Curse

Milennin · Nov 14, 2007, 07:08 AM // 07:08

Some freaking idiot removed the changes to Assassins on the Wiki page...

Edit; Never mind, they're back.XD

Sekkira · Nov 14, 2007, 07:08 AM // 07:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike

I do but clearly you don't or won't understand our side of things.

PVE skill balance DOES MATTER. If the game is too easy people will get bored and quit and if its to hard they will do the same so IT DOES MATTER

So first you say nerfing is bad, but clearly here you're saying it's good because it makes the game harder.

CyberNigma · Nov 14, 2007, 07:12 AM // 07:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Lugosi, but you must understand, PvE is a STATIC game environment.

I have to disagree with you slightly here. What you say should be true, but that has never been the case in GW because of the very things we are discussing here.

I've heard the reasons over the past few years why people I played with were leaving. Many of them really DID want a static environment, but the environment, and our actions within the environment have been constantly changing with ever skill 'balance' needed, not just for PvE but also for PvP. Monks used to stay and fight, then a change (PvE admittedly) made them run and never stop when you hit them, then they changed it back. That's a good PvE change but there have been many changes because of skil balances on the PvP side. If it was static then i think it would be a nice and peaceful place.

Aerial Assault · Nov 14, 2007, 07:16 AM // 07:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Full Metal X

You could like run a SP->Black mantis combo with trampling ox, still get your imba damage in and the kd.

Umm ... NO you cant. Maybe with jungle strike in between, but it's still BS. I usually replace jungle strike with something with more utility, now I'm almost forced to use just to have a mediocre combo.

Spike · Nov 14, 2007, 07:19 AM // 07:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

Huh, yet they're still playing with Ursanway o-o

I have yet to have anyone ask me to bring this skill or been in a group that had any one useing it. So maybe I've been lucky

Yes some people like to play in god mode. But the vast majority of us like something harder. The trick is to find the happy medium that pleases most people most of the time.

CyberNigma · Nov 14, 2007, 07:24 AM // 07:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

For the purpose of skill balance, all that matters is the killing aspect of PvE. PvE skills and mechanics are 'balanced' against each other, but the reason they are largely irrelevant is due to the fact the AI will always lose anyways, because it is meant to.

The other aspects of PvE are not relevant to the issue of balance, or balance allocation between PvE and PvP.

Your wall of text about sunshine, roleplay, and lore really isn't relevant at all.

Well PvE is a package deal, not ala carte. PvP doesn't have the depth of PvE (which is good because when I want to play Halo 3 or Gears of War or QuakeWars now then I just want a shallow killing experience with their skill versus my skill - which is hard to map to an RPG PvE where it really isn't about your skill evidently, but rather the wording on the skill - at least until the next uber-build comes out).

The two should never have been mixed like this in the first place.

Since there aren't many skill balances needed for PvE in the near future (seeing as how the content has been released), separating all of the skills into a PvE version and PvP version may be a good idea, never to be re-integrated.

For people playing PvE, it won't be confusing because they will only really see their skills. For the PvP players, the same.

If you play both heavily, well I guess that's an added bonus to the game, keeping track which is which. As far as the devs, they'll really spend most of their time on the PvP side (since you say it needs the most balancing) and rarely on the PvE side.

In fact, without sides affecting the other side it should actually be easier for them to maintain.

arcanemacabre · Nov 14, 2007, 07:42 AM // 07:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

Which is okay. As said before, you basically have a godmode switch you can use if you wish, no-one complains about how overpowered it is. Yet if pet corpses stop becoming exploitable?

THE WHOLE UNIVERSE IS GOING TO DIE

Yes, because both make the game not fun. Let's reverse those: Nerf UB appropriately, reverse the pet corpse nerf.

Sekkira · Nov 14, 2007, 07:44 AM // 07:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

reverse the pet corpse nerf.

Why?

Seriously. Give me one good reason this change was bad.

Note: Good = Accurate, Valid.

Avarre · Nov 14, 2007, 07:45 AM // 07:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

That is because Ursanway is only GodMode to those that are already running those areas. For the "casual" players (well, those that aren't already running through the elite areas - be they non-elite players or classes that can not get into the Holy Trinity groups) it is a way they can complete it with a few deaths. It still isn't anywhere close to a "kill all button" and saying that over and over only degrades your opinion with those that aren't believers.

You do know that the 'Holy Trinity' is inefficient, and good players don't always run it right?

Right?

You don't need to rely on 'organized trinity' groups to succeed.

arcanemacabre · Nov 14, 2007, 07:51 AM // 07:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

Why?

Seriously. Give me one good reason this change was bad.

Note: Good = Accurate, Valid.

Already did, but I shall repeat. In areas where there are fewer to no corpses, it provides a body (or bodies in the case of multiple pets) that can be exploited. That in itself is not overpowered at all, and thus did not need a nerf, at least in PvE. Pet DP was added separately to PvP, and not applied to PvE, why is this not done the same way? As an added reason - it makes no sense and is a clunky solution.

Aside from PvP exploitation, which has no bearing on the mechanic in PvE, why was this change necessary? There shouldn't need to be a reason given to revert the mechanic but rather a reason given to why the mechanic needed to be changed.

Spike · Nov 14, 2007, 07:54 AM // 07:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

Which is okay. As said before, you basically have a godmode switch you can use if you wish, no-one complains about how overpowered it is. Yet if pet corpses stop becoming exploitable?

THE WHOLE UNIVERSE IS GOING TO DIE

A) People DO complain about how overpowed UB is. There is a massive thread about it on here.

B) Your missing the WHOLE point. The reason that thier is such a fuss about the pets corpses is that it DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE. It also goes against what anet have said about pets since the game started. Also if thier is a PVP problem like iway then why not fixed it IN PVP like they did with giveing DP to pets ONLY in pvp. If they said this was to stop B/P teams overpowering tombs and other places then I can see and understand people being annoyed but at least it makes sense. Doing it this way DOES NOT. Aslo it yet another example of a vocal minority (ie pvpers) geting something nerfed that a majority of players in the game (IE pvers) use.

EPO Bot · Nov 14, 2007, 07:54 AM // 07:54

I think a warior may finally see the tombs on the inside now. A good one that is.

blue.rellik · Nov 14, 2007, 07:55 AM // 07:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

Already did, but I shall repeat. In areas where there are fewer to no corpses, it provides a body (or bodies in the case of multiple pets) that can be exploited. That in itself is not overpowered at all, and thus did not need a nerf, at least in PvE. Pet DP was added separately to PvP, and not applied to PvE, why is this not done the same way? As an added reason - it makes no sense and is a clunky solution.

Aside from PvP exploitation, which has no bearing on the mechanic in PvE, why was this change necessary? There shouldn't need to be a reason given to revert the mechanic but rather a reason given to why the mechanic needed to be changed.

If you're relying on the occasional corpses in an area then you really need to reconsider your skill bar.

Sekkira · Nov 14, 2007, 07:55 AM // 07:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

Already did, but I shall repeat. In areas where there are fewer to no corpses, it provides a body (or bodies in the case of multiple pets) that can be exploited. That in itself is not overpowered at all, and thus did not need a nerf, at least in PvE. Pet DP was added separately to PvP, and not applied to PvE, why is this not done the same way? As an added reason - it makes no sense and is a clunky solution.

Listen very carefully:

A MINION MASTER IS NOT VIABLE IN EVERY AREA. DEAL WITH IT.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

Aside from PvP exploitation, which has no bearing on the mechanic in PvE, why was this change necessary? There shouldn't need to be a reason given to revert the mechanic but rather a reason given to why the mechanic needed to be changed.

ASIDE FROM PVP EXPLOITATION

Sekkira · Nov 14, 2007, 07:57 AM // 07:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike

B) Your missing the WHOLE point. The reason that thier is such a fuss about the pets corpses is that it DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE. It also goes against what anet have said about pets since the game started. Also if thier is a PVP problem like iway then why not fixed it IN PVP like they did with giveing DP to pets ONLY in pvp. If they said this was to stop B/P teams overpowering tombs and other places then I can see and understand people being annoyed but at least it makes sense. Doing it this way DOES NOT. Aslo it yet another example of a vocal minority (ie pvpers) geting something nerfed that a majority of players in the game (IE pvers) use.

ASIDE FROM PVP EXPLOITATION

Faer · Nov 14, 2007, 07:59 AM // 07:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

reason given to why the mechanic needed to be changed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

What?

Sway = Spiritway = Shitway, a (hopefully now previously) popular HA build involving N/Rt's spamming Spirits and healing using Soul Reaping to fuel themselves to the moon and back, Thumpers (who's pets also provided corpses for Minions on a fairly regular basis to further fuel the necros and add annoyance), and often a trapper or two to make everyone's life hell if they tried to move around to push into the backline or run a relic. Basically, it was, and always will be, dumb. Wasn't hard to beat if you were coordinated and didn't suck at the game, but it steamrolled new players easily, and facing it every other match was a pain in the ass for everybody (even other sway teams).

And that answers both questions. Maybe they will decide to make pets leave corpses in PvE. Maybe they won't. As for the moment, however, there is no "aside from PvP exploitation". It was being exploited. Fixes are being tested. That's how the cookie crumbles.

Shanaeri Rynale · Nov 14, 2007, 07:59 AM // 07:59

Logically pets not leaving corpses makes little sense, why would'nt a fleshy animal leave a corpse? Maybe the ranger feels so bad about having it die it morally wont make a minion out of it - lol.

In all seriousness for PvE, Pets with no corpses is no biggy, neither is the soul reaping change. There are other builds that work besides B/P... I do get the feeling that Anet must want the cookie cutter masses to use that stupid bear skill instead tho

Sekkira · Nov 14, 2007, 07:59 AM // 07:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

The pet corpse change has no effect on anything besides Sway in GvG and HA. Put one and two together. Just suck less.

Don't forget the areas with little to no corpses and B/P builds!

Steboy93 · Nov 14, 2007, 07:59 AM // 07:59

wtf on the pet corpse change...

Vinraith · Nov 14, 2007, 08:00 AM // 08:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

Listen very carefully:

A MINION MASTER IS NOT VIABLE IN EVERY AREA. DEAL WITH IT.

I've never really thought of myself as all that great at this game, but this thread is gradually convincing me that some of the people that play this game are dumb as rocks. I mean, seriously, they have a necro and all they know how to do is use corpse exploitation spells? Scary.