Curse

Zorgy · Sep 01, 2007, 05:54 PM // 17:54

I did a PUG today in Magus Stones & succeeded nicely....just to change, going all along with henchies & heroes is a bit boring...isnt it? We had only one monk

a para with his 2 para heroes

me the blood thirsty Waderv + my mm hero + an ele & his ele + Gwen heroes........

Me I like to PUG its more fun and when I want = I can & I find one

zwei2stein · Sep 01, 2007, 05:55 PM // 17:55

1) People not listening to suggestions no matter how polite and reasonable they are. Guess it is easer for them ot think that person asking for changes is know-it-all that actually sucks instead of taking criticism seriously. Considering that lot of people here expressed this sentiment, you cant really hope for pugger to do any better.

2) People not listening to tactics. Some stuff simply require a little extra to get past it flawessly, even if is is just following arrow drawn on minimap or not crossing line. Worst thing you can have is smoeone not paying attention/not caring and doing exact oposite of what is being said. This is especially anoying in factions missions where you dont really have time to argue.

3) Standart assortment of afkers/rage quiters or general troublemakers (ranging from map drawers to simple jerks), plus gogogo people and random invites.

GW is team game, yet most of players you meet in pug are simply not going to play as team members. Instead you get assortment of big egos or people seemingly not caring about actually finishing mission.

Builds are least problem when looked from this perspective, simply because bad build with good player behind it can be corrected, but bad build with ego behind is lost cause.

While GW is somewhat easy if you know what you are doing, it is much easier to mess up and end up being pretty worthless.

Problem is that player wont get fact that his build is worthless simply because his henchies or other teammates can cover up his suckiness and so when he meets someone what knows his stuff and criticises him he has no reason to believe him (good old "it worked for me so far, stfu noob" argument).

You also get sentiments that elite skills are not necesary (every build made from nonelite skills can be improved by swaping one skill for well chosen elite.)

I wont even start about rushing. That is usually issue of two sides:
a) Inconsiderate jerk not pausing to catch breath. Agreed that it is recipe for disaster, especially when he does not know what he is doing and ends up agroing multiple groups or when he ignores patroling patterns.
b) Casters having sucky energy management. It is somewhat easy to "fly" throught mobs, If casters have good energy management it is entirely possible, and sometimes necesary (factions...). But if you have people calling to stop rushing and calling out their low energy...

Bad party cant afford to rush. Good parties shouldnt spend their time "regening"

Zorgy · Sep 01, 2007, 05:55 PM // 17:55

I did a PUG today in Magus Stones & succeeded nicely....just to have a change, going all along with henchies & heroes is a bit boring...isnt it? We had only one monk

a para with his 2 para heroes

me the blood thirsty Waderv + my mm hero + an ele & Gwen ........

Me I like to PUG its more fun and when I want = I can & I find one

nugzta · Sep 01, 2007, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Thats your fun, not my fun. My fun is getting things done without too much hassle, H/H <3

gloria vander belt · Sep 01, 2007, 06:24 PM // 18:24

The whole reason people stopped using PUG group's is because u will have nothing but problems and at points makes u wanna delete the game, Take my 2 online freinds i love them to death, but both are pretty bad players and have being playing alot longer then i, so i dont ask for help i only help those who ask me, if i do ask for help its usually cus i need a caster to hold a certain item!!!

P.S. if u die u get some crap-hole yelling/swearring at you!!!

reddswitch · Sep 01, 2007, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Main reason I don't group is cause of time needed to be spent:
maybe fully exploring an area if it's new
incompetent players including some of those who've said they don't pug but sound as bad
the afking I do and for various amount of time from 1 minute to 8 hours

I'd rather play with actual players than computer AI though. I look for pug groups whenever I know I've got time.

Apharot · Sep 02, 2007, 02:24 AM // 02:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrFuzzles

It's not really newbies/crappy builds I mind myself, but people's inability and unwillingness to communicate, work as a team, and compromise (bringing Winter instead of ignite arrows in hell's precipice, for example)

If a ranger pings his 5 spirits and I go "hey, I think it would be better if you didn't bring this and that. It hurts us more than it helps", and the ranger goes "oh, I didn't know spirits applied to both allies and enemies. I've only been playing for a couple of days", I consider our chances of success to be MUCH greater than if our team consists of "good" builds but are being played by people who overextend, assume they can idle in searing heat because we have a monk, refuse to bring wild blow for shiro because their knockdown/aoe build is "best", refuse to bring winter for Hell's Precipice (even though they already have 12 WS) because it's a "noob skill", and so on.

My guild consists of about a handful of friends who know eachother from outside the game. Only me and one other guy have logged more than 200 hours in GW, the rest are "noobs" by most definitions. When we have 8 people online and form a party, we still manage to finish most missions on the first attempt (and master's reward after another couple of tries), simply because people are willing to read team chat and organize simple plans without going "hey man stfu you play your way I play mine k???" while spamming fertile season as we try for the time bonus reward.

I keep using ranger spirits as examples as it's the most obvious example of skills and builds which can so directly hurt the team more than helping it. Imo, a ranger shouldn't bring any spirits (save favorable winds - and even that is arguable considering archer monsters) without letting the team know and giving them a chance to adapt (let alone express that they don't want it) first. If a ranger joins my team, I'll always ask him to ping his build for this very reason. If people start with the "you play your way, I play mine" crap then.. boot to the head.

First time I played in a group, I asked the guy "Hey, let's match our skills up so we don't overlap. What skills would you like me to run?" Seeing as he was leading, I figured it would be nice to ask, and I got "F'ing noob. I'm not here to teach you" and kicked out :P

Cherng Butter · Sep 02, 2007, 03:13 AM // 03:13

I find that the henchmen builds are generally...well...AWESOME. Lina, Mhenlo, Cynn, and Herta all have 8 skills (the only henchmen I've used), all of which are decent to great. Lina almost has a viable PvP build

I feel much more comfortable running AI players which decent builds, though I expect I will dabble in PuGs as more players come to GW:EN...I do find it awfully lonely at times >.<

bhavv · Sep 02, 2007, 03:14 AM // 03:14

You know, quite honestly, Bad skill bars wouldnt be as bad if Anet could balance their skills a little better.

Maybe update woh to have a similar effect to Healing Ribbon -

Heal target ally for 106. If that ally is below 50%, nearby allies are healed for 106.

Healing Light - Heal target other ally for 106. If that ally has an enchantment you gain 1...3 energy and 106 health.

Glimmer of Light - Heal target ally for 106 health

Healing burst - Increase to normal range and remove the extra 5e for more then one ally healed

Healing Breeze - for 10s Target ally gains 10 health regeneration and 10 health per second.

But really, is there any reason why LoD should be vastly superior to the other healing elites? Why Healing ribbon should pwn all the other 10e spells? It really isnt hard to re-adjust the healing spells, they are crap enough as it is.

And dont get me started on elly or mes elites....

Malice Black · Sep 02, 2007, 04:09 AM // 04:09

I pug'd today (last time too)

Got asked to ping my build?! (refused, silly wammo then shut up)
Had a Sin as a group leader (died trying to tank)
Monks (both stood in melee range, died fast)
Warriorx3 (lol shit isn't the word, no stances nothing, they hacked once and got owned)
then there was me, well back (like a proper squishie should be) casting away and laughing at their utter failure as players.

They all resigned when they died.

Sad thing is, they all wore high end armor and ran around with their l33t toys.

H/H ftw

UnChosen · Sep 02, 2007, 04:12 AM // 04:12

Its really too bad that its human nature to be selfish, because out of 8 pages there isn't even one post that mention how players that wants to group with non-AI is now being locked out from everything except end-game dungeons, unless they grind through with AI themselves. And no, the 3 or 4 people that actually wants to group per hour does not qualify as "there are still enough people". I still think the addition of heroes is a mistake.

Malice Black · Sep 02, 2007, 04:27 AM // 04:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

Its really too bad that its human nature to be selfish, because out of 8 pages there isn't even one post that mention how players that wants to group with non-AI is now being locked out from everything except end-game dungeons, unless they grind through with AI themselves. And no, the 3 or 4 people that actually wants to group per hour does not qualify as "there are still enough people". I still think the addition of heroes is a mistake.

Yes and no. Heroes are invaluable in certain areas. Some areas are pretty desolate now, without heroes you are stuck with henchies. Henchies were fine back in the day, but AI has improved, therefore they have to offer a better alternative.

Heroes have become some what over used though. It is really hard to find a all human group, and even when you do, they suck.

Game progression has to occur or the players move on. GW2 will be no different in many ways. The conent of GW2 will be different, but the player base will be the same, and heroes will be there as well.

bhavv · Sep 02, 2007, 04:30 AM // 04:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

Its really too bad that its human nature to be selfish, because out of 8 pages there isn't even one post that mention how players that wants to group with non-AI is now being locked out from everything except end-game dungeons, unless they grind through with AI themselves. And no, the 3 or 4 people that actually wants to group per hour does not qualify as "there are still enough people". I still think the addition of heroes is a mistake.

Yes your right, it is human nature to be selfish and play their lame skill bars and not listen when they are asked to change. It is also human nature to be selfish and draw genitalia on the mini map.

However, there wouldnt be anything selfish about using 7 heroes, because you would be able to use them too.

Malice Black · Sep 02, 2007, 04:35 AM // 04:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Yes your right, it is human nature to be selfish and play their lame skill bars and not listen when they are asked to change. It is also human nature to be selfish and draw genitalia on the mini map.

However, there wouldnt be anything selfish about using 7 heroes, because you would be able to use them too.

Having a bad skill bar is just part of the learning curve, we have all been there. Some people don't care about skill bars, some just log in to have a bit of fun, they don't care if their build doesn't 'pwn face'.

UnChosen · Sep 02, 2007, 04:51 AM // 04:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Yes your right, it is human nature to be selfish and play their lame skill bars and not listen when they are asked to change. It is also human nature to be selfish and draw genitalia on the mini map.

However, there wouldnt be anything selfish about using 7 heroes, because you would be able to use them too.

Or maybe I don't want to use heroes since this game is advertised as a CORPG/MMORPG?

Also, I find it funny how everyone is saying the majority of people sucks and don't know any good skill bar, and yet now that almost everyone are using heroes, you STILL see people getting through the game to end-game dungeons. By logic, shouldn't all those genital drawing, deaf, and impulsive people be stuck in the first few mission? I really don't think heroes with 8 spirits, all 10 energy cost heals, mending/healsig, can get people through the missions can they?

IMO, the truth is still because of people's inflated ego (by nature), and heroes just gives too much incentives for them.

Of course, like malice black said, a part of it is due to design problem in that the population is too thin inherently in certain areas.

miyau · Sep 02, 2007, 05:07 AM // 05:07

What's it mean when you ping your skills?

Malice Black · Sep 02, 2007, 05:10 AM // 05:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by miyau

What's it mean when you ping your skills?

Just cutting and pasting your bar into party chat. Need to save and name it before hand.

Artkin · Sep 02, 2007, 05:12 AM // 05:12

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO....

Beat GWEN with EASE with H/H

Belonah15 · Sep 02, 2007, 07:37 AM // 07:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

Or maybe I don't want to use heroes since this game is advertised as a CORPG/MMORPG?

Also, I find it funny how everyone is saying the majority of people sucks and don't know any good skill bar, and yet now that almost everyone are using heroes, you STILL see people getting through the game to end-game dungeons. By logic, shouldn't all those genital drawing, deaf, and impulsive people be stuck in the first few mission? I really don't think heroes with 8 spirits, all 10 energy cost heals, mending/healsig, can get people through the missions can they?

IMO, the truth is still because of people's inflated ego (by nature), and heroes just gives too much incentives for them.

Of course, like malice black said, a part of it is due to design problem in that the population is too thin inherently in certain areas.

Massively Multi player Online RPG - Large Online Game with lots of players. You can play with other Humans or Aliens or Heroes as you wish. You have your playstyle and I have mine ... I prefer to solo with henches.

You are mistaken that you find all the starting players in the endgame. Many never complete the campaigns and prefer to hang about in starter areas socializing or farming/trading. I am in a reasonably large alliance and I know how many players gets carried through because I help some of them.

I also know how many players ride the game through - I did some running when I needed gold for armors. These are people that prefer PUGs because the better players carry them through. I have even had a player paying me 50k to run him through NF Abaddon's Gate mission (bad person me but 50k is 50k).

As for bad setup heroes ... their AI will make them use that bad setup to the best. They will use certain skills and not use others. They have very good energy management too. I have had Mhenlo with a 60DP keep me up through a mission when I messed up. Therefore yes, they can get you through.

The day when Anet nerfs heroes or force me to use PUGs is the day I quit this game.

C2K · Sep 02, 2007, 08:02 AM // 08:02

Why most PuGs fail:

Everyone thinks they are the "leetest" at the game and everyone around them is noob.

If Player 1 makes a mistake in a PuG, the rest of the players need to compensate. If the players can't do this it usually leads to a party wipe. Now this is where the fun begins.

Player 2 and 3 call player 1 a noob. Player 1 says it was player 4's fault. Player 4 calls them all noobs for not listening to him. Player 5 and 6 ragequit from the fighting, as it is either meaningless or inferior than them. All players are convinced they are still the best and the rest are noob.

So, who do you think is the best player in the above group?? Answer is none, they all suck. Good players know how to keep situations like that from happening. Perhaps they can see impending wipes and prepare to rescue and recover the party. Good players also understand wipes can happen. Its a game so deaths happen.

When PuGs can speak and work with each other on level ground, then PuGing will strive. Its a funny cycle though, as the people you end up having in your friends list, in your guild, or in your alliance could have been people you first met in a PuG. So, the very thing you hate could also be the reason why you have a way to avoid it.