*

Well, all I can say is that the duping (which has now been removed) alone won't stop me from playing GW. I hope Anet catches the culprits, but won't hold my breath. I don't imagine it'll be easy to catch them all--or prevent their return. So long as the innocent aren't punished along with the guilty, I'll continue enjoying GW. I'll just observe trades a little more carefully--but I've never been a big market player to begin with.

I'm really glad this got caught before GW:EN came out, though.

Cacheelma · Aug 13, 2007, 11:22 AM // 11:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redfeather1975

We just shrugged it off in the end.

We did. It's what we always do. Why shouldn't we, even Gaile does it.

See also: The Inquirer Spill.