Curse

wolfwing · Aug 28, 2007, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Any tips or such for building hero's? I've been doing fairly well with them, but latly been looking into how to improve them and been noticing some annoying things.

For one...they just outright refuse to use some skills 90% of the time. Like I had power block on Norgu, and regardless ofw hat I was fighting he use every other skill except that.

Or Magrid had epedemic and I watched her use it like once in 10 matches in zeishan elite arena.

Is there some way to make sure they use certain skills without having to hit the button all the time? Wich doesn't work with reactionary skills since they often have a 5-10 second delay between when you tell them to do something and when they actually bother to do it.

Plus one annoying thing I've noticed, if you tell hero's to run, but they have a skill you've told them to activate, they will wait to use that skill the exclusion of everything else. Like with Wurm farming, you put up wail but if the undead have drained their energy to 0 they will just keep attacking rather then retreat.

EternalTempest · Aug 28, 2007, 06:16 PM // 18:16

Noticed how some skill would not be triggered unless there AI was set to defense or above, but no skills if "avoid combat".

wolfwing · Aug 28, 2007, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Never thought of that, I usually set them all to engage, as I've found all to often you will have hero's just sit back when a mobs close to death and all you got are mages and no ones tryng to kill it.

Winterclaw · Aug 28, 2007, 06:23 PM // 18:23

I thought necros still made minions if they were set to no combat...

mazey vorstagg · Aug 28, 2007, 06:25 PM // 18:25

And monks still heal if you set them to no combat.

They just don't use attacking skills

wolfwing · Aug 28, 2007, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Any skills that should be avoided in particular? Or ones that hero's don't use particularly well?

wolfwing · Aug 28, 2007, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Oops, right now I was working with Magrid/Olias for a ailement build have them drop tons of conditions then spread them out to everyone.

Diablo™ · Aug 28, 2007, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Most spam skills, especially offensive spam skills. Heroes don't usually spam anything, but they handle defensive spam skills like Tainted Flesh pretty well.

ValaOfTheFens · Aug 28, 2007, 07:04 PM // 19:04

1. Unlock alot of skills. Variety is the spice of life after all.

2. Learn to flag them properly. This is very important b/c your healer heroes will have base of operations and it keeps your other heroes from chasing enemies that kite.
3. Pay attention to skill bars. Heroes do alot of annoying things when equipped with certain skills. Avoid any caster skills that say "adjacent foes" unless you're prepared to constantly heal and/or rez your caster heroes.
4. Have alot of builds. Different areas need to be approached in different ways. Its not a good idea to go into Pockmark Flats with a MM hero b/c there aren't many exploitable corpses(I did that while vanquishing...lol). I suggest just going to GuildWiki and saving a bunch of general PvE builds. Most of them are ok.

wilderness · Aug 28, 2007, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Advice?

'Heroes'

Seriously?

I run with the control panel open for each hero, and if I need certain skill I'll mark it. OR, deactivate any skills I don't need them to use to increase chance of the ones I do.

I also make sure I flag my casters just outside of aggro bubble, this tends to make them pay attention more and not run around getting themselves confused or running into seemingly blind spots.

You're best running simple builds with heroes, anything that requires order/reactions you'll have to keep in check yourself and that - while it can be done to a degree - detracts from the fun.

Mr. G · Aug 28, 2007, 07:20 PM // 19:20

if you check the hero forums theres a nice list of skills that are big no-no's

Tips:
-Heros willa lways want to pay the full price - I find expertise or skills that reduce E cost often dont trigger correctly with heros and they will wait for that E needed for the spell to be reached
-Defence spam (like listed above) is especially good with healing spells, keep your monks running low cost spells to reduce the "Blackout" periods
-Passive management - in 2 ways, heros should be able to work efficently on their own (although you shouldnt lossen your grip) and Passive E management skills of active, skills like attunements and divine spirit works nicley with heros as they tend tend to have less "mess ups" (such as casting flare after a GoLE) than active ones.

just a few tips there from my experiance

TheRaven · Aug 28, 2007, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfwing

Any skills that should be avoided in particular? Or ones that hero's don't use particularly well?

My E/Me runs a Savannah Heat, Arcane Echo build frequently and it works great, so I put the same build on Zhed and Sousuke.

It was a disaster in their hands. I caught them frequently Echoing Fire Attunement. So, now I just substitute another skill for Arcane echo.

wolfwing · Aug 28, 2007, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Something the game needs, but doubt they ever add as it would make it MUCH too easy...:> A FFXII Gambit like system, priortize spells, have them use it WHEN you want.

EternalTempest · Aug 28, 2007, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

I thought necros still made minions if they were set to no combat...

I noticed this with Gwen (EN Hero) - Had her avoid combat = no skill / not doing anything.

zwei2stein · Aug 28, 2007, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Order of skills on skillbar matters (a lot). It can break build they would otherwise use properly.

wolfwing · Aug 28, 2007, 08:08 PM // 20:08

heh yet I've seen them ignore skills on the far right and far left.

R!ghteous Ind!gnation · Aug 28, 2007, 08:21 PM // 20:21

lol avoid echo for sure... and for energy management use enchantments as heros tend to keep them up constantly.

OlMurraniKasale · Aug 28, 2007, 10:15 PM // 22:15

1) Flag your heroes properly.
2) Heroes love dancing in AoE, so run yourself around a bit to get them outa there.
3) Some skills just won't be used at all.
4) Some skills will be used ALL the damn time, like traps and winter on Rangers whenever they stop for a second.
5) Having mixed heroes works great but so does all one type. Ever run all mostly Rangers on that mission to assault the Kornan city? Epic!
6) If you don't like micromanaging and KNOWING every skill, the basic skills plus an elite works nicely.
7) Do use the control panel occasionally, like on Razah I have to activate some of his skills because he will just stand about looking at flowers and bunnies if I let him.
8) Don't be afraid to use Protection Henchmen with heroes.

wolfwing · Aug 28, 2007, 10:19 PM // 22:19

I guess a question is...if your going with H+H what MUST you take with you? I mean what classes just really can't be left to the henchmen.

free_fall · Aug 28, 2007, 10:57 PM // 22:57

When soloing with H&H, I use W, MM and nuker heroes + 2 monk, mes and earth henches; if I'm on my W, I sub a R hero (with Apply Poison) for the W one. This seems to work well in most situations. I generally only use my Mo heroes in pugs, when the other profs are already covered.