Curse

Zinger314 · Sep 11, 2007, 03:49 AM // 03:49

http://www.guildwars.com/competitive...profession.php

It's been a while, hasn't it? (last one was June 25th)

The end of the article made me laugh.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Article

Personally, I love the concept of the secondary profession, with all of its benefits. It provides so many options to players that almost anything is possible with enough creativity, ingenuity, and experimentation. Certainly the future holds even more innovations, and I cannot wait to experience them.

"Creativity?" The entire article is about Cookie Cutters!

And I regret to point out that the future...uh...won't hold future innovations, since...uh...there are no more expansions planned and Izzy is lazy?

Ec]-[oMaN · Sep 11, 2007, 04:00 AM // 04:00

Skimmed it over was rather disappointed as usual. The state of the game was always as such talked about within that article, hell, since GW was first released. Nothing truely about the state of the current game in there.

myword · Sep 11, 2007, 04:05 AM // 04:05

Quote:

A note to some Monks, though: Glyph of Lesser Energy is not for spamming Reversal of Fortune!

well i'll be damned!

acidic · Sep 11, 2007, 04:11 AM // 04:11

so how about anet fire the guys that writes these things and hire some better artist so we don't get some lame reskins

Chicken Ftw · Sep 11, 2007, 04:14 AM // 04:14

Needs more java. Or something.

Edit for those who don't know: http://www.guildwars.com/community/p...70608-java.php

*lemming* · Sep 11, 2007, 04:27 AM // 04:27

Someone didn't get the memo that Aegis is 10e.

Zinger314 · Sep 11, 2007, 04:32 AM // 04:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicken Ftw

Needs more java. Or something.

Edit for those who don't know: http://www.guildwars.com/community/p...70608-java.php

On an eeriely related note, that's the only Player Profile, and it was posted June 8th.

ArenaNet is really lacking in Website content.

TheHaxor · Sep 11, 2007, 04:34 AM // 04:34

I see so much wrong in that post. It's already outdated even. At least for the monk part.

Sab · Sep 11, 2007, 05:17 AM // 05:17

The article is awful, both in content and style. It reminds me of bad high school essays, where the student pretends to know what he's talking about, but actually doesn't because he failed to pay attention in class. The whole article is filled with fluff, bad writing, poor choice of examples, and ends with a cheesy conclusion, which I'll quote:

Quote:

Many people argue that a character build shouldn't rely on a secondary profession to be efficient. I would argue that to a certain extent, that is exactly how it should be. By using skills from other professions, Guild Wars makes it unusually easy for characters to become hybrids in an RPG system. This paradigm has spawned thousands of builds in a game that still sees new ideas and creations all the time.

Personally, I love the concept of the secondary profession, with all of its benefits. It provides so many options to players that almost anything is possible with enough creativity, ingenuity, and experimentation. Certainly the future holds even more innovations, and I cannot wait to experience them.

There are so many irrelevant things in those two paragraphs. But, I guess it's a suitable conclusion for an article that doesn't have much content to sum up in the first place...

Rangers go R/Mo with Mending Touch, sometimes Purge Signet.
Monks go Mo/A with Return and/or Dark Escape, or Mo/W with block stances, or Mo/E with Glyph of Lesser Energy.
Axe Warriors go W/E for Shock, sometimes Conjure. Or they go /Rt for Death Pact.
Flaggers are E/Mos with Shield of Regen, Mend Touch and sometimes Guardian.
Conclusion: I love secondaries!

zwei2stein · Sep 11, 2007, 06:20 AM // 06:20

It looks like it was written about half year ago and considered not worthy for gw web at that time.

It has couple of factual mistakes (like that Mend Touch costs ranger less than 5e - it is expertise affected)

I dont really mind fluff, author tries to explain why those secodnary skills get used, but i would expect him to mention historical builds really dependant on secondaries (N/Rt and N/Mo HA healers for example)

Toutatis · Sep 11, 2007, 06:39 AM // 06:39

The future will never have any more real innovation if everyone uses cookie cutter builds, like the ones that article mentions... I'm secretly praying to ANet to drastically nerf every cookie cutter build in the game just so that we can see something new and fresh.

What I'd like to see is a really experimental player write some of these state of the game articles - the more eclectic the tactics mentioned, the better. The profession/build system in GW is capable of so much more than what I've seen in these articles so far.

Vanquisher · Sep 11, 2007, 07:43 AM // 07:43

This guy is completely wrong in quite a few respects. One that's already been highlighted is Aegis, but the one that really, really annoying me, was his woeful misunderstanding of why people go Mo/A.

I don't know where he gets that it's for energy management, as quite honestly that's a very poor misconception when you play against better players. It's far more about self sustainability, and just like when EvIL began running Mo/A's, good teams will quickly learn to just pressure the hell out of soft targets without self sustainability. I also can't believe he didn't highlight the main disadvantage such a character has, which iQ showed so well in the GWFC Semis.

PS. "Cookie Cutter" Builds are generally the most effective. I seriously suggest that people stop complaining about them and stop trying to run something innovative that's just bad.

Redfeather1975 · Sep 11, 2007, 08:33 AM // 08:33

I didn't read the article. I'm bad.
But I love secondary professions.
It's the only reason I still play my mesmer in PVE.
I get bored very easily and find it fun to create whacky hybrid builds.
When Signet of Illusions got buffed I think I fainted.

-Loki- · Sep 11, 2007, 09:01 AM // 09:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

On an eeriely related note, that's the only Player Profile, and it was posted June 8th.

ArenaNet is really lacking in Website content.

They got a bit embarrassed when they tried to interview someone with no life trying to act self important because he's 'good' at HvH.

Henchman · Sep 11, 2007, 09:25 AM // 09:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

http://www.guildwars.com/competitive...profession.php
"Creativity?" The entire article is about Cookie Cutters!
[/b]

And if you actually take a moment to think before bashing you'd realize that most cookie cutter build are CREATIVE builds that have become over-used.
There is not denying the creativity behind a thumper, shock-axe warrior, or even pve builds such as the E/D tank. You just so used to them, that you don't see them as creative anymore.

Sab · Sep 11, 2007, 10:22 AM // 10:22

There's nothing inherently wrong with cookie cutter builds. They are strong, versatile builds which usually take a lot of experience to master. Unless they're abusing some overpowered skill combo, or they take no player skill beyond button-mashing to play, there's no real reason to scream for balance.

wilderness · Sep 11, 2007, 10:30 AM // 10:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanquisher

It's far more about self sustainability

What do you think the term 'Damage Negation', means?

And as the above poster points out, all the cookie cutter builds we know and loath today were bright and fresh ideas at one point. There has been so much innovation and brilliant thought put into builds in this game, please don't forget this just because the masses have no imagination - or indeed intelligent motivation - to think outside the box themselves and have to spam other peoples ideas.

And also to whoever said don't try to innovate with rubbish ideas, just play what we have... how do you think ideas evolve? Out of the blue as concrete and perfect? Wow...

Most of you are so quick to crit that you don't put any thought into it.

Real shame.

Vanquisher · Sep 11, 2007, 10:48 AM // 10:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilderness

What do you think the term 'Damage Negation', means?

And as the above poster points out, all the cookie cutter builds we know and loath today were bright and fresh ideas at one point. There has been so much innovation and brilliant thought put into builds in this game, please don't forget this just because the masses have no imagination - or indeed intelligent motivation - to think outside the box themselves and have to spam other peoples ideas.

And also to whoever said don't try to innovate with rubbish ideas, just play what we have... how do you think ideas evolve? Out of the blue as concrete and perfect? Wow...

Most of you are so quick to crit that you don't put any thought into it.

Real shame.

Good teams won't keep hitting on someone with Dark Escape up unless he's

a) running a flag and they need a boost and he's snared
b) they have wild blow

It's not energy management at all, it's a thing there to keep themselves alive, most often through spikes. The writer may have got the damage mitigation aspect of it correct, but he didn't actually have a clue as to how or why it's used. He said it was pretty much exclusively there to save energy due to the mitigation of damage on yourself. That simply isn't the case in guild wars unless you're playing against morons.

Also, there are a finite number of good skills in this game. There are more that are good in certain circumstances which you can create, but that generally makes gimmick builds which will win unless x event happens. Those are horrendously imbalanced builds and generally require little player skill to succeed with when conditions favour you (ie. good map, the need of 1/2 skills to counter you). I'm quick to criticise this kind of article because the writer clearly has no idea what he's talking about, just like most of the other State of the Game articles.

PS. Food for thought - secondary classes, while making the game far more dynamic and diverse, also contribute hugely toward the imbalances of it - discuss.

Retribution X · Sep 11, 2007, 11:39 AM // 11:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henchman

And if you actually take a moment to think before bashing you'd realize that most cookie cutter build are CREATIVE builds that have become over-used.
There is not denying the creativity behind a thumper, shock-axe warrior, or even pve builds such as the E/D tank. You just so used to them, that you don't see them as creative anymore.

I'm creative for using a build someone Pm'd me, and said use this or get kicked?

Yeah. that's the most creative thing I've done.

/endsarcasm.

they were creative at one time, many, many, many, months ago...

wilderness · Sep 11, 2007, 11:41 AM // 11:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanquisher

1. It's not energy management at all, it's a thing there to keep themselves alive, most often through spikes.

2 ...but that generally makes gimmick builds which will win unless x event happens. Those are horrendously imbalanced builds and generally require little player skill to succeed with when conditions favour you (ie. good map, the need of 1/2 skills to counter you).

1. I'll quote from the article:

Quote:

Damage Negation: One method is to negate damage so the Monk doesn't have to follow up with extra prots or heals.

Damage negation decreases amount of energy spent on self healing. Maybe not the main focus of the build but a healthy by-product. He focuses both on the reduced damage + the reduced energy cost because of it. IMO, the details professed in this part are just fine.

The article then goes on to talk about energy management with GOLE, so maybe a rage skim would blend the emphasis a little...

2. I wasn't arguing against this. Of course these builds cause imbalance/unfairness but nonetheless at their time of origin they were innovative and exciting and some of them quite brilliantly so. I'll reiterate: just because the masses tend to spam other people ideas doesn't lessen the fact that these ideas were once fresh, intelligent and fun.