Curse

transparo · Aug 19, 2007, 01:06 PM // 13:06

Curse You : While your point is true, you dont have that luxurious opportunity in PVP. The first person to rush into your spirit range is the one they'll target. In PVE you can setup and position yourself so the first target you wand is the one they will target. When all around goes hectic, they just all shoot wildly. the best thing is to follow your spirits target not have them follow your target, esp with painful bond. So a RT spirit player need a little observation around the battlefield. That just defeats the argument of letting AI do all the work, since you need to monitor the spirits and act accordingly to be more effective.

I have an RT and i dont usually play spirit spam due to this very nature of the my spirits.

LumpOfCole · Aug 19, 2007, 01:56 PM // 13:56

I only wish my Spirits attacked my targetted PvP opponents every time when I wanted them to. One on one scrimmages are embarrassing when my spirits just suddenly stop attacking when my opponent halts attacks and starts to run off (or walk off, when I have them snared with mesmer secondary).

Dzan · Aug 19, 2007, 02:16 PM // 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by LumpOfCole

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HnOKDXr2K4g
http://youtube.com/watch?v=BCdz13rQ_WI

Oh hey look, an effective Rit PVP build. Apology accepted in advance though

Who said anything about effective? When people say "rits ruined pvp" they arent saying that because rits have no effective builds and no one plays them.

Should I show you a video of two rit spikes playing each other in gvg to prove my point? Apology accepted in advance.

LumpOfCole · Aug 19, 2007, 02:18 PM // 14:18

At least I was able to bring videos to the table

And the absolute point of all of this is that there are advanced, perfectly fine, great, non-gimmicky builds that a Ritualist can use. There just happens to be easy builds that a Ritualist can use as well, even in high end PvP. Guess it's time to start bringing some longbows and interrupt then. Or a Mesmer to cancel out those annoying Binding Rituals. I've seen plenty, plenty of PvP counters to my spirits. It's not my fault if the other team just fails to foresee to have to bring them.

Legendary Shiz · Aug 19, 2007, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by LumpOfCole

At least I was able to bring videos to the table

And the absolute point of all of this is that there are advanced, perfectly fine, great, non-gimmicky builds that a Ritualist can use. There just happens to be easy builds that a Ritualist can use as well, even in high end PvP. Guess it's time to start bringing some longbows and interrupt then. Or a Mesmer to cancel out those annoying Binding Rituals. I've seen plenty, plenty of PvP counters to my spirits. It's not my fault if the other team just fails to foresee to have to bring them.

You're not understanding the point AT ALL. The effectiveness of the builds were never in question, the fact that there are counters to all the builds were never in question.

Rits are so upsetting to me BECAUSE OF their effectiveness, with very little skill required. This game emphasizes player skill over everything else, but the ritualists are the only class I feel that doesn't fit in that mold. They DON'T take a lot of skill to play whatsoever, and the lamerz builds you can play on them are very easy to play.

And I honestly can't think of one legit ritualists build that sees a lot of playing time. Admittedly, I've just come back to the game for about a month now after a 5-ish month hiatus. However, from everything I've seen it's still the same situation.

LumpOfCole · Aug 19, 2007, 03:23 PM // 15:23

In high end PvP, a Ritualist does need skill to survive. Otherwise, they'll time the spirits all wrong, won't know what skills to bring to support the spirits, etc. The 'lamerz' builds are very easy to counter, especially if the Rit behind the build is such a noob like so many this thread are suggesting.

I'm not talking about effectiveness of builds. I'm talking about the variety of effective builds that do require more skill than spirit spamming. and that I see commonly at least in PVP. But if spirit spamming is so common, than so should be the interrupt counters.

moriz · Aug 19, 2007, 03:35 PM // 15:35

sorry to break it to you, but those "skills" that a "high end" rit need are skills that can easily be found in most players in the rank 500-1000 guilds.

like most pvp newbs, you push the "if they are so powerful, then bring counters" argument. what you fail to realize is that those counters, while may be quite effective against ritspike, will get steamrolled by anything that's not a ritspike. if the game degrades to such a level, it will just become a game of rock-paper-scissors. and to tell you the truth, if i want to play that, i'll go find someone to play with and save on my internet and electricity bills. high level pvp players play the game to demonstrate their skill and tactics, not play a fancy game of rock-paper-scissors.

LumpOfCole · Aug 19, 2007, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Counters for a Rit aren't Rit specific. They're simply interrupts and skilled ways to use them. Mesmers especially are effective against Rits, as well as other casters. This is obvious. It's Guild Wars 101.

Rit Spikers are getting nerfed, and rightly so. The Ancestor's Rage combo was indeed too powerful, so it is getting knocked down.

And all of the classes and many high-end builds with lower-skilled players are seen in Rank 500-1000 guilds. That argument is on the edge of desperation and straw-grasping.

Theus · Aug 19, 2007, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

sorry to break it to you, but those "skills" that a "high end" rit need are skills that can easily be found in most players in the rank 500-1000 guilds.

like most pvp newbs, you push the "if they are so powerful, then bring counters" argument. what you fail to realize is that those counters, while may be quite effective against ritspike, will get steamrolled by anything that's not a ritspike. if the game degrades to such a level, it will just become a game of rock-paper-scissors. and to tell you the truth, if i want to play that, i'll go find someone to play with and save on my internet and electricity bills. high level pvp players play the game to demonstrate their skill and tactics, not play a fancy game of rock-paper-scissors.

Right.Cause clearly taking a Mesmer that has Signet of Humilty and Mantra of Inscriptions is far too much of a counter that you'll clearly get stomped on by other builds.

It's just that retards like yourself and the others in this thread that hate Ritualists were oblivious to the fact that it wasn't the damage of the spike that killed you.

It was the Red Engine N/A that was the whole keystone of the whole build.

Who had to hold you in place to hit you with the Rifts?
The N/A.
Who had to be right next to you to hit you with Ancestrals Rage?
The N/A.

Guess what?The N/A used a Red Engine ELITE skill that you could have constantly locked out of so they couldn't spike you.

But surprise surprise..

"DUR OMFG TEH DAMAGZ!NURF RITZ PLZ I R TEH FKIN RETRD LOL!"

And yes,clearly a Mesmer who has the ability to constantly lock a class out of its Elite skill is clearly a weakness for a Balanced Team.Clearly.

Legendary Shiz · Aug 19, 2007, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by LumpOfCole

In high end PvP, a Ritualist does need skill to survive. Otherwise, they'll time the spirits all wrong, won't know what skills to bring to support the spirits, etc. The 'lamerz' builds are very easy to counter, especially if the Rit behind the build is such a noob like so many this thread are suggesting.

I'm not talking about effectiveness of builds. I'm talking about the variety of effective builds that do require more skill than spirit spamming. and that I see commonly at least in PVP. But if spirit spamming is so common, than so should be the interrupt counters.

I was unaware people counted "reading comprehension" as skill nowadays. Are you honestly trying to tell me that it takes skill to tell which skills are cohesive?

To be honest, it only takes one person with an ounce of common sense to do it and then it gets used over and over again. That's the process of a cookie cutter build big guy, one person uses it and does well with it then everybody uses it.

The whole "bring a counter" angle you're pushing has NOTHING to do with the fact that rits don't fit the style of this game. You can bring a counter for EVERY profession, and EVERY build in the ENTIRE game. That's not really a legit argument, that's something you say when 1. your head is so far in the clouds that you think you're above everybody else skill wise and intellectually, and anybody that disagrees with you is a noob or 2. you couldn't think of anything better. I have a feeling it's a bit of both in this case.

It's kind of pointless trying to highlight all the lame things about a profession when he's obviously a homer for that class (your listed profession is after all, a Rt). My opinion is that Rts DON'T take a lot of skill to play (I've played a few, so that IS speaking for experience), they aren't versatile, all of their builds are gimmicky, and they've ruined PvP to the point where it's really not fun to play anymore. Obviously you disagree with me, but there are some that do agree. I'm not going to agree with you that Rts take skill, or are good for the game because I don't see the logic in that. However I'm not expecting you to agree with me, since you obviously have some deep rooted love for the profession.

LumpOfCole · Aug 19, 2007, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Ritualists are indeed my favorite profession. They are versatile, and it's an objectionable fact that they are one of the most versatile professions in the game with the range of effective builds they are capable of. I believe it is you with your head in the clouds and your undying self-professed hatred of Ritualists that is causing blindness here, and not my liking of them. The ultimate irony is is that you have no say in what the "style of the game" actually happens to be. You just assume you know the style of the game, and you assume that your perception of Ritualists means that they don't fit into the style of the game. It is up to A.net to decide the style of the game, and they have added and supported Ritualists to bring in their own unique angles and aspects into skill and strategy.

And yes, strategy to know which builds to bring is half the game. Using a cookie cutter build that is available on a build site like pvxwiki has nothing to do with this. It only means you are using a build that has been mass produced and used by the community already, and just for copying a build one is at a disadvantage because the other teams is that much better prepared with experience and knowledge in fighting it. As the old saying goes: "the battle is won before the fight."

By resorting to the "they aren't versatile, they are gimmicky, I've played them so that's my defense" argument, you indeed show that it is you with the "I'm right, you're wrong" attitude and the "head in the clouds" syndrome. I wouldn't say I have a deep rooted love for the profession as I have a deep rooted respect for those who see past the surface of the easier Rit builds one is accustomed to seeing.

Oh, and bringing proper counters has everything to do with the style of the game. But good try in that diversion

Legendary Shiz · Aug 19, 2007, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by LumpOfCole

Ritualists are indeed my favorite profession. They are versatile, and it's an objectionable fact that they are one of the most versatile professions in the game with the range of effective builds they are capable of. I believe it is you with your head in the clouds and your undying self-professed hatred of Ritualists that is causing blindness here, and not my liking of them. The ultimate irony is is that you have no say in what the "style of the game" actually happens to be. You just assume you know the style of the game, and you assume that your perception of Ritualists means that they don't fit into the style of the game. It is up to A.net to decide the style of the game, and they have added and supported Ritualists to bring in their own unique angles and aspects into skill and strategy.

And yes, strategy to know which builds to bring is half the game. Using a cookie cutter build that is available on a build site like pvxwiki has nothing to do with this. It only means you are using a build that has been mass produced and used by the community already, and just for copying a build one is at a disadvantage because the other teams is that much better prepared with experience and knowledge in fighting it. As the old saying goes: "the battle is won before the fight."

By resorting to the "they aren't versatile, they are gimmicky, I've played them so that's my defense" argument, you indeed show that it is you with the "I'm right, you're wrong" attitude and the "head in the clouds" syndrome. I wouldn't say I have a deep rooted love for the profession as I have a deep rooted respect for those who see past the surface of the easier Rit builds one is accustomed to seeing.

Oh, and bringing proper counters has everything to do with the style of the game. But good try in that diversion

You're completely blowing off the fact that they don't fit the style of this game. Telling me I'm not a dev, so I have no say in how the game goes, though true, completely diverts the point. It doesn't take administrative power to take a look at the game and tell where something doesn't fit.

Rits unnecessarily slow the game down, but I'm not going to sit here and regurgitate the countless number of points that have already been brought up.

I just find it funny that your only defense in the entire thing is "bring a counter", eerily similar to the IWAYers of old.

I've said my peace in this thread, I couldn't care less what you think about my opinions. A lot agree with them, a lot disagree with them. Nothing I say is going to change your perspective.

moriz · Aug 19, 2007, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theus

Right.Cause clearly taking a Mesmer that has Signet of Humilty and Mantra of Inscriptions is far too much of a counter that you'll clearly get stomped on by other builds.

It's just that retards like yourself and the others in this thread that hate Ritualists were oblivious to the fact that it wasn't the damage of the spike that killed you.

It was the Red Engine N/A that was the whole keystone of the whole build.

Who had to hold you in place to hit you with the Rifts?
The N/A.
Who had to be right next to you to hit you with Ancestrals Rage?
The N/A.

Guess what?The N/A used a Red Engine ELITE skill that you could have constantly locked out of so they couldn't spike you.

But surprise surprise..

"DUR OMFG TEH DAMAGZ!NURF RITZ PLZ I R TEH FKIN RETRD LOL!"

And yes,clearly a Mesmer who has the ability to constantly lock a class out of its Elite skill is clearly a weakness for a Balanced Team.Clearly.

the ritspike in gvg does not have a N/A. just 8 rits, all of them shitting spirits everywhere, and spiking everything every 5 seconds or so with 1s cast skills and 1s cast afterspikes. as such, my comments are directed against that kind of ritspike. can a ranger or a mesmer interrupt a few of the skills? yep. will it make a difference? no, simply because there are 8 of them, and to interrupt enough of the build to cripple it, you'll need to run 4 rangers. or 4 mesmers. either choice is not viable against anything else. after all, if each rit packs 2 spirits as well as numerous spiking skills, it will take a shitload of interrupts to disable just the spirits, so they cannot abuse the "within earshot of a spirit" mechanic.

lastly, try not to criticize those who have studied the game in greater detail. you'll only look foolish. my point still stands: simply pointing out counters to something is not "guild wars 101". it's "rock-paper-scissors 101". the only way to counter the ritspike of old is using rock-paper-scissors counter, which was bad for the game.

the current ritualist, in my opinion, is still overpowered in regards to other professions. currently, it is still the only profession that can viably bring a bar that can assist in spikes, pressure targets, heal/prot allies, and buff melee attackers. all on the same skillbar. obviously, there are no other profession capable of doing this. the old exhaustion-nerfed ritualists will at least put a damper on this obscene skillbar, making rit players pick and choose what and when they should join in on the attack. now, it's open season for them again.