Curse

Diddy bow · Oct 06, 2007, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Its not like there is some magic reason why this couldnt work with every hair/face or be fixed to. Look at games where you can create and face you want, i dont see any issues there with hair/glasses etc.

Karyuu · Oct 06, 2007, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mouser

One question, did you pay for this game yourself, or did someone buy it for you? If you spent your own hard-earned money on the game and the rig you're playing it on, you might feel a little differently. In the real world, $40 buys a weeks' worth of lunches. But you probably don't have to watch your own expenses, do you? Must be nice to have mom pay for everything.

Oh sweetie, please don't make such stupid assumptions about me :) Additionally, please don't be such a blatant hypocrite and tell me not to post insults (where only one of my posts might fall into that category, while everything you direct my way is childish and laughable).

Congratulations on trying to make a mature reply, I applaud your efforts. Have fun lashing out at anonymous faces on the internet!

tda · Oct 06, 2007, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Firstly to those who think that they "didn't test the model", this is absolutely laughable and you should seriously think before you type.
Also anyone who says this is a large/important clipping issue is blowing it out of all proportions. It would be a large clipping issue if it wasn't centralised on your head perhaps, or you could see your eyes poking through the front, but for all intents and purposes it does it's job as intended.

While yes it may be difficult to collect all the items and yes you paid money for the game, there's no need to go and flame anet over this. If every object in the game was clippy/substandard, go right ahead. This is one in thousands and thoudands of models. Yes it clips a bit... It clips... a bit... End of the world? I don't think so. Worth bitching about anet for, absolutely not.

Also even though people have tried to state that it's not feasable for anet to fix the blindfold for everyone, from what i gather here most of the complainers don't seem peticularly well versed in how much time and effort would go into making each blindfold fit perfectly. Well for the naysayers, here is what it would roughly entail:

Say you have a monk and you want the blindfold to fit perfectly, that's 1xblindfold model.

Then your monk has the possibility to be fashioning around 30 different hairstyles thanks to all the expansions, that's 30xblindfold models to custom fit each head+hairstyle combo.

Then there are 10 classes to consider, so that's 10x30 Blindfold models, three hundred individual blindfold models to painstakingly create to ensure there is no clipping.

I won't even go into how laborious it would be to implement 300 individual assets into the game complete with however many hundreds of lines of code so the game can decide which one you need to fit right, just for one collector headpiece. Imagine if they had to do that for every wearable item in the game, it would never be released!

Really you should just be thankful that anet even implemented such an obscure and extravagant piece of "armour" in the first place, and live with a bit of clipping. Games are never going to be picture perfect.

Imaginos · Oct 06, 2007, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by illreris

hey I just come back. and for Imaginos's suggestion, I already try it but since blindfold can not be dyed so it's didn't work.

Ah didn't know the blindfold couldn't be dyed. That's a shame and rather stupid. The bandanna can be dyed and the blindfold is just a cloth wrapping over the eyes. /sigh

Bryant Again · Oct 06, 2007, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imaginos

Ah didn't know the blindfold couldn't be dyed. That's a shame and rather stupid. The bandanna can be dyed and the blindfold is just a cloth wrapping over the eyes. /sigh

Well the bandana is a helmet, so to speak. It gets rid of the hair. The blindfold does not, so I can understand if there's limitations.

Imaginos · Oct 06, 2007, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by tda

Firstly to those who think that they "didn't test the model", this is absolutely laughable and you should seriously think before you type.
Also anyone who says this is a large/important clipping issue is blowing it out of all proportions. It would be a large clipping issue if it wasn't centralised on your head perhaps, or you could see your eyes poking through the front, but for all intents and purposes it does it's job as intended.

While yes it may be difficult to collect all the items and yes you paid money for the game, there's no need to go and flame anet over this. If every object in the game was clippy/substandard, go right ahead. This is one in thousands and thoudands of models. Yes it clips a bit... It clips... a bit... End of the world? I don't think so. Worth bitching about anet for, absolutely not.

Also even though people have tried to state that it's not feasable for anet to fix the blindfold for everyone, from what i gather here most of the complainers don't seem peticularly well versed in how much time and effort would go into making each blindfold fit perfectly. Well for the naysayers, here is what it would roughly entail:

Say you have a monk and you want the blindfold to fit perfectly, that's 1xblindfold model.

Then your monk has the possibility to be fashioning around 30 different hairstyles thanks to all the expansions, that's 30xblindfold models to custom fit each head+hairstyle combo.

Then there are 10 classes to consider, so that's 10x30 Blindfold models, three hundred individual blindfold models to painstakingly create to ensure there is no clipping.

I won't even go into how laborious it would be to implement 300 individual assets into the game complete with however many hundreds of lines of code so the game can decide which one you need to fit right, just for one collector headpiece. Imagine if they had to do that for every wearable item in the game, it would never be released!

Really you should just be thankful that anet even implemented such an obscure and extravagant piece of "armour" in the first place, and live with a bit of clipping. Games are never going to be picture perfect.

Or, you know, they could do the cheaper fix and adjust it manually for the very few hairstyles that are very thick and then just make the model for the blindfold a bit thicker in the back to cover the lion's share of other hair models out there, but of course that doesn't support your 300 models needed argument.

I expect graphic glitches that were posted over a year ago and some over two years ago to be fixed by now. Two glitches that come to mind right off the bat are:

Minor chunk of random geometry/mesh cutting across a staircase in Vabbi, I believe it is. The fix is to go in and delete said polygons as they don't attach to anything nor are they part of anything.
More Major. Female Luxon Top for Warriors. The geometry on this top has been screwed since day one and reported yet totally ignored. The visual effect is your torso/back glow and you can see this screwup in your shadow as it doesn't cast right. The problem is probably a section of mesh that was not welded to other sections and left "open" at a guess.

I've created low polygon models before and modified others for games such as Neverwinter Nights and ran into similar issues during some of my mods as what I listed for the Luxon Top. The fix takes no more then a few minutes if you know what it is and I think the longest fix I ever had was a few hours due to having to track down what I had done wrong when learning the basics of the 3d program.

There is no good reason for the above glitches to still be in game after 1 year and 2 years respectively.

tda · Oct 07, 2007, 01:47 AM // 01:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imaginos

Or, you know, they could do the cheaper fix and adjust it manually for the very few hairstyles that are very thick and then just make the model for the blindfold a bit thicker in the back to cover the lion's share of other hair models out there, but of course that doesn't support your 300 models needed argument.

I expect graphic glitches that were posted over a year ago and some over two years ago to be fixed by now. Two glitches that come to mind right off the bat are:

Minor chunk of random geometry/mesh cutting across a staircase in Vabbi, I believe it is. The fix is to go in and delete said polygons as they don't attach to anything nor are they part of anything.
More Major. Female Luxon Top for Warriors. The geometry on this top has been screwed since day one and reported yet totally ignored. The visual effect is your torso/back glow and you can see this screwup in your shadow as it doesn't cast right. The problem is probably a section of mesh that was not welded to other sections and left "open" at a guess.

I've created low polygon models before and modified others for games such as Neverwinter Nights and ran into similar issues during some of my mods as what I listed for the Luxon Top. The fix takes no more then a few minutes if you know what it is and I think the longest fix I ever had was a few hours due to having to track down what I had done wrong when learning the basics of the 3d program.

Bugs such as the armour one should, imo, be altered immediately. I'm not just being a being a hypocrit now saying "this one should be fixed but that one shouldn't", my rationale for wanting to see that fixed over this blindfold is because it is an armour that is custom tailored for one class+gender combination. However when it's a model for headgear that's recycled for every class, i would rather they concentrate on more important things. I'm digressing from my initial point now anyway. I don't think it should never be fixed, i just don't agree with flaming a-net because it clips slightly, saying "they must not test their game". Absurd.

Now perhaps you are right and 300 models would not be required, but what would be faster? Just getting down to it and creating the 300 models, or creating 4 or 5 and pain-stakingly tweaking them while cross referencing every change of the mesh against every single head/hair combo there is? I'm a modder of games myself, and i know neither is really an appealing solution to this problem.

This is not really related to my point, but i've typed it now so.. -----
There's also this fact to take into consideration - they have to patch the game and roll out an update to everyone to fix a problem like this. I don't think i'm dramatising to say that a patch for a game as big as GW is a very large undertaking, puts stress on the servers and is generally not an easy thing to do. If i were in A-net's shoes i'd need a better reason than a bit of clipping to roll out an update to hundreds and hundreds of thousands of customers.
This ties to the vabbi thing as well, would you expect them to recompile the entire vabbi area in question an then roll an update for one polygon that's slightly obtrusive?
---------------------------------

Things have priority, and unfortunately this blindfold isn't one of them right now. It might be in the future and i hope that it is, but it is not ok to flame anet because it's not quite correct for your specific class/hair combo RIGHT NOW. You guys are getting this stuff for a fraction of the cost of most MMO's, remember. You shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imaginos

There is no good reason for the above glitches to still be in game after 1 year and 2 years respectively.

One good reason i can think of is that they have more pressing things to alter than minor bugs. PVP skill balance, expansion content, GW2. I could go on, but you get my drift. Small bugs < balance/expansions/large bugs.

illreris · Oct 07, 2007, 04:00 AM // 04:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by tda

Really you should just be thankful that anet even implemented such an obscure and extravagant piece of "armour" in the first place, and live with a bit of clipping. Games are never going to be picture perfect.

Yuck! I will never be thankful for clipping armours instead I would rather pleased if they didn't add it to game at first or leave some alert tag at the end of items description like :

- We already tested this item be aware of some clipping issues that might be happen when you press "OK" that mean you accept the risk and have no right to complain anything because we won't fix this tiny little problem and we already warn you! -

That's kinda would be fun lol.

Midnight Harmony · Oct 07, 2007, 04:27 AM // 04:27

You didn't expect a fringe to clip with a blindfold? Think logically for a moment, the game can't differentiate between hairstyles so there's bound to be issues regarding certain styles. All you can do is live with it, because unfortunately no changes will be made.

Imaginos · Oct 07, 2007, 02:08 PM // 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by tda

Bugs such as the armour one should, imo, be altered immediately. I'm not just being a being a hypocrit now saying "this one should be fixed but that one shouldn't", my rationale for wanting to see that fixed over this blindfold is because it is an armour that is custom tailored for one class+gender combination. However when it's a model for headgear that's recycled for every class, i would rather they concentrate on more important things. I'm digressing from my initial point now anyway. I don't think it should never be fixed, i just don't agree with flaming a-net because it clips slightly, saying "they must not test their game". Absurd.

Now perhaps you are right and 300 models would not be required, but what would be faster? Just getting down to it and creating the 300 models, or creating 4 or 5 and pain-stakingly tweaking them while cross referencing every change of the mesh against every single head/hair combo there is? I'm a modder of games myself, and i know neither is really an appealing solution to this problem.

This is not really related to my point, but i've typed it now so.. -----
There's also this fact to take into consideration - they have to patch the game and roll out an update to everyone to fix a problem like this. I don't think i'm dramatising to say that a patch for a game as big as GW is a very large undertaking, puts stress on the servers and is generally not an easy thing to do. If i were in A-net's shoes i'd need a better reason than a bit of clipping to roll out an update to hundreds and hundreds of thousands of customers.
This ties to the vabbi thing as well, would you expect them to recompile the entire vabbi area in question an then roll an update for one polygon that's slightly obtrusive?
---------------------------------

Things have priority, and unfortunately this blindfold isn't one of them right now. It might be in the future and i hope that it is, but it is not ok to flame anet because it's not quite correct for your specific class/hair combo RIGHT NOW. You guys are getting this stuff for a fraction of the cost of most MMO's, remember. You shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth.

One good reason i can think of is that they have more pressing things to alter than minor bugs. PVP skill balance, expansion content, GW2. I could go on, but you get my drift. Small bugs < balance/expansions/large bugs.

I agree with some of your points for sure and flaming anet isn't really my intent, nor do I think it really is the intent of the OP being a secondary english language speaker, even if it came off that way to some of us.

That being said the 2 bugs I listed should have been fixed by now. These are not things a programmer must fix, as you well know from doing mods yourself, this is something that the art department should have gone in and taken care of and then had rolled out in one of the smaller patches or just a simple download like we get when entering an area we've never been in before.

Hardly that much stress on the servers due to the way Anet implemented these nice on the fly patches

I agree that it would surely take more work to fix the headgears then the armor part i mentioned or the rogue polygon in the staircase.

To an earlier poster: It is very possible as you mentioned due to the hairstyles showing that this is why you can't color the headband. Good call on that. Probably the same for the asuran glasses.

Lady Ana Stacia · Oct 07, 2007, 03:21 PM // 15:21

Gaile has already stated that there is a limitation with the blindfold not dying, which is due to the fact it doesn't replace the hair such as helmets etc...

So that is fully understandable

illreris · Oct 08, 2007, 01:00 AM // 01:00

add #5 blindfold screenshot

Elruid · Oct 08, 2007, 02:10 AM // 02:10

Looks like their QA were wearing blindfolds.

Kashrlyyk · Oct 08, 2007, 04:41 AM // 04:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Ana Stacia

Gaile has already stated that there is a limitation with the blindfold not dying, which is due to the fact it doesn't replace the hair such as helmets etc...

So that is fully understandable

Mesmer masks don´t replace the hair too, but are dyable.

NoXiFy · Oct 08, 2007, 05:02 AM // 05:02

...it looks ugly on a monk anyway. imo. buy spectacles. (although its really anooying to grind for the title...)

Karyuu · Oct 08, 2007, 05:03 AM // 05:03

The Mesmer masks were made for the mesmer meshes and class alone. Gaile also said this.

Kashrlyyk · Oct 08, 2007, 05:18 AM // 05:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karyuu

The Mesmer masks were made for the mesmer meshes and class alone. Gaile also said this.

And only then they can be dyed? They could have done that for the blindfolds too.

Karyuu · Oct 08, 2007, 05:33 AM // 05:33

I don't think either one of us knows the engine and art system in detail, so we can't truly guess what they could or could not have done. IMO, the Anet team is neither lazy nor untalented, and some things may really be either out of their system capabilities or time schedules.

Aranox · Oct 08, 2007, 08:31 AM // 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karyuu

I don't think either one of us knows the engine and art system in detail, so we can't truly guess what they could or could not have done. IMO, the Anet team is neither lazy nor untalented, and some things may really be either out of their system capabilities or time schedules.

While I agree with you, it's still a bit frustrating to not know the exact reason when by my own logic (and based on the info given) I can't see the problem.

Appearantly blindfolds cannot be dyed because they are not helmets, and helmets could not be used as a base because it would remove the hair.
Quite logical and understandable, but I don't understand what they *did* use as a base for the blindfold (and asura glasses I presume).
The mesmer masks *can* be dyed, the assassin masks can also be dyed. Why not use these as a base? So far the only thing I can think of that was used as a base for the blindfold is either the elementalist/paragon headpiece, or they created a whole new type of object instead of basing it on an already existing type of headpiece.
That assassin and mesmer masks are made especially for those classes and cannot be used for other classes also seems a bit odd to me. Scar patterns were only usable by monks and necro's before EotN, yet now everyone can have a woad. Ok, these are textures, not models, but it simply doesn't make sense that classes are hardcoded into the base headpiece objects.
Anyway, all I can do is speculate at this point. I just wish I had some more info to help me understand the reason it can't be dyed. While I do believe A-net that there are technical limitations, I'm simply too curious to know exactly what those limitations are. It's frustrating to not understand. Soo many questions...
What I wouldn't give to get my hands on the GW source code :P
But that'll never happen

Karyuu · Oct 08, 2007, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Indeed, I too would really like to know more details about the system, because my mind also does that "Okay... this makes sense in a way, but..." thing :]

Having the blindfolds offered in multiple colors from the collector doesn't seem impossible though, keeping in mind then that you'll only see default dyes and not combinations (too many of those!). But Anet has often added content in after a release, so I might remain hopeful until GW2.