Curse

GloryFox · Oct 01, 2007, 04:40 PM // 16:40

So many good posts here, so little time this week to respond. Guild Wars has lost its vision, thats obvious now. ANet will simply not change to accommodate the recommendations and requests of its player base. Kurz/ Lux Faction skill for titles farming is the best example I can give to prove that. I have also focused on one character now, my paragon, only to rediscover once again no one will take a paragon into the Elite GWEN mission.

PUG player base ignorance FTL!

/sigh Too much grind so little time. I cannot tell you how much that annoys me.

BUT HEY MINI PETS PEOPLE! (oh wait thats now just for one character)

Minipets FTL! now.

Star Gazer · Oct 01, 2007, 04:41 PM // 16:41

exactly rahja. and gw2 will be no end to this. sure, there MIGHT (they havent confirmed) be an auction house, but with it comes many downsides. One thing that drew me into guild wars was how little difference there was between veterans of MMOs and the newer players.

I, for one, was new to the whole MMO world. My brother plays Lineage II, WoW, Archlord, and a few others, and the more things he tells me about those games, the better I felt about Guild Wars and how it would fit into my family lifestyle. Waiting for hours on end to do a mission, having people wait until you die to steal your loot...its absurd. Guild Wars 2 might not have that, but they will have some of the fundamental designs of that concept. It is in NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM how Guild Wars was initially designed. This is one reason why they are losing a customer. They went to fulfilling everyones needs, to fulfilling the fan base of ex-WoWers, ex-Linagers, and ex-Archlorders. I am so saddened why they did this...Guild Wars was a great game. I do give them props for making a bad ass game at the beginning. It sucks that this game has turned into the stinkpile it is now: Cant farm, only grind, no players to do HM or DoA with, HA teams with R9+...it makes me sick.

Like you, I am also disappointed by the reskins of EVERY place of this game. There are no new enemies (except the dinos, but I could have sworn Ive seen them somewhere), no new zones, no new armor skins...I feel betrayed as well. I hope anet will expand on this for free...I have yet to see where atleast $15 went to all the redone material.

TabascoSauce · Oct 01, 2007, 04:45 PM // 16:45

In case anyone has missed this, recently Jeff Strain gave a speech at the GC developers conference, and has many interesting points to make. It is on the guildwars.com website, but here is a link for the lazy:

http://www.guildwars.com/events/trad...7/gcspeech.php

Of particular notice is the quote I personally have heard numerous designers and producers working on unreleased MMO projects describe their game in these terms: "It's like WoW, but..." I just shake my head when I hear this, because the team that is best poised to deliver a successful game that is an evolution of WoW is... well, the WoW team. They've got their thing, and they're good at it.

So, if everyone seems to agree that they are making GW 2 closer to WoW than GW 1, why are they making the obvious mistake?

Maybe all this is really a logical chain of events, the development of GW through the 3 campaigns and expansion, where they simply expected us to PvP in Prophecies, changed to encouraging us to PvP in Factions, then assumed that after all this time there were dedicated PvE players who would never PvP in Nightfall and made some game content specific for them, and lastly in GWEN made the game content 90% PvE. That is really a change of course for the game, and whether the lack of transition to PvP can be attributed to an unwelcoming and ill-mannered community, or an increasing commitment in cash for 4 games for new entrants to be competitive, or something altogether else entirely is moot at this point - PvP has too high an entrance bar for new players, so new blood is becoming increasingly scarce, and the PvP community seems to endorse shooting itself in the foot by resisting changes to make entry easier.

And of course, they seem to think that with 8 million subscribers to World of Grind, they must have something there. But as Strain says - do not try to emulate WoW, because WoW is the best entrant in the field.

I'm thinking the whole process seen from an outside viewpoint can be summed up with - Follow the Money.

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

DOCB22 · Oct 01, 2007, 04:48 PM // 16:48

amazing Rahja you are so spot on, I feel the same way. I want my Guild Wars back! this Grind Wars is making me look eles where. Grind Wars is NOT FUN! I will be holding off on buying GW2 if it's a WoW clone ill pass.
I'm suprized Gaile hasent chimed in with an offical ANET spin.

Angelic Upstart · Oct 01, 2007, 04:56 PM // 16:56

This has to be one of the best threads i have read on this forum, and for more than one reason, apart from the OP being spot on with his points, it has not descended into the normal shit fight of bickering and flaming.
The game has changed, since the halcyon days of prophecies, after two years and four chapters, it was bound to change.
But i personally think the change has not been for the better in a lot of cases, although i still play everyday, as does the missus, i have noticed my interest waning a little, for example i liked nothing better to mess around with my skill bars, to find the best build per profession for a particular area.I used to enjoy troll and griffon farming, i have 55'd all over the game, just for shits and giggles back then, for the fun of it.
But slowly the nerf bat struck time and time again and with each blow a little bit of what made this game, (for me at least) the best i have ever played, a little less fun.
The freedom this game used have has been curtailed quite a lot, and that is something i do not like, it feels to me that i am being rail roaded into an ever tightening, narrow alley.
Still though i continue to play, i still find ways of getting fun out of the game, even though it is for me getting more and more difficult to do so, but after two years of playing this game this is to be expected i guess, but Anet are speeding up the disenchantment factor for me, anyway.
Just my two cents ..

Brianna · Oct 01, 2007, 05:01 PM // 17:01

I've recently came to a conclusion, that this thread has made me see.

It's just the titles: for me. They've ruined everything, If you look at prophecies, go back.. Disable the hero tab in your interface, then think of the game and absorb it for what it originally was, being on any char you feel equal to everyone else.. but with titles about, you feel belittled/elite, I just think they should have never came.. cause look at the HoM, It's all about titles really, even though it would/could/should work without them. I'm sick of titles, I'm sick of having them around and not getting any benefits for my actual skill at the game. Now I know titles aren't required for everything, aside from a few things.. but come on guys lets just face it, they belittle people or make them elite, it's the face of the truth.

I will vouch like the rest, we want our Guild Wars back, the face of the game has changed too much, and only until now have I finally absorbed that.

But It wont happen, and I am not being sucked into this ''Vision'' of titles, and reaping benefits of them in Guild Wars:2, I'm not even buying it really, atleast not until I see where it goes after the release: Or if I get to play beta that will help some insight on my part. Because since Nightfall and GW:EN I am kicking myself in the butt for buying them, because I feel like I got ripped off.. I'd be better off with just Prophecies and Factions, And in all honesty the feeling of being ripped off from Guild Wars is strange, as I was so pleased with Prophecies when I bought it, I even got myself a second account.

So therefor I hold off Guild Wars 2: for now, that is my way of stopping this problem for myself.

Star Gazer · Oct 01, 2007, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOCB22

I'm suprized Gaile hasent chimed in with an offical ANET spin.

that, my friend, is where our "PR" rep fails: she fails to see people are upset. She chimes in on the threads (if there are any) "GOOD JOB ANET!" or "NEW MINI IDEA OMFOGMOMFOMG!"...but NEVER to any threads that are made with good sense and not outright flaming anet. I have lost all respect for gaile since factions came out: shes lazy, doesnt do her job, and fails to see what players actually want (besides mini pets). For a company that boasts its great staff for listening to the community, I want to see where they are at. I saw a thread on wednesday of last week regarding the HoS run, and on thursday and friday they were hit with nerfs. God forbid people actually have fun with something in this game. They are quick to nerf, but unable to see what people want. The irony.

Karia Mirniman · Oct 01, 2007, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Thanks Rahja, lots of good posts.

GW1 is fixable.

For the game designers : www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archives/000192.php

The gw:end

iridescentfyre · Oct 01, 2007, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

Unfortunately, making another dollar another day is all big companies seem to be about. There are few game studios left that listen to their fanbase, and don't change their game just because it doesn't satisfy the majority... but there are some, and it is those few that are respected for their dignity, not their public image. If dignity wisdom have a price, Arena Net is in financial trouble. Such a pity to see the game I once so enjoyed devolve into another run of the mill MMO. I sincerely hope that Arena Net comes to realize that being niche isn't bad, just like they started off as. I hope Guild Wars 2 sees the realization of this fact, and I wish them the best in their endeavors.

All companies are about making money. And in the culture we live in, who could blame them? They need money to live just as we do, and whether we accept it as truth or not, without money (or worse, debt) our financial lives are effectively over.

With that in mind, Anet compares very well to most game companies. Anet does implement things players ask for, when they can. They also actually read our forum posts and occasionally respond to them. I've never found another game company that does that—Sony sure as hell doesn't. You must put yourself in the shoes of the company.. Game companies need to find a balance between satisfying the majority, not pissing off the minority, and making sure the game works in both a real and economic sense.

The problem is not that Anet fails to see we're (read: you're) upset, the problem is that something cannot always be done about it. They accept that someone, or a small group of someones will be insatiable and never be happy with the game. That's true of all games.

GourangaPizza · Oct 01, 2007, 05:14 PM // 17:14

My question to ArenaNet is this: Why not give the community the tools to create their own adventures to share with others instead of wasting your time and valuable resources in creating content that pleases only the minority?

Afterall people's definition of 'addictive fun' differs greatly between individuals. Wouldn't it be smarter to just let them create their quests/missions for other players to complete with the utilities program given while you just sit back and do the 'moderation' of their custom content.

Perhaps I would be too thick to say this, but Arenanet should breakout from the mentality that developers should do all the creation of content. It is so strainous to even try to please half the population that are playing the game. And given that Guild Wars is a MMO, the process of creating the game should be a responsibility that the players should also bear.

Painbringer · Oct 01, 2007, 05:15 PM // 17:15

The only plus I see in grinding to title 5 for armor. Is you cannot buy your way to acquire it you have to do it yourself.

One nice thing is about Gwen (NO BOTS) at least I have not seen any as of yet.

Consumables don’t bother me at all if you want to spend the money for them go for it. Personally I really only have used then to raise my DP to fight an end boss. The experience is mine at least that is what I paid for. If it cheapens the experience then so be it.

iridescentfyre · Oct 01, 2007, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by GourangaPizza

My question to ArenaNet is this: Why not give the community the tools to create their own adventures to share with others instead of wasting your time and valuable resources in creating content that pleases only the minority?

Only the minority is pleased with Guild Wars? o rly? I've seen very successful games with a mere fraction of the active population in Eye of the North alone. I'm interested to find out what the source of your information is that makes you think only the minority is pleased.

Goldleader · Oct 01, 2007, 05:23 PM // 17:23

Excellent post. You do have several strong arguements for the development team at Anet changing direction.

In the original game, the goal was the beat the campaign and then create a new character and do it again.

The more recent campaigns have all introduced grinding, but it was Nightfall that introduced MANDATORY grinding. The fact that you needed a minumum amount of Sunspear experience to proceed in the storyline was a radical change from the earlier design for the game.

I have to agree that the playerbase is not as friendly as it probably should be, but you already identified the net cause. So much of the game can be beat solo, that many players try to just play with heros or henchmen, rather than group with other players. A great many people love this feature, but it does have its drawbacks as well.

I still believe that a good deal of the "unsocial" nature of the playerbase has to do with the lack of content for guilds. Players simply are not required to group with others, and there is little reason to play with a guild (unless you play PvP).

Guilds have the power to make the game more social, but only if better tools are provided. In-game messaging for people not logged on (in-game e-mail), an in-game calandar to schedule events, content created specifically for guilds (requiring groups), advantages for playing in a guild (more than just buying lockpicks for 1.2k)...all things that would help guild become more viable, and the playerbase more sociable.

Vl Vl D · Oct 01, 2007, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrath of m0o

Cry me a river...
You know how long it took me to grind/farm my FoW armor?
I just broke SIX THOUSAND hours and just recently purchased my second set of FoW armor. And no.. i dont buy online gold.. I farmed/traded every coin.
I think you can kill a few baddies for a week to get yours.

And as for the OP on Crappy reskinned armor...

Thank You Anet for not completly destroying a reason to get FoW armor.
I was a little dissapointed with some of the Nightfall armor, thinking it was really close to coming into competition with FoW.

This game suits multiple peoples playstyles...I have never played anygame as Complex and versitile a Guildwars, and i still consider it to be my favorite game.

Thank you for your post.Thank you for showing me how I mite be if I continue to wirte of my life playing this game for hours every day.
You dont impress me you make me want to up chuck.My hours disgust me to the point I cant play much more then one hour a day now.

Young Hero · Oct 01, 2007, 06:21 PM // 18:21

I agree with OP. But the decisions have been made and veterans like you and I have been long forgotten.

I made the mistake of pre-ording NF collectors edition.If I only knew that nerf was comming days before NF was going live.

So be it, the only way to fight back is-never ever buy another Anet product again. It really is that simple.
Eye of North and GW2 will never make it to my hard drive

Lord Sojar · Oct 01, 2007, 06:22 PM // 18:22

I logged in for 40 mins today. I spoke out and joked with people at the great temple of balthazar about ANET and the /report feature.

I have now been banned for 72 hrs for inappropriate language. Not once during my short login did I swear. I believe it is safe to assume Arena Net is all but lost.

I have a new term. Anetzis. Apparently, it is now against the rules to speak anything out against Arena Net or PlayNC, and if you do, expect a ban.

Bryant Again · Oct 01, 2007, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

I logged in for 40 mins today. I spoke out and joked with people at the great temple of balthazar about ANET and the /report feature.

I have now been banned for 72 hrs for inappropriate language. Not once during my short login did I swear. I believe it is safe to assume Arena Net is all but lost.

I have a new term. Anetzis. Apparently, it is now against the rules to speak anything out against Arena Net or PlayNC, and if you do, expect a ban.

Well...That kinda sucks.

I mean I've been banned 'bout three times now, but they were all unintended. Can't say I know how it feels to be banned for something you didn't do, or to be banned for something you *did* do but that they'd rather not say.

Gigashadow · Oct 01, 2007, 06:29 PM // 18:29

They've already stated GW2 will have at most 1 hero per player, and your skills will be reduced in power if you use one (or, you'll have more power if you don't have a hero, same thing). I think they realised heroes killed the social aspect of the game, which is one thing that makes these games sticky.

HardWonFame · Oct 01, 2007, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Very good post. But I disagree almost completely with you.

Bryant Again · Oct 01, 2007, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Sooo...

You were banned from using a different language. That or someone or some people are pretty dumb.