Curse

Longasc · Oct 09, 2007, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

Found WoW players far more helpful. EVE went as far as to create a special newb corporation and chat channel.

WoW, EQ and many other games make socialization so much easier. In fact this is their main difference to GW, and I think the heavily instanced nature is to blame for this.

I think this is the reason for their "bigger" instances in GW2.
They might become like WoW zones - Duskwood, Elwynn, or whatever they are called. With a zone chat and dozens of players in the zone.

Except Vizunah and Unwaking Waters, GW is always a 1 party game, and this party can consist of 1 player and 7 henchies.

@ChaoticCoyote: My best friend is playing WoW, and several of my other friends, too. Makes me always sad, as I do not like it as much as they do. Little chance to make them GW players.

ChaoticCoyote · Oct 09, 2007, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

I wanna join your family

Heh, I met my wife gaming, back in the old pen-and-paper days of RuneQuest and AD&D... the daughters grew up using computers since they were in diapers (the oldest is now 18).

My wife leaving GW was a real blow; we liked buddy gaming a lot. However, my wife doesn't play often-enough to have built up decent heroes, and she isn't interested in running a hero team anyway. So in the more difficult areas, we were forced to use three stupid, badly-designed henchmen (since I can only bring three heroes myself.)

We have much more fun buddy gaming in WoW and LotRO, where henchmen don't exist and aren't required.

ANet's choices since last December have driven us away from the game. They prefer to promote class discrimination, cookie-cutter builds, and difficulty-by-steroids over clever game design and supporting solo and buddy gamers.

Such is life -- fortunately, there are other games.

Gigashadow · Oct 09, 2007, 08:11 PM // 20:11

In Guild Wars, there is no real reputation that follows players around. You'll almost never encounter the same person twice. Since there is no accountability for being bad or for treating other people like shit, people have no incentive to change their ways.

If people could actually accumulate bad reputations, and end up getting blacklisted by the community (as happens to ninja looters in mmos), behavior would improve.

Gli · Oct 09, 2007, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaoticCoyote

ANet's choices since last December have driven us away from the game. They prefer to promote class discrimination, cookie-cutter builds, and difficulty-by-steroids over clever game design and supporting solo and buddy gamers.

What's wrong with GW's buddy gaming? I don't think there's a lot you can't do with just two people.

Malice Black · Oct 09, 2007, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gigashadow

In Guild Wars, there is no real reputation that follows players around. You'll almost never encounter the same person twice. Since there is no accountability for being bad or for treating other people like shit, people have no incentive to change their ways.

If people could actually accumulate bad reputations, and end up getting blacklisted by the community (as happens to ninja looters in mmos), behavior would improve.

Spawn camping is fun

You do have a valid point though.

stretchs · Oct 09, 2007, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Just like all games there is always going to be an ebb and flow to a games players. There will be players quit and new players start. As long as new content comes about it will continue this way. The problem comes about with gw is that now that there will be no content for possibly 2 yrs, the community will indeed shrink. The game does now cater less to groups than it did in the past, but allows for the casual gamer to be able to pick up the game and play most of the areas without having to spend hrs on end trying to find a competant group ( we have all been there ) Heros as many of you and myself have allowed for this ease of use but also has caused the community to be less one because of lack of interaction when you have these heros you can rely on 95% or more of pve. If you look back at Prophecies, you will see that most missions from the desert on minimum required you at least early on to bring other humans. Now if you need to do those, you can hero/henchway it with ease with a little knowledge and decent hero builds. As for the new chapters, with heros they have allowed people to circumvent any need for those parties on hard mish/quest because they would rather go with possible a little idiotic AI they could count on, over a possible total idiotic human that they have no clue if they got leroy or someone with a brain.

Malice Black · Oct 09, 2007, 08:17 PM // 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dooks

What an unusual reply from Malice Black...

lol why?

I screw around as much as anyone else, if not more..just ask my guildies

As for spawn camping..it's naughty, but I never took WoW all that seriously so I didn't really care..

ChaoticCoyote · Oct 09, 2007, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

What's wrong with GW's buddy gaming? I don't think there's a lot you can't do with just two people.

My wife doesn't want to build up or run heroes. I can only run three heroes. Hence, we're stuck with three dumb, annoying, gimped henchmen.

Okay, we could buy GW:EN for my wife's account and get her a few level 20 heroes quick -- but frankly, she just isn't interested any more. She'd found a fun play style for the 2-3 hours a week she can play; ANet nerfed that playstyle into oblivion. Yes, she could find another build; no, she doesn't want to. Why should she have to change her PvE game just because Izzy wants to speed up PvP?

It's all about fun. This is not work -- it is supposed to be FUN. And for casual players, that doesn't mean grinding to equip heores or learning a new build every time ANet does a "balance" update.

Yes, I can bludgeon my way through normal mode with henchmen -- that doesn't make it FUN.

Karyuu · Oct 09, 2007, 08:42 PM // 20:42

It's subjective. There are casual players like you who no longer consider the GW environment a fun place to spend some time in, and there are casual players like me who enjoy everything GW has to offer, regardless of nerfs or grinds or henchmen. Personally, I think being forced to think outside your usual build can be pretty interesting, too.

Addressing the thread title, every game goes through these cycles, and they become more and more pronounced as the game ages. It's really nothing unique or noteworthy.

The Shelf · Oct 09, 2007, 08:54 PM // 20:54

I haven't read this whole thread, but for what it's worth, I've actually just recently gotten back into Guild Wars after nearly a year of inactivity. I played since the betas, quit a month or two after the game came out, played again for about a month when Nightfall came out (my brother bought it, not I this time), and now I'm playing again now that GW:EN came out. I still haven't gotten Factions, but I may when the price drops. I've actually had more fun playing GW:EN than Nightfall. I think the promise of these new races is what really has me interested in it again. I have high hopes that GW2 will become what GW1 should have been from the start, but only time will tell.

Esprit · Oct 09, 2007, 09:11 PM // 21:11

I hardly play anymore, and if I do play it's usually with a specific group of people, doing some sort of high-end PvE. I imagine it's like any game you play continuously over a long period of time, most people will lose interest if the innovation from the developers dies.

The fact that Guild Wars is free online is probably what keeps most players online anymore. If the game were subscription based, I'd have quit a long time ago.

Gwmaster · Oct 09, 2007, 09:22 PM // 21:22

its been 1 month i didn't play, i downloaded the client today, 200000 files..., logged in, walked around in gwen, logged out, created a ranger in pre, did the first quests=, and stopped playing again. I just cant stand playing this game for more than few minutes before getting bored to death, guess those 28 months are enough for me. I also bought wow, and started playing (since all the people i know play it), when you play with friends its awesome as hell, people are far more helpful than in guildwars...sometimes im just walking and then i see some mage cast a buff on me for no reason and i was like....O_o "thx".Btw, i dont know why some people say that higher players can kill you and will wait next to you to kill you every time, i was in a town with my mage and saw 10-15 lvl 60+ killing every npc,(i was with one of my friends who play that day) and i said to myself "this is it, these guys are going to camp and kill me im screwed" but hey they didn't since they cant unless im the one who attack them, their names are in yellow (wich is neutral i think) so, so far ive had great time with WoW. mmm i think i got a bit away from the subject here.

Well anyways, when i logged on gw, there was probably 6 people online in my guild, 1 in my f list. There was quite allot of people in gwen outposts, but everyone was playing with heroes. The social part of this game is IMO dead, and its one of the reasons i see old players leave. And also, there is no real accomplishment in gw. Anyways, these days i play WoW...a game i used to hate for no real reason, its fun even tho im not a big fan of the graphics. I might buy gw2 so i can make a fresh new start, i aint going to use the HoM bonuses either since i will just spoil my fun.

I suggest that they make an expansion called GW:Back to the past, wich will update your client to the first 3-4 months (even before sorrows furnace update) those days IMO are the best days this game had, even tho there was some bugs and stuff.

Goldleader · Oct 09, 2007, 09:40 PM // 21:40

I have noticed that things changed a bit recently. Part of the blame falls on the original model of guild wars. While most games come out with expansion packs, Guild Wars came out with standalones. Expansion packs = content for everyone. Standalones create some content for old players and some content for new players.

I think Guild Wars is proving that some form of a grind is needed to keep players going. At the same time, we all know the problems/complaints that grinding also brings with it.

I personally thought the "new game every 6 months" concept was brilliant. So why did they scrap it? Something tells me we’d still see the format if it was profitable. The fact that they decided to leave the format, even though GW2 is over a year away says it didn’t generate enough money to keep it going.

I do think GW2 was a good idea, let’s face it this game could use a graphical upgrade, as well as some fresh new ideas. But how in the world will they keep GW2 alive? People don’t want to grind, but they also don’t want to run out of things to do. How the heck do you balance that out? Seems impossible to me if PvP can’t do it (which clearly is the case). PvP didn’t take off like I think we all expected it would when GW1 was still in beta. It seems like PvE is still the core of the game.

Housing isn’t a bad way to pump lots of extra hours into a game…just look at 4,000 year-old Ultima Online. Perhaps GW2 needs to also consider adding crafting to keep people busy…but who wants another WoW clone?

Kalendraf · Oct 09, 2007, 09:41 PM // 21:41

To the best of my knowledge, out of my original guild, there are only 3 of us that actively play. My current guild has diminished from nearly 100 to under a dozen. Of all the names in my friends list, it is rare to ever see more than 1 or 2 playing at any given time. So yes, there is a constant attrition in players.

My own playing time has been heavily impacted by my work schedule. I once averaged 20-30 hours a week, but now I'm lucky to get in 5 hours in a week. It's not a factor of other games stealing my playtime. It's just that I don't have that amount of freetime anymore. Several other former GW players that I know face the same problem. We work and have families, and it's tough to make time for gaming.

In addition, several of the things that drew us to GW as casual gamers have changed since the beginning. GW is no longer a casual game. We simply do not have the time it requires to tackle multi-level dungeons or grind for titles. Some casual players I know that would play GW, don't play it any longer specifically because of those kinds of changes.

I do know of some other new players that have recently gotten the game and play it regularly, so there is hope for keeping up the ranks. However, in a few more years, it seems likely that there will be fewer and fewer new recruits, due to competition from other games...including the forthcoming GW2

I MP I · Oct 09, 2007, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Short answer, yes. After 28 months of playing, doing all the same things over and over with multiple characters makes me want to puke. The stupid grind, lack of interesting content, crappy rewards, and nerfs makes people (regardless of how long they've been playing) quit. Semi-retired atm currently looking to buy/build a new high-end pc. I miss the people I played with (not the actual game). Planning on returning when I get a new pc and hopefully Anet will have added Hardmode for EotN.

Corwin_Andros · Oct 09, 2007, 10:19 PM // 22:19

It's like a lot of people have been saying. The game is over 2 years old and realistically there have only been content additions in all that time and no real changes to the game mechanics. The most innovative thing added was the "mission" formats and dungeons in GW:EN.

I've never ever gotten bored playing this game, but I've certainly gotten burned out from over playing a few times. I'll play like a fiend, every spare minute I can squeeze in, for weeks or a few months and then taper off and go do something else for a bit and come back for another round.

The thing of it is, ANet apparently never intended the PVE part of this game to be as popular or long term as it has been. They've taken steps to add long term things into the game to give the obsessive 2k+ hour players things to do, but the speed at which they can create content and still progress on the new projects is limited. The game engine and core design just isn't really made for ultra long term players. That people have found the game enjoyable enough to invest that vast amounts of time that some of us have done, probably amazes the devs to no end. Afterall PVE was intended to really only be the gateway to PVP in the first place.

All that really means is that getting tired of the game after 2 years isn't at all unusual. That its taken so long for that to happen in so many cases is astounding. The whole point of the game design was that you play it for a while then go PVP or put it aside til the next chapter or whatever came along.
THAT was the original intention and given that, we were practically expected to find other things to play or do, rather than obsess over the limited content.

Right now I've got over 20 games installed on my pc. GW is the only "MMO" type game. I have yet to see another one that I'd be willing to spend money to play every month, although the amount itself isn't an issue. I can pay for any of the current market's games with less than an hour's pay. But when GW gets to be too much I play shooters, rts, or even other rpgs and come back when I'm ready.

Lately I've been having another go at Sacred (D2 knockoff that is quite fun) along with GW, because my GW playing partner can't get GW to connect for some reason. The one thing I notice that Sacred, Like D2, and most MMO's and rpgs in general is more about the equipment rather than story. I'll play for hours hoping to get a set item or unique drop and have gold falling out of my ears. I guess that is really the biggest difference for me when it comes to GW. I don't have to worry about getting stronger items.. I already have those and can actually play just to do the story line, missions, and quests, and my ability to get through those is directly related to the builds I am using rather than the toys I play with. It's the best gaming setup I've ever actually encountered, which why I keep coming back and have invested more time in GW than I have any other game I've played in 30 years of playing games on console or pc.

So even though people come and go, it'll be a long while before GW "DIES" and I hope they truly do bring over the best GW has to offer into GW2. Gods only know how I'll manage playing both. lol I do think thought that when GW2 does come out, and if the small benifits we are to receive from our HoM are cool enough, that there'll be a big resurge in GW1 for a while when people go back and start maxing out titles again or adding the things they need to add to the hall to get the goodies they really want.

Sorry if that got too rambly.. I just got a tooth pulled yesterday and am writing to you from Vicodin Land today

Omniclasm · Oct 09, 2007, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalendraf

In addition, several of the things that drew us to GW as casual gamers have changed since the beginning. GW is no longer a casual game. We simply do not have the time it requires to tackle multi-level dungeons or grind for titles. Some casual players I know that would play GW, don't play it any longer specifically because of those kinds of changes.

Multi-Level dungeons are doable in about 45 minutes to 2 hours, depending on the dungeon and the ability of the players. Even if you only get a few hours to play a day, should still be enough to finish a dungeon.

I do agree that the endgame "content" of titles is really retarded.

Woop Shotty · Oct 09, 2007, 10:26 PM // 22:26

All the people I play with still play daily.

Stolen Souls · Oct 09, 2007, 10:36 PM // 22:36

Most of the few people I used to talk to regularly have either left for good or almost never play anymore, and when they do it's just to pop on for a few minutes to say hi. I find myself playing less and less lately, too. I used to play regularly, daily. But now it's just a half hour or so every few days. Things are just getting really boring.

Gli · Oct 09, 2007, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaoticCoyote

My wife doesn't want to build up or run heroes. I can only run three heroes. Hence, we're stuck with three dumb, annoying, gimped henchmen.

Well, that doesn't mean GW fails at providing good buddy style play. That's like complaining you can't win at tennis without a racket. The tools are there, you'll just have to grab them.