Curse

Killed u man · Sep 27, 2007, 11:10 AM // 11:10

Situation:

You're playing PvE, you've nearly set-up a FoW team, checked all skill bars, you just got your last monk, check his bar, and everything is A-OK. You enter the mission, and somehow got whiped in 1 minute, seeing that last monk still alive, casting Protective Spirit, Healing Breeze, and offcorse SoJ.

Now, how bad is your frustration, knowing this guy changed his bar, even after you made him ping it, after you setting up for half an hour... This is what I want to start a thread about, frustration on Guild Wars; and where it takes us... (This situation did NOT occure to me, I don't play PvE, just an example)

I've never seen a thread like this, used search, and no-one ever seems to want to talk about frustration, and even hate, on Guild Wars. I'm not planning on letting this turn into a flame thread! What I want to create is a thread in which people can give their own thoughts on HOW far they think frustration should go withitn the limits of a game...

Would you really want to hurt/slap that Solo Monk, after ruining your FoW run? Would you sometimes really want to slap BNET for their, sometimes, redicilous skill balances? Would you really want to "fight" with that guy who just ganked you in HoH?

Anyways, this thread is supposed to be a discussion WITH examples, don't start an discussion if you can't back-up your own vision...

Anyways, here is MY EXPERIENCE with frustration in Guild Wars:

Playing alot of PvP, it often happens I get rolled by other teams, sometimes, it gets really frustrating. During 6v6, I playing GW alot more, and I remember actually shouting on vent, (Broken Tower holding style btw) because someone didn't put op Ward of Stability, thus giving the other team a free gale on our ghostly... The second I saw the defeat letters on I raged at that guy, I raged badly... I feel bad now about ever "caring" so much about a game, but at that time, I actually wanted to kill him, for being so "stupid" not to put up Ward of Stability...

Now, I cooled down alot, sure frustration is still around, but I usually disband the team if I know we're not going to go anywhere... There is some other people in the past, I raged at, that really hate me now. If I got a penny for everytime I got ganked in HoH, by a guy who hates me, I would be rich, believe me! Now, do these people really HATE me? Sometimes, I honestly think some people in this game take PvP way to serious, like I did a long time ago. I wonder if these people would really have the same feelings in real life, if I was on the other side of the table...

Anyways, that's my story, open for discussion now, feel free to comment/express feelings on this issue/ give own experiences?

Cebe · Sep 27, 2007, 11:26 AM // 11:26

I never "Hate"...it's a game, you can never tell what the player on the other end is thinking. When I PvP, which is mostly Alliance Battles these days, I plan not only for the well balanced battles where our team of 4 comes across another team of 4, but also for when an Assassin sees you running back to your group after having been ressed, and you're on your own and he thinks..."I'm havin' ya" - which is inevitable. On the odd occaision the "1v1" fanatic wins I tend to shout at the computer screen, but I'm not just cross with him, as if I were paying more attention I could have stopped it...he just exploited my lazyness. When such a thing happens, however, I tend to make a point of killing said 'Sin as many times as I can, whenever I come across him, but when the game is finished...it's all sort of "meh", and falls into a big pool of swirling ...stuff... that doesn't matter any more.

There's no point in holding lasting vendeta's against players who get one over you in the game. Sometimes I can be a real ******* to some people, not through being rude, but by, say, diverting Blessed Signet on the monk who's bonding the gates in Fort Aspenwood. Sometimes, and these are the real gems, you are able to enter conversation with your foe, and both of you know you're playing the game for fun, and a conversation begins:

Monk: Argh, damn Mesmer, stop diverting me! lol
Me: Just doin' my job

Monk: ^^
Monk: Can you do it a little less well?
Me: Well I'd love to, but that might mean you'd win!

Monk: True, gg.

It's the players that recognise you win some, you lose some, that make any form of PvP a nice experience, moreover, those who can have a chuckle about it. As cross as I might be against someone who wins when they try to "have me 1v1"...if they deserved their victory, it's all good.

Killed u man · Sep 27, 2007, 11:48 AM // 11:48

Yep, agreed on most of it. But sometimes frustration really gets high, expecially when you, for example, got rolled in HA by a spiritway, or in GvG by a bloodspike, and then the people on the other team say GG... I mean, sure, loosing to spiritway once is acceptable, but you know, facing the same build over and over and over and over (for 3 months now) gets really frustrating... I know that I'm a better player than these people playing spiritway, or any zero-brainer build for that matter, but still, I hate loosing to that same build over and over again. Sometimes I really have got to take a few days break from GW, cuz I'm so tired of the Imba-ness...

Star Gazer · Sep 27, 2007, 12:35 PM // 12:35

yet another reason for 7 heros...sigh...

william1975 · Sep 27, 2007, 12:47 PM // 12:47

With PvP i don;t really have a problem, I see others as either being better players/better builds than me, or i'm just a tad bit slow that day.

Over the last few days i have begun to hate some aspects of the game like Polymock. Don't get me wrong i do actually enjoy playing it sometimes, but when I screw up i really let loose at the computer coz I know i shouldn't have cocked up so badly. Playing Polymock on its own is fun, what gets me angry is when you have the quest up to gain your new piece and skills, and you just can't beat it.

I suffered the same problem doing Bison's tournament, when gettign to the end and failing, though i finally found a build capable of defeating him and the preceding opponents, what made it worse was when i wanted to fight particular opponents to either gaint hem as a hero or get Zho's book or the green items you can get. Its annoying when you don't see them for 10 tournaments and infuriating when you get beat by Bison repeatedly in the quest.

These situations are bad simply because they are difficult to beat and normaly i would break from that but when i want somethign i keep goign till i get it. Which just makes me madder

Cebe · Sep 27, 2007, 12:54 PM // 12:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by william1975

I suffered the same problem doing Bison's tournament, when gettign to the end and failing, though i finally found a build capable of defeating him and the preceding opponents, what made it worse was when i wanted to fight particular opponents to either gaint hem as a hero or get Zho's book or the green items you can get. Its annoying when you don't see them for 10 tournaments and infuriating when you get beat by Bison repeatedly in the quest.

I feel your pain. I gained 12 Bison Tournament Tokens trying to get Zho's book. >.<

Who knew the 13th try would be the lucky one?

zwei2stein · Sep 27, 2007, 12:57 PM // 12:57

Infamous change-a-bar-prick strikes again, eh.

That is propably lowest of low that GW player can do. There is likely no worse thing one can do to party.

I wish there was skillbar-lock that party leader can enforce during final bar checking, just like you cant change skills during mission entry countdown.

EternalTempest · Sep 27, 2007, 01:04 PM // 13:04

Screenshot and report to anet.
Once there enough compliants, Anet will take action.

Also, add them to you your ignore list and move on.

zwei2stein · Sep 27, 2007, 01:09 PM // 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

I feel your pain. I gained 12 Bison Tournament Tokens trying to get Zho's book. >.<

Who knew the 13th try would be the lucky one?

My mesmer, first time in tournament, oponents in this order:

Kahmu
Zho
Alesia
Xandra
Zethuka.

lucky, eh (ok, i had to redo since i didnt take zethuka hron with me and it took 7 tokens to get him again, but still ...)

wilebill · Sep 27, 2007, 01:10 PM // 13:10

GW is just a game. And people are just people.

With PUGs, always carry along Sense of Humor, Tolerance, and Urbanity.

Antheus · Sep 27, 2007, 01:14 PM // 13:14

This frustration and hate - they are usually covered by social skills.

You aren't annoyed with GW, but with other people. People are human, they make mistakes, they are annoying, they don't do what you want them to.

This isn't GW problem. In real life, people lie, murder, steal and cheat. Some enjoy it, and do it just for fun.

But in real life, you cannot run with heroes. In this case, the only solution is to learn to deal with it.

Sadly, through frustration and anger, your attitude, even if not intended, will affect others. When on vent, there'll be a hint of anger in your voice, slight irritation, unenjoyment, making others get just a bit less excited, or even annoyed as well. When someone does raise their voice however, the game is over, they lose respect, and everyone else will say: ef this.

It's a game. Nothing that happens in there, especially nothing so trivial, should be getting to you. What sucks, is what happened to the other guy, who had to watch someone log in with his stolen account, and delete his FoWs. Now that sucks.

In PvP, two teams enter, one team loses. In FoW, favor is always available, entry costs measly 1k.

It's a game. The very second it stops being that, log out, take a deep breath, and take a little break. It's simply not worth losing nerves over it. Because on internet, nobody hears you scream, and if they do, they just don't care. So you're only frustrating yourself.

Quote:

Screenshot and report to anet.
Once there enough compliants, Anet will take action.

Hahahaha. Ah..... good one.

Quote:

With PUGs, always carry along Sense of Humor, Tolerance, and Urbanity.

On forums, using PvE-only skill Flameshield also helps.

Etta · Sep 27, 2007, 01:21 PM // 13:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilebill

With PUGs, always carry along Sense of Humor, Tolerance, and Urbanity.

Or you can just not pugs. Why should anyone put up with anything if they don't want to?

Goldleader · Sep 27, 2007, 01:45 PM // 13:45

There have been times when I have become angry, but none compare to one trick low life players like to pull.

I HATE it when you finally assemble a group of players for a mission and then half-way through the mission, someone just decides to go AFK. No warning, no message...nothing. They just stand there in place for the ENTIRE mission. Almost like they want us to do the heavy lifting and help them get to the new area with no effort.

The worst part is when it is a monk who pulls the stunt. Now the group is faced with a difficult decision, start over, or try to continue on without the 2nd monk.

I've been pretty ticked in the past when this happened. When our 3rd monk pulled this stunt in The Deep, we managed to beat the area, but it took an extra hour to do it (we had to slow down our pace considerably). I was so pissed afterwards that I took a week off from GW. I can't say I was ever angry enough to hurt someone...just pissed that this person wasted my time.

milias · Sep 27, 2007, 01:49 PM // 13:49

I have to agree with the other posters. It's just a game. That said, yes, it can get somewhat frustrating with the way that some people act sometimes. But hey, that's just a fact of life. You get people like that in real life, too. And just like in real life, you have the option of never having anything to do with them again, and that's what your ignore list is for. The important thing is, don't let them get to you. If you let them, then they've accomplished what they set out to do, which is to annoy the heck out of you. Don't play into their hands. And yes, report them to ANet whenever you can.

Hope this helps!

Chthon · Sep 27, 2007, 02:18 PM // 14:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Infamous change-a-bar-prick strikes again, eh.

That is propably lowest of low that GW player can do. There is likely no worse thing one can do to party.

I wish there was skillbar-lock that party leader can enforce during final bar checking, just like you cant change skills during mission entry countdown.

I'd settle for an automatic "Such-and-Such has changed his/her skillbar" whenever a player changes after pinging.

TabascoSauce · Sep 27, 2007, 02:32 PM // 14:32

The following are all my opinions, and may or may not be accurate.

I think that a unique culture of expectations has emerged from this game. I do not know if it is a chicken or egg problem, that the game encourages the culture or the culture naturally seeks the game, but GW definitely has a very impatient, "must succeed" attitude amongst the players.

I used to write it off as just the way things are - make a game that emphasizes competition, you get competitors.

The game itself is based on completing tasks - finish this quest, cap this skill, go to that outpost, do this mission, wash rinse repeat. That gives us a discrete marker in the sand to gauge progress. That is the only marker we have - as the usual marker of character Level has been eliminated from the game, and we substitute these other ones in their place, at least for PvE.

I think that the expected answer in other MMOs, which would be gain a level or two and come back, is not an option in GW. A better plan would be to go cap skills and change your build, but you will never get more hit points beyond level 20.

I think that the specific task nature of the game has synergy with the impatient nature of humanity. The tasks, and the inevitable small percentage of loudmouthed arrogant players boasting of whipping right through things has helped to create an in-game a belief that failure is shameful, in any form.

That is why I get so mad when someone comes on these forums and posts that they are having trouble in PvE, commonly in an angry way, and immediately get attacked by other posters here. It takes bravery to post that you are having problems, and to immediately get attacked is a symptom of the problems I am talking about here - failure is shameful, and you must get past the next marker as fast as possible, or be humiliated. That is why the poo-flinging monkeys come out - they have bought into the culture of impatience, competitiveness, (even in PvE, looks like) and ridicule for those who are not passing those markers on time and on target.

Where we got this notion of speed being so important for a game where there are no monthly fees, I have no idea. Maybe someone else has the insight into that. I can say that PvP has no reward structure for losing, so winning has become paramount. There are good points and bad points to that, and if the game designers wanted a competitive environment without (excessive) elitism and ridicule, then they have done a fairly credible job - I have played games with players who have worse attitudes.

But there are some odd exceptions. I have not been for a while so do not know how it is going now, but before when getting Kurz/Lux faction was so in demand that many threads on here were about "Leavers", there was another thread about how players could use the "roll" function to optimize AB, on even the Kurz quit, and odd the Lux quit. That way the percentage of winning battles over time goes up for everyone - it is basic math, really, since the losers do not spend time, well, losing.

There was a heated debate, most consisting of "that is cheating" versus "it is more efficient".

I think that is a bit of a fundamental difference between players who have a PvP mindset, and players who have a PvE mindset. The PvP players, not to disparage the notion since it is a fundamental property of competitive games, want to see a winner and a loser. The PvE players, well, they do not mind as much, the everybody winning part. The /roll discussion for AB was a PvE players idea to solve the problem of built-in inefficiency for faction gain in AB. I thought it was sheer brilliance, but I am more of a PvE player. The same property goes for the wintersday events, when ANet set up a competitive event for doing emotes and such to have players compete for the hats. The PvE answer, since they are not stuck in the win/lose paradigm, was also brilliant - that odd districts go for grenth, and even for dwayna. Everybody gets the hats with minimum inefficiency. I know for a fact that ANet did not really anticipate this reaction, but did nothing to stop it.

So yes, I believe that GW has a unique culture that encourages the competitive side of its players, by setting up PvP to be such an important part of the game, and not have any reward structure for the losers. That of course will result in what we are seeing now - winning is everything. Once again, there are good and bad points to having that dynamic, and shows in the communities of this game versus another one where it is not so central, say LotRO. Those people beef about not being able to mine resource nodes from horseback, which is a vastly different scale of complaint than here, where the game is ending for the last time every few days or so.

But recently, the situation has degenerated, with ANet announcing the last game for GW1, which necessitates losing everything you have worked on and start fresh with GW2. I think that has put a real burr in the caps of players, particularly the ones who have a lot invested in the game. I am expecting that we have not bottomed out, BTW.

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

Edit - add the word excessive for clarity above

Terra Xin · Sep 27, 2007, 03:21 PM // 15:21

I really don't have the time to care anymore, I only want to surround myself with good natured people, and I have more fun that way. If someone treats another person like shit, then I don't want to know them... or I'll flame them hard and forget about them the next day, seriously.

Mordakai · Sep 27, 2007, 03:23 PM // 15:23

There was a whole thread about "biggest jerk" you've enountered to something...

some pretty dreadful (and some funny) stories in there. As long as millions of people are playing a game, there will be hate.

zwei2stein · Sep 27, 2007, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by TabascoSauce

...
That is why I get so mad when someone comes on these forums and posts that they are having trouble in PvE, commonly in an angry way, and immediately get attacked by other posters here. It takes bravery to post that you are having problems, and to immediately get attacked is a symptom of the problems I am talking about here - failure is shameful, and you must get past the next marker as fast as possible, or be humiliated. That is why the poo-flinging monkeys come out - they have bought into the culture of impatience, competitiveness, (even in PvE, looks like) and ridicule for those who are not passing those markers on time and on target.
...

To be fair, most of such threads are whining: "It is too hard", and it usually demands nerf. Those players feel that error is in game, not in themselves. It does not take bravery to post such thing, only stupidity.

Any advice given in such thread is ignored or dismissed by its OP.

If you look at "i suck, help me out" threads, posters there are usually more helpfull. But someone posting "mission x sucks" is asking for trouble, and kinda deserves rough ride for being bad player:

Not being brave enough to ask for help, rather ask for nerf or just complain.

Its attittude of those posts that provokes poo-flinging.

TabascoSauce · Sep 27, 2007, 04:20 PM // 16:20

True. Not all of the "hep me" posts are actually seeking help, merely a vehicle to complain. I'd advocate that no response is superior to flinging poo, but that is another thread. I wonder - if those complainers can be labeled as type C personalities, does the nature of the game encourage normal people to type C behavior, or do type C personalities seek out this game?

Thanks!
TabascoSauce