Curse

Konrow · Sep 07, 2007, 12:17 AM // 00:17

Having played every single profession and having characters of them all except for monk (whom i decided to replace b/c people are crazy with monk builds and refuse to accept anything non-cookie cutter) I know that each and every prof can be useful. Heck, I love my sin and have done tons of stuff with him that others constantly complain about not being able to do (eternal grove masters first try for example which people find hard for some reason). I made my mesmer into a PvP only char because of all the mesmer hate (which has been lessening lately). Now the paragon is probably my least played profession, but i can still see that they are an extremely useful and efficient class. The problem is people don't want to think for themselves. They do not want to be creative. If they see a build that people say will be great for doing this or that they go for it without thinking. They don't even try to come up with a good build themselves first. I think most of the blame goes to laziness and people seeing someone fail at a profession and then they stereotype the whole profession( think the Assassin is the best example of this due to the amount of people who had a hard time and some still do staying alive).

allience · Sep 07, 2007, 12:20 AM // 00:20

i still think casters do the best damage and have the best defense in pve. an earth ele goes a long way in some areas. furthermore, prot spirit+spirit bond can keep anything alive. i make builds centered on eles+necro hexes with a warrior or dazing ranger, depending on the area.

almost every mob in gwen has those blind suge or blind flash things and i've seen monster healers with SOD. it's a hard life for wars, rangers and paragons imo. i think hexes and armor ignore damage are much more efficient.

Burst Cancel · Sep 07, 2007, 01:36 AM // 01:36

You are misconstruing my argument. Nowhere do I argue that trinity is the best way or the only way in all situations. Rather, I argue that non-trinity is not the best way or the only way in all situations.

'Significant' will depend on the situation, and again, there's no reason to make even an 'insignificant' sacrifice if it's wholly unnecessary. If I could guarantee that I'd never get cavities, I wouldn't even spend $10 a month on dental insurance.

Not only do I never claim that elementalists are the only form of AoE, but I actually state to the contrary.

Warriors are an example. Again, there's no point getting hung up on the exact classes here. The main point is whether there's any merit in taking defense when it isn't necessary.

Playing the same build over extended periods allows you to get better at it. Execution, in particular, improves to the point where it no longer requires thought, and you hit buttons in reaction to situations. Changing builds often doesn't help your playing at all. Maybe this is boring to some people, but it's a non-issue to me.

moriz · Sep 07, 2007, 01:53 AM // 01:53

i've moved away from the "trinity" team structure a long time ago. actually, i've never played in any team that fits the "trinity" team structure.

personally, i find that a team focused on shutdown as the most consistent. being able to negate the danger before my team is affected by it is much more effective. it's kind of like why prot monks are so much better than heal monks: why patch up after the damage, when you can prevent it from happening in the first place? same goes with team structure. by shutting down the most dangerous component in a mob, it's just a matter of hacking away until they drop.

my team in GW:EN currently is structured like this:

me: BHA interrupter
master of whispers: SS necro with splinter weapon and warmonger's weapon
livia: OoV/blood necro with splinter weapon and warmonger's weapon
gwen: blinding surge/domination interrupter
devona, talon, lina, and mhenlo rounds out my team.

as you can see, my team can handle just about any situation by using mass shutdown, and the combined pressure of OoV+2 warriors+splinter weapon can blast through anything. often i lock gwen on a caster boss, with me locked onto the healer, while the rest of my team clear out the minions.

is it the easiest way to go through pve? of course not. pve in whatever form is too easy for me, and i enjoy a challenge. in fact, there are no passive defenses (as in wards, shouts, chants, etc) in the build. however, this particular team structure is effective just about anywhere. with smart positioning and interrupting, it can conquer any area while being a blast to play.

HolyHawk · Sep 07, 2007, 03:41 AM // 03:41

Good article; I like that you kept it impartial at most, and didn't go into discussing the mesmer and sin class design. Still, most of the pugs still play in this prophecies structure, just because that it is indeed easier to set up and like said before, almost anyone without practice can play it. I also believe that as soon as people start to understand the game mechanic, they feel more confortable trying other things. I'm not sure if this counts as active defense, but kitting and disruption/shutdown have been incorporated in some setups after the ai update, and imo, those are much better than passive defense. I still don't trust heroes to deal with shutdown, because of the nature of the AI. An example is giving norgu 3 interrupts and diversion; he will interrupt the first spell he gets, and casts diversion afterwards, because he just can't stand idle to, let's say, interrupt 2 key spells in a row. Again, well written.

Ensign · Sep 07, 2007, 03:52 AM // 03:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

Just curious Ensign, but would you agree that Tanknspank these days is appropriate for most PvE content?

Some version of tanknspank works against just about anything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

Therefore, since 'tanknspank' probably has the most amount of skills devoted to just killing the enemy

Why is number of skills the limiting factor? How much does the 5th or 6th or 8th DD on an Ele matter? Time is the limit most bars run into. The number of *characters* that you can have maximally devote resources to dealing damage is a more practical limit; tanknspank is necessarily down a character for that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

it would also be more useful than a more diverse group/skillset for most PvE content?

Less useful. Very low usefulness. Again the whole point of tanknspank is to ball mobs and kill with AoE. It accomplishes next to nothing outside of that scenario. The question you want to ask is if it is faster under ideal circumstances, and that's entirely a function of mob size. With a few notable exceptions, tanknspank is decidedly slower than plowing through things with robust templates.

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

Why have a more 'resilient' skillbar when there is no need for it?

Because you get to cut single-purpose defensive characters for more offense. In the simplest scenario you cut the tank for a 6th offensive character. If 6 guys with no defensive tools on their bars can roll through a zone, cut a Monk. The whole point is that you have the extra defense when you need it, since everyone can switch modes; against the easier encounters, you have significantly more offense since your otherwise unnecessary defensive characters are pumping their time and energy into damage.

Snow Bunny · Sep 07, 2007, 04:17 AM // 04:17

I agree completely with this article.

My experience with PvP has seriously compelled me to create unorthodox prof combos - - - > Sousuke runs E/P with some very tasty shouts these days.

Honestly, if people realized what a good skillbar can do, you'd see a lot more variety in groups.

My groups these days always have 1 para - I <3 Paras.