Curse

Racthoh · Aug 31, 2007, 06:00 AM // 06:00

TNTF is still amazing, as is Seed of Life. Remember how awesome Incoming! was when it lasted for 5, 6 seconds with a 20 second recharge? Even though it was only up ~25% of the time it was an amazing skill? How is it then that since TNTF is now only up ~50% of the time, giving a 32-35% reduction in damage followed by a Heal Party it becomes a useless skill? Let's also not forget, it isn't elite.

All this tweak has done is changed my elite to Focussed Anger, another skill to For Great Justice!, and brought along Save Yourselves!. I refuse to put any sort of effort into playing my paragon.

Show me a paragon skill, rather, show me *any* skill that is better than TNTF. I am rather curious.

Shanaeri Rynale · Aug 31, 2007, 06:04 AM // 06:04

I'm kinda sad to see SoF and TnTF be nerfed. Part of the fun of these skills was the sheer overpoweredness of it, however they did make the game very easy and could be exploited in fun, but game breaking ways(e.g SoL on minions). It's healther for the game in general, for people not to rely on PvE only skills although I totally understand why those who ground out max SS are miffed tho, and it was obvious these skills were superpowered just by looking.

I'm sure these will still be massively useful, they will just require to be ran with skills; just like any other build should.

sindex · Aug 31, 2007, 06:06 AM // 06:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

If you honestly think skills like Seed of Life and TNTF were on the level of other skills, then I don't know if you've played Guild Wars.

Drop the insults please your only getting more childish by the minute. You’re talking about something that could easily be stripped off the character with a simple disenchantment. As I said before there are some areas that were pretty easy to get by with this skill, but when I used other skills I did just fine (if not better). I have always brought up the fact that in certain places there are monster skills and environment effects, that should take a beating if they want to hit these PvE only skills. Again these PvE only skills are not mandatory they are just there to help when you’re in tough PvE spots.

GloryFox · Aug 31, 2007, 06:06 AM // 06:06

Avarre your argument comes from a PvP point of view of the game, if the skills were meant to be on par with other skills then they

now here is the spoiler

WOULD NOT BE PVE ONLY SKILLS!

You gave up your point of view with the words.
"balance"
"spike"

Obviously spoken form someone from a PvP perspective. PvE is about the Experience not the balance for crying out loud. As for the skills needed to make Paragon wanted, sorry Avarre either you play with only Leet Players, or you have never really played GW. Paragons were and still are hated to some extent. It was only when I forced myself to grind (mind you that was 1 month of casual play for me to grind) was I able to convince people to let me into a FOW group with my Paragon. The paragon nerf now only reinforces the stereo type of Bonder, Nuker, Tank mentality unless you have two paragons willing to work together. Then the Nerf does not matter. Considering you live in a different world then most GW players that will not affect you. However it will affect a great deal of other GW players.

FelixCarter · Aug 31, 2007, 06:08 AM // 06:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faer

What, and encourage my team to ball up against Charr that spam AoE (among other ridiculous PvE junk)?

Have fun with that. I'll stick to pushing the red bars up in more reliable, less hazardous, manners.

Who said that's the only skill you should use? Given the proper build, HS is just fine.

For people that say they don't like trolling, I seem to see the opposite here.

yesitsrob · Aug 31, 2007, 06:13 AM // 06:13

Quote:

And, by the way, come on, there is no such thing as "balance" in PvE..

Apparently there is...

There is absolutely no doubt TNTF and Seed of Life were leagues ahead of any other skill. Though I believe Save Yourselves and Critical Agility to be pretty awesome too.

To someone who doesn't completely suck at Guild Wars, those two skills made things rather well... ZzZz to a semi-organised Guild group, there is absolutely nothing you couldn't do in Guild Wars when using one or both.

They weren't fun, monking had truly never been so mind numbing with Seed of Life, and with TNTF well, they may as well have never made Hard Mode in the first place.

FelixCarter · Aug 31, 2007, 06:14 AM // 06:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whirlwind

Naw im not internet arguing any more, have a hayday on your other endeavours here tho =)

It's not a problem. No worries.

But I'm still asking the question to other people:
Why nerf SoL and keep Healing Seed intact? One is abviously far better than the other now...

Dr Strangelove · Aug 31, 2007, 06:15 AM // 06:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by FelixCarter

It's not a problem. No worries.

But I'm still asking the question to other people:
Why nerf SoL and keep Healing Seed intact? One is abviously far better than the other now...

Sure, if you think heal area does the same thing as heal party.

SleepyLuxon · Aug 31, 2007, 06:15 AM // 06:15

TNTF to those who think it needed a nerf it may have, but this is just overnerfed to death. Its still probably the best Paragon skill but getting into groups as a paragon was hard enough now they will tell me, "TNTF stinks now,so no FoW for you!" Seriously This skill was strong and gave paragons a purpose as a damage reductor. Now The recharge makes people rather have a bonder instead.

People who never played paragons its easy to say its overpowered but to a paragon player its what made us wanted!! Now we are some ranged warrior with a spear Micheal Jackson dance moves and a kilt and most of the community will call us cheerleaders....oh wait more nerfs to shouts....spearleaders...pfft.

I love the paragon class so much ill play through the nerfs and adapt but ill always remember ill never be as good as i was with TNTF at its former glory....... and to those who would say if you have to rely on TNTF get a new build nub.

heres my reply name a better shout that can replace this without having to have more then 1 paragon in the team.
Since i shouldnt have to be forced to run 2 of the same class to be even remotly effective!

Shanaeri Rynale · Aug 31, 2007, 06:18 AM // 06:18

One skill should'nt really define a profession, nor be the begining and end of. Paragons, like mesmers are generally misunderstood by the general GW playing public. Thats not a problem with the skills per se, but of peoples impressions and sterotypes.

TnTF was intially more broken that it was. Heck I ran it at max power before they introduced the leadership requirement. It's not that people are PvP biased, just just want some skill involved in PvE.

Superpower skills errode the skill required; which is in turn bad for the game. For example, in FPS games there is rarely a power up that allows the player godmode for all of the time(or even 50%), it's a treat used in rare occasions. If you look at these changes in the light of a 'single player game', and the need to maintain some difficulty in PvE then no matter the fun these kinda make sense.

Even now, on my paragon most places become a complete rampage in NM PvE, and in HM the paragon will easily reduce the pressure a great deal(my Para is SS 6 i think, so rarely used TNTF) there are other builds that make the paragon a fantastic profession to play.

Just enjoy playing your paragon, in the same way as mesmers and assasins do. Any good player still knows these profession have a lot to contribute, and ignore what anyone else says to the contrary.

FelixCarter · Aug 31, 2007, 06:18 AM // 06:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Sure, if you think heal area does the same thing as heal party.

Heal Area doesn't do the same thing as Heal Party.

You have a Monk... You should know that.

I only used SoL on the tanks anyways... Why would Healing Seed be any different? Keeps them alive and gives me 10 seconds to focus less on them and more on others.

Omniclasm · Aug 31, 2007, 06:23 AM // 06:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleepyLuxon

TNTF to those who think it needed a nerf it may have, but this is just overnerfed to death. Its still probably the best Paragon skill but getting into groups as a paragon was hard enough now they will tell me, "TNTF stinks now,so no FoW for you!" Seriously This skill was strong and gave paragons a purpose as a damage reductor. Now The recharge makes people rather have a bonder instead.

People who never played paragons its easy to say its overpowered but to a paragon player its what made us wanted!! Now we are some ranged warrior with a spear Micheal Jackson dance moves and a kilt and most of the community will call us cheerleaders....oh wait more nerfs to shouts....spearleaders...pfft.

I love the paragon class so much ill play through the nerfs and adapt but ill always remember ill never be as good as i was with TNTF at its former glory....... and to those who would say if you have to rely on TNTF get a new build nub.

heres my reply name a better shout that can replace this without having to have more then 1 paragon in the team.
Since i shouldnt have to be forced to run 2 of the same class to be even remotly effective!

Um....."Help Me!"?

Dr Strangelove · Aug 31, 2007, 06:23 AM // 06:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by FelixCarter

Heal Area doesn't do the same thing as Heal Party.

You have a Monk... You should know that.

I only used SoL on the tanks anyways... Why would Healing Seed be any different? Keeps them alive and gives me 10 seconds to focus less on them and more on others.

Seed of life: For 1...4 seconds, whenever target other ally takes damage, all party members are healed for 2 Health for each rank in Divine Favor.

Heal Party: Heal entire party for 16...67 points.

Healing Seed: Enchantment Spell. For 10 seconds, whenever target other ally takes damage, that ally and all adjacent allies gain 3...25 health.

Heal Area: Spell. Heal yourself and all adjacent creatures for 30...150 points.

Heal Area is to Heal Party as Healing Seed is to Seed of Life.

Mad King Corn · Aug 31, 2007, 06:23 AM // 06:23

That brainless nerfing is why anet lost any future sales from me. I actually took the time to write them a thank you right after the pve skills were released, then a day later they ruined them. I swore right then and there that they are no longer worth the powder to blow them all to hell, and will never put another penny in their sorry pockets. Hope you people enjoy your new GWEN skills now, cause they will be rendered crapola in a few days by the hands of those butchers.

yesitsrob · Aug 31, 2007, 06:23 AM // 06:23

I cannot believe people think TNTF is now useless, honestly how bad can you possibly be at this game? It is still by far the best skill in PVE.

GloryFox · Aug 31, 2007, 06:27 AM // 06:27

Quote:

posted by Racthoh
TNTF is still amazing, as is Seed of Life. Remember how awesome Incoming! was when it lasted for 5, 6 seconds with a 20 second recharge? Even though it was only up ~25% of the time it was an amazing skill? How is it then that since TNTF is now only up ~50% of the time, giving a 32-35% reduction in damage followed by a Heal Party it becomes a useless skill? Let's also not forget, it isn't elite.

All this tweak has done is changed my elite to Focussed Anger, another skill to For Great Justice!, and brought along Save Yourselves!. I refuse to put any sort of effort into playing my paragon.

Show me a paragon skill, rather, show me *any* skill that is better than TNTF. I am rather curious.

Racthoh you are correct however I'm afraid you still live in a different world than most GW players. You have proved the effectiveness of Paragon with your famous defeat of Mallyx however this truth about paragons and their effectiveness does not change the views of the average player out there. It is that average player, that 95% who grinded all those hours that is most hit and hurt by these nerfs, not the likes of you or many other good players here.

@Shanaeri Rynale
I agree to the heart of what you are saying but that is not the reality of the in game perception of the average player base. I will still play my paragon with Norn Shouts that are very effective but if playing as lone paragon I won't bother with TNTF again. Now if theres 2 of us.. well I'll see it's use.

SleepyLuxon · Aug 31, 2007, 06:27 AM // 06:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

I cannot believe people think TNTF is now useless, honestly how bad can you possibly be at this game? It is still by far the best skill in PVE.

I must be horrible

I agree its still a good skill but pug mentality's won't know that and think because of a nerf to it that their's no point in bringing it if we could bring a bonder instead.

FelixCarter · Aug 31, 2007, 06:30 AM // 06:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Seed of life: For 1...4 seconds, whenever target other ally takes damage, all party members are healed for 2 Health for each rank in Divine Favor.
Heal Party: Heal entire party for 16...67 points.

Healing Seed: Enchantment Spell. For 10 seconds, whenever target other ally takes damage, that ally and all adjacent allies gain 3...25 health.
Heal Area: Spell. Heal yourself and all adjacent creatures for 30...150 points.

Heal Area is to Heal Party as Healing Seed is to Seed of Life.

Yeah. I know that.

But HS is still far better than SoL. Both cost 10 energy. Both have the same recharge.
But one heals for 30 Health over 10 seconds...
The other heals for 30 Health over 5 seconds...

I just think if they're going to nerf it down to 5 seconds, decrease the energy cost to 5 or decrease the recharge to 20 seconds.

If it's really about "balance", then balance it in comparison with the other skills...

Avarre · Aug 31, 2007, 06:31 AM // 06:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

It is that average player, that 95% who grinded all those hours that is most hit and hurt by these nerfs, not the likes of you or many other good players here.

Perhaps players should try to improve?

Darkobra · Aug 31, 2007, 06:31 AM // 06:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Sure, if you think heal area does the same thing as heal party.

Sure, if you think healing seed heals enemies.