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Old Jul 29, 2007, 09:18 AM // 09:18   #81
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This thread sure make me dizzy reading them.
From my point of view.Comparing my Nightfall monk who was made when NF came out and a Phropercy warrior who just made recently.Both of them playing normally doing quest and missions with full team.I don't notice any different between them.

My warrior still have a few platinum left after buying all skill that he need , signet of capture and the basic max armor with runes and insignias.

I think my play style is casual enough.
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Old Jul 29, 2007, 10:34 AM // 10:34   #82
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It's apparent that loot-scaling had absolutely no effect on the bots, they seem more prevelant now than ever!
I recently visited Granite Citadel to find it empty and went back today.
I've seen perhaps one or two bots there (europe common 1).
Only thing is: loot scaling was introduced because of inflation and that was not only a bot problem. Bots do increase the problem with e-bay gold, but the main problem was that people were 'forced' to farm when they wanted something. And this kept prices high.
Now the farming option is less obvious, prices are lower.

Quote:
A casual style of play is using a balanced party to explore various areas that the game has to offer. .... Unfortunately, this style of play has become extremely unrewarding as Anet continues their attempt to "balance the economy".
I don't see that.
Balanced party means full or almost full to me.
Those players should not have been affected that much by loot scaling.
In Normal Mode, monsters keep focused at one target, are in AoE longer and kite less. Meaning easier to kill.
Drops are not affected by loot scaling in those teams.
In Hard Mode, drops are better (more chance for uncommon, tomes or rare), but take more effort to get compared to normal mode.

My experience is that for full-party players, the situation is better now.
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Old Jul 29, 2007, 11:33 AM // 11:33   #83
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I recently visited Granite Citadel to find it empty and went back today.
I've seen perhaps one or two bots there (europe common 1).
Loot-scaling only caused the bots to change location, there are plenty of threads about the abundance of bots.

Quote:
Only thing is: loot scaling was introduced because of inflation and that was not only a bot problem. Bots do increase the problem with e-bay gold, but the main problem was that people were 'forced' to farm when they wanted something. And this kept prices high.
Now the farming option is less obvious, prices are lower.
Hmmm, I don't remember Anet saying anything about inflation. I also don't remember Anet saying that players were forced to farm to make coin, rather that farmers (bots are farmers too) were making TOO MUCH coin. Prices of NPC items, like materials, armor, dyes, runes, etc have only changed marginally or not at all. Prices on "some" player sold items are lower, but not necessarily due to less players farming, but perhaps because the overall player base has less money to spend. High-end rare item prices seem unaffected, the farmers appear to still have lots of gold.

Quote:
Balanced party means full or almost full to me.
Those players should not have been affected that much by loot scaling.
In Normal Mode, monsters keep focused at one target, are in AoE longer and kite less. Meaning easier to kill.
Drops are not affected by loot scaling in those teams.
In Hard Mode, drops are better (more chance for uncommon, tomes or rare), but take more effort to get compared to normal mode.
It's true, a player in a full balanced party in normal mode is not greatly affected by loot scaling. They didn't get squat before, and they don't get squat now. So, the player that doesn't already have the armor, skills, weapons, heros, etc. to play in hard mode is just out of luck.

Quote:
My experience is that for full-party players, the situation is better now
You stated that a full party or almost full party should not have been affected much by loot scaling, then say in your experience the situation is better now. Actually, the only players hit hard by loot scaling are those that solo farmed in normal mode, not in an abusive way, but to make enough gold to not be in the lowest level of the economy. As usual, the middle class takes the hit LOL.
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Old Jul 29, 2007, 12:40 PM // 12:40   #84
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Originally Posted by strcpy
Hmm, that doesn't make much sense as I never farmed HM without loot scaling. I agree that I would make *more* if there were no loot scaling, however that has no bearing whatsoever on comparing to what I made *before*. I make more now than I did before with less effort - add in lower prices on most things and I'm even better off.
First off, lower prices are a joke. The prices are still nowhere near the point where all casual players can buy them.

Second off, *you* making more cash, doesn't mean everyone does. People say Corsair farm runs used to make great money. I killed the Corsairs, and the 3 bugs, and got lik 1 collector's item, and 2 white weapons. And maybe 100 gold. That's it. While a guildy of mine was like: 'Wooo, my second Colossal Scimitar!'

Quote:
Originally Posted by strcpy
Not sure what you declare as "casual" - I make MUCH more and I know of many that do so also. All of them are casual by any definition. I do not know what yours is, had I enjoyed farming the UW I would make less even though I generally fall into the "casual" classification. I suspect you friends are in my class - borderline.
The lootscaling can't make anyone rich. See, there isn't anything that makes more gold drop, or more quality drops. If the loot scaling was removed, nothing would change for you, at all. When playing in Normal Mode, it's also impossible to make more than before, or it's just lucky drops.

Quote:
Originally Posted by strcpy
No, Anet got what they wanted - less inflation in game, gold farmers prices rising, and true casual gamers purchasing ability increasing. It worked quite well for what they intended and most of these rants just reinforce the decision.
A-Net didn't want less inflation. They wanted high-end vanity weapons and rare skinned weapons to be available to the casual players. However, alot of casual players get nearly to no gold income at all. A part of what they get is gone again with buying skills and Kits, an other part is gone with the occasional Special Fun Weekend, which most players DO participate in.

Casual Gamer's purchasing ability did NOT increase, The casual FARMER's purchasing ability increased. Items are still being sold for 100K + ecto's. The price DID lower, but not to the extents where a casual player can buy them. (For that, all weapons must be in the range of 10K and less.) So it didn't work at all, and the casual players still cannot buy anything they couldn't buy before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by strcpy
Agreed, however it is great for an even larger amount so it's not going to be change no matter how much one rants about it.
I know Hard Mode won't be changed. However, this isn't about Hard Mode, where more golds drop. This is about the Loot Scaling, that does nothing more but reducing drops.

Quote:
Originally Posted by strcpy
And there is the real problem - there are WAY more people who just play through the game than do anything else and this update helps them. The ones complaining are the ones that were *meant* to have their income reduced. I can easily see how it hurts - the only reason I never really farmed those areas was because I hated doing so. However, Anet has said since the beginning that the average person has 20k in the bank, this update really ups their purchasing power and doesn't change their income/hour in the least (if anything it is higher). You and me aren't the target of the increase.
One again, LOOT SCALING DOES NOT HELP ANYONE. What you are talking about, is the exemption list, that made some items drop more, and made prices go down, and Hard Mode, which made other items drop more there, and made the prices on these go down, as well.

LOOT SCALING MAKES PRICES GO UP, NOT DOWN. First few hours with the loot scaling in effect, the trader items' prices increased FAST. And it's really logical. Less items, same amount of people that wants to buy = people will give more for that item. They have to, cause else the guy next to him gets the item.

Quote:
Originally Posted by strcpy
My experience is the opposite - I really wish I could get a few elite tomes farming as it would *really* help one of my skill hunter title characters. I've only gotten them while just playing the game.
Yes, but not everyone gets stuff like tomes when playing through the game. Only tome I EVER had was an Assassin tome from a Locked Chest, and a Ranger Tome from farming Corsairs. That's it. Both of these were NOT of playing through the game, cause the needed mission/quest only nets me about 3 items and some gold in high-end-area's.

In Ascalon, I get WAY more items, but... yeah. 3 gold stuff doesn't help.



Quote:
Originally Posted by strcpy
Which is *exactly* what Anet said their intention was - thus all the post complaining this is the case only reinforces their idea. It's kinda amusing reading threads like this given that- huh
No, Loot Scaling did NOT cause your drops to be better. Was it ever said that Loot Scaling increases the value, quality and amount of drops? NO.

Loot scaling does not change ANYTHING about the value or quality. one again, this is the EXEMPTION LIST. Exemption list made certain things drop more often. However, these things NEVER DROPPED OFTEN, EVEN BEFORE THE LOOT SCALING. Then there is Hard Mode, with a built-in increase for chances of getting quality items.

Once again, loot scaling is NOT the cause for your better drops, and if it was A-net's goal that players get more better drops, they'd just make gold items, greens, materials etc drop MORE. EVERYWHERE. for EVERYONE. But no, they didn't. They didn't help players in 8-man-teams, and they just screwed farmers. They did get what they wanted, and that is to screw some more farmers, which seems to be their hobby, and make more items out of reach for casual players, so that these players will play the game WAY longer, cause it takes WAY longer to buy these items.


Quote:
Originally Posted by strcpy
Very much so - again why so many of the above complaints are only reinforcing Anets decision. The vast majority of things were *not* intended to be high end farmers only even though that is what those people wanted. The ones they wanted to complain are, the ones they didn't want too are purchasing the items the want.
How is the economy balanced from loot scaling?

1-Casual Players still can't buy anything.
2-Rare drops are worth WAY more, as they drop WAY less. If someone gets an ecto now, they can sell for 20K. This is because EVERYONE wants to buy it, but nobody sells, simply because they don't have ecto's anymore.
3-Rich people who already had 250 ecto's, now have their cash doubled. They can just buy about anything, and they don't need to farm anymore.

However, then the exemption list came, and got rid of points 2 and 3. A-Net did NOT do ANYTHING that made Casual Players buy more, though. Sure, they did uppen the loot in Hard Mode, but how many Casuals actually play in hard Mode? how many of them are lucky enough to find a good drop? How many are THEN lucky, and stubborn enough to sell that item?

And once they sold, they STILL can't buy anything, cause it's STILL 100K + ecto's. How are people telling they don't get anything reinforce A-Nets decision?

Here's the situation:

Decreasing drops: Some people unaffected, other people UNHAPPY.
Increasing drops: No people unaffected, everyone HAPPY.

So why did A-Net choose to screw a wide area of players, and not improve the game for the rest? It was only later when A-Net realized their economy was breaking, and they added the exemption list.
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Old Jul 29, 2007, 01:24 PM // 13:24   #85
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Originally Posted by Pro-Monk
Hmmm, I don't remember Anet saying anything about inflation. I also don't remember Anet saying that players were forced to farm to make coin, rather that farmers (bots are farmers too) were making TOO MUCH coin. Prices of NPC items, like materials, armor, dyes, runes, etc have only changed marginally or not at all. Prices on "some" player sold items are lower, but not necessarily due to less players farming, but perhaps because the overall player base has less money to spend. High-end rare item prices seem unaffected, the farmers appear to still have lots of gold.
Directly from the loot scaling comment on original wiki: "This huge influx of new gold caused inflation and made it harder for casual players to afford the items they wanted."

So A-net did say something about inflation.

When I said something about high prices (when only proph was out), the reaction I got was "STFU and farm".
I've seen those responses quite often on forums and in game.
Remember, a bot does not introduce new gold in the economy till he's able to e-bay his gold.
A casual solo farmer will bring new gold in the economy for sure!

Prices on traders did change, but only the high priced.
Player items also dropped in price, but not in the high-end market.

However, for every starting player it's now possible to equip a decent (green) weapon and have full armor with runes in reasonable time.
This has been different, specially with the Factions and Nightfall greens and some runes in that time.

Furtermore, A-net did not want to lower all prices: "Instead of looking for things to sell to merchants, solo farmers should now be looking for things to sell to traders or other players."


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro-Monk
It's true, a player in a full balanced party in normal mode is not greatly affected by loot scaling. They didn't get squat before, and they don't get squat now. So, the player that doesn't already have the armor, skills, weapons, heros, etc. to play in hard mode is just out of luck.
Back when I started playing Prophecies, I was able to get the skills, armor (collectors ftw) and weapons by just playing the game in fullsize teams.
This has not changed and most runes are only a fraction of the price at that time. In Factions, my characters were able to buy their own stuff, again playing fullsized teams. Same for NF, where I was even able to get my 2 characters 15K armor before they reached Vabbi (again, fullsized parties).

Let's see, how hard is it to play HM?
Getting a character through the game should not be that hard, except when you are a new player (and those don't need truckloads of cash).
When you have access to HM, you join PuGs or guild teams.
If you can't find any, search for a better guild

You don't need anything besides a decent skillset, which is about 10K (when you know your builds).
Max weapons are nice, but can also be found for as little as 5K.
You don't need heroes, but they do add value.
You got your max armor by playing through the normal game.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro-Monk
You stated that a full party or almost full party should not have been affected much by loot scaling, then say in your experience the situation is better now.
Drops in full parties have not been affected, yet many trader items got cheaper. That's one part why full-party players are better of now.
The other has not that much to do with loot scaling, but with the introduction of Hard Mode.
A-net introduced HM and loot scaling at the same time and while people view them as two seperate instances, I think they are not.
HM offered more profit from the start for full parties, mainly because of the HM-only items and the higher uncommon/rare droprate.
While A-net was cutting income, they provided a way for players to compensate some of that by playing/farming HM.
Loot scaling backfired, causing introduction of the exemption list.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro-Monk
Actually, the only players hit hard by loot scaling are those that solo farmed in normal mode, not in an abusive way, but to make enough gold to not be in the lowest level of the economy. As usual, the middle class takes the hit LOL.
Agree, but I don't think that's really bad.
I have a new guildie in the guild that used to HA a lot.
The high-end items are their only source of income.
As long as there are people willing to offer high amounts of gold for those items, they will remain expensive.
But I think playing HA is a very bad way to make gold.
It's a lot of 'work' for a chance of a good item.
The only worse ways to make gold are RA/TA/GvG
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Old Jul 29, 2007, 03:11 PM // 15:11   #86
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I don't want to jinx it but Anet seems to be smiling down upon me! Lots of golds allthough no lockpicks yet...
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Old Jul 29, 2007, 03:53 PM // 15:53   #87
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I'm a casual player, about 6-10h/week; since the change I've been gradually increasing my bank ballance... and this is with completely outfitting many of my heros with full runes (including sup vigor in some cases).

One thing I don't do... is buy lockpicks. If you do the economics, they just are not worth it. I do convert regular rewards into keys if I'm going to be in the area, but usually I'll just convert them to an xp scroll, and sell that.
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Old Jul 29, 2007, 05:20 PM // 17:20   #88
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Originally Posted by reetkever
First off, lower prices are a joke. The prices are still nowhere near the point where all casual players can buy them.
Quote:
A-Net didn't want less inflation. They wanted high-end vanity weapons and rare skinned weapons to be available to the casual players.
that is flat out Bandini as high end vanity items are exactly that..........high end

that is why so many equally effective items are available for shoppers of all grades from casual to hardcore.

THEY NEVER MEANT THE CASUAL PLAYER TO HAVE BLACK FOW ARMOR WITH A MILLION GOLD SWORD/SHIELD

that is why they have the 1.5 K armor that protects just as well as the 15 K or the FOW

Quote:
So it didn't work at all, and the casual players still cannot buy anything they couldn't buy before.
in an earlier post you even mentioned that you cant get the boardwalk tickets to get those ticket titles

wanting to be able to buy tickets for an event meant to burn up gold by the million while you are AFK doing something else simply proves you are so far removed from the casual person playing the game it is hopeless

you want every luxury vanity item handed to you for an hour or so a day.

sorry (not really) but that will never happen
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Old Jul 29, 2007, 06:07 PM // 18:07   #89
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Originally Posted by Loviatar
that is flat out Bandini as high end vanity items are exactly that..........high end

that is why so many equally effective items are available for shoppers of all grades from casual to hardcore.

THEY NEVER MEANT THE CASUAL PLAYER TO HAVE BLACK FOW ARMOR WITH A MILLION GOLD SWORD/SHIELD

that is why they have the 1.5 K armor that protects just as well as the 15 K or the FOW

Why did Gaile Grey post here they DID want casual players to be able to buy rare weapons, too, then? Was it all a lie, quickly to be forgotten?

And I never talked about wanting black-dyed FoW Armor, I think. Even WITH being able to farm, that's just too far out of reach.

They DID say something about a million gold sword/shield. It was something among the lines that these items shouldn't be worth that much. I agree with that, but the loot scaling simply didn't lower their prices, as they expected it would.

And once again. Casual Players aren't like drones or computers that have no will. Of course people want their characters to look good. It's not wrong, you know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loviatar
in an earlier post you even mentioned that you cant get the boardwalk tickets to get those ticket titles

wanting to be able to buy tickets for an event meant to burn up gold by the million while you are AFK doing something else simply proves you are so far removed from the casual person playing the game it is hopeless

you want every luxury vanity item handed to you for an hour or so a day.

sorry (not really) but that will never happen
How is wanting to work on titles in any way connected to wanting every vanity item in the game? How is doing stuff in the game in any way connected to NOT being a casual player?

They didn't put in the boardwalk games just for burning up cash. Could it be that they might've had a good idea that might be fun? I happen to love standing on the rings with guildies, talking with the people there while drinking ale or whatever. Are you saying it's forbidden to do that, as I am forced to do nothing but the main storyline?

I wouldn't even WANT to be casual in your world, as you're seeing casual players as mindless drones who do the exact same things without thinking, and do NOTHING except that.

Admit it, there are alot of cool stuff in the game which casual players can't get. This does NOT mean they don't WANT that cool stuff. I'm happy with my life, but if it were possible, I'd like a brand new shiny Ferarri. However, life is life, and to get that, I have to work for it.

Guild Wars, however, is a GAME. Shouldn't we be able to get some nice stuff WITHOUT grinding for years?

And please do not tell what I do want and do not want. You to me, it seems as if you only see 3 groups of people, the casual, brainless people, who only do the storyline without wanting anything else, the hardcore farmers, who want everything possible in the game, and you, the perfect being, able to judge others, and know them from inside out. Sorry to burst your bubble, but you're not God, and you can't tell what each and every casual player does, thinks, and wants.
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Old Jul 29, 2007, 06:50 PM // 18:50   #90
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Tc.. please this has got to be a joke.
I have made 50k in 2 days of farming.. I have sold some weapons... I made 40k from those...

2 days, 90k... so I don't see why you would have to save up for 5 months to purchase 1,5k armor... lol
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Old Jul 29, 2007, 07:05 PM // 19:05   #91
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Wow that's a lot, how much money did you make before lootscaling? x8? 720K in 2 days?

And more imporant; where do you make it?
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Old Jul 29, 2007, 08:01 PM // 20:01   #92
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Guild Wars, however, is a GAME. Shouldn't we be able to get some nice stuff WITHOUT grinding for years?
How about the people that want other nice things besides items.
Like the HA players that have been 'grinding' for more than 2 years now and no player has the highest rank yet.
Or the max Kurzick/Luxon titles that are way out of reach of the casual players. I'm not sure how many people have the highest Campion or Gladiator title, if any.

If you want something, work for it. Even if it's for years.
If you can't stand that, look for an other job.
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Old Jul 29, 2007, 09:35 PM // 21:35   #93
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Loot scaling doesn't help casual players because the primary money-sink in the game has remained consistent.

When the amount of money flowing into the economy is raised or lowered dramatically, you will see a shift in the prices of luxury goods traded between players. High-end desirable skinned perfect weapons, for example. However, the price of armor and skills remains the same as before.

Sure, casual players can afford non-elite armors just as well as they could before, but who wants those? You'll note that some rich players (who became that way long before the solo farming and loot nerfs) believe, however, that elite armor should never be accessible by anyone not as hardcore as they are, and therefore they will ridicule anyone who suggests it's even harder now for casuals to earn elite armor legitimately. But it is. And that's a problem.
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Old Jul 29, 2007, 10:11 PM // 22:11   #94
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Originally Posted by Paloma Song
Sure, casual players can afford non-elite armors just as well as they could before, but who wants those?
maybe most of the player base who are playing GW instead of the i am an elitest who wouldnt touch that 1.5 k junk who think this is GW TYCOON

thats who wants those non elites
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Old Jul 29, 2007, 10:27 PM // 22:27   #95
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Originally Posted by Paloma Song
When the amount of money flowing into the economy is raised or lowered dramatically, you will see a shift in the prices of luxury goods traded between players. High-end desirable skinned perfect weapons, for example. However, the price of armor and skills remains the same as before.
A very valid point, which I think most people misunderstand...

Ectos have gone down (due to the exemptions list, bear in mind), materials in general have gone down in price, and weapons.

1 gold coins is much more worth today, than say, when Prophecies was out. since gold and platinum is mostly harder to get now (and by that I mean that you only merch every item you get, even the top good gold items), you can get much more for much less cash. So why can't A-net skale down the prices on other items then? I'm not saying 15k, or FoW armor should cost zero cash, but things like skills, IHMO, be skaled down (the price, that is). They are, unlike armor, actually important for your character to evolve

Oh, and I don't believe the definition of a casual player is standing a 2-3 hours in Kamadan spamming "WTS!!!!" every time they get a decent gold drop. But then again, we might need a better definition of a "casual" player.
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Old Jul 30, 2007, 12:12 AM // 00:12   #96
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[QUOTE=Loviatar]
Quote:

maybe most of the player base who are playing GW instead of the i am an elitest who wouldnt touch that 1.5 k junk who think this is GW TYCOON

thats who wants those non elites
Ehm no, you see, alot of casual players still WANT the best looking armor. They just can't afford it. If an 1,5K armor happens to be your favourite, they'd happily buy it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by the_jos
How about the people that want other nice things besides items.
Like the HA players that have been 'grinding' for more than 2 years now and no player has the highest rank yet.
Or the max Kurzick/Luxon titles that are way out of reach of the casual players. I'm not sure how many people have the highest Campion or Gladiator title, if any.

If you want something, work for it. Even if it's for years.
If you can't stand that, look for an other job.
There are big differences between these examples and the grinding for cash.

One: about EVERYTHING in PvE costs cash, so it's needed alot more than just the Kurzick/Luxon facton.
Two: It WAS easy to make cash before, so we KNOW it's possible, we KNOW it was better before. If you never give a dog a bone, he won't miss it. If you DO give him one, and then take it away, it will try and take it back, cause it knows what it's missing. This is exactly the same.

Three: The examples used above are titles which don't do alot. The PvP title doesn't mean anything except for showing off, and the Kurzick/Luxon title is just for skills, which shouldn't be linked to a hard-to-get title, at all. Gold, however, is used in like everything in the PvE part of Guild Wars. We're not just talking about farmers here. Chest Runners, Title Hunters, Casual players, casual farmers, UW/FoW teams... they ALL got hit by the loot scaling.

Four: If A-Net were to make the titles you mentioned above easy to get, the people would most likely stop playing that thing after obtaining the highest title. This does NOT count for removing the loot scaling. If the loot scaling is removed, it STILL takes some time before the item can be bought, and people will still keep on playing.

See, if they remove the loot scaling now, the situation will be before Nightfall came out. That situation was good. Items weren't overpriced (Well maybe a little, but it adds up, because it was VERY easy to obtain gold back then), one would get the right amount of reward after doing the right amount of work, and vanity items were about the same price as they are now, maybe a few ecto's higher.
Last edited by reetkever; Jul 30, 2007 at 12:22 AM // 00:22..
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Old Jul 30, 2007, 08:41 AM // 08:41   #97
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Originally Posted by hyro yamaguchi
Wow that's a lot, how much money did you make before lootscaling? x8? 720K in 2 days?

And more imporant; where do you make it?
My numbers arent that high but discounting the items I already had and happened to sell this weekend, I've made about 20K this weekend just playing through the game. Granted, I use bonus items for heroes and runes I find for them so I'm basically not spending any more except for a few skills here and there.

Mind you, this is in NF which also gives you plenty of cash when doing quests and missions.
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Old Jul 30, 2007, 10:21 AM // 10:21   #98
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[QUOTE=reetkever]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loviatar

Ehm no, you see, alot of casual players still WANT the best looking armor. They just can't afford it. If an 1,5K armor happens to be your favourite, they'd happily buy it.




There are big differences between these examples and the grinding for cash.

One: about EVERYTHING in PvE costs cash, so it's needed alot more than just the Kurzick/Luxon facton.
Two: It WAS easy to make cash before, so we KNOW it's possible, we KNOW it was better before. If you never give a dog a bone, he won't miss it. If you DO give him one, and then take it away, it will try and take it back, cause it knows what it's missing. This is exactly the same.

Three: The examples used above are titles which don't do alot. The PvP title doesn't mean anything except for showing off, and the Kurzick/Luxon title is just for skills, which shouldn't be linked to a hard-to-get title, at all. Gold, however, is used in like everything in the PvE part of Guild Wars. We're not just talking about farmers here. Chest Runners, Title Hunters, Casual players, casual farmers, UW/FoW teams... they ALL got hit by the loot scaling.

Four: If A-Net were to make the titles you mentioned above easy to get, the people would most likely stop playing that thing after obtaining the highest title. This does NOT count for removing the loot scaling. If the loot scaling is removed, it STILL takes some time before the item can be bought, and people will still keep on playing.

See, if they remove the loot scaling now, the situation will be before Nightfall came out. That situation was good. Items weren't overpriced (Well maybe a little, but it adds up, because it was VERY easy to obtain gold back then), one would get the right amount of reward after doing the right amount of work, and vanity items were about the same price as they are now, maybe a few ecto's higher.
You forgot:

Five: They enjoy doing what they are doing. People don't play HA for years to get the title. People HA for years because they enjoy it. Comparing that to a mind numbingly boring task is pointless.
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Old Jul 30, 2007, 12:55 PM // 12:55   #99
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Just my $.02 but I can't see how you can have any money problems. Since I got myself NF, I've spent around 95% of the time playing (questing and missions) while the other 5% was farming and what I noticed was my bank account increase. After an hour or two, after a few missions and quests I put in around 3k or so into the account and I don't touch it, this is gold from stuff that drop for me and as rewards however I do not sell runes or any good golds (nor quest reward items like Kournan Coins) since I just give them to my heroes. Because of this I have accumulated a fairly large supply of collectible drops which I use if I ever need to get an item for my heros

Now the only way you don't make any money is because you do things like not pick up your drops or you quest in very low level area (IE Old Ascalon in NM). I mentioned it before, collectible drops from monsters is a excellent way of stocking up your heroes, most of them don't have max level items and even though I could afford to craft them all some from the merch, I much preferred to just kill some monsters and trade it in at a collector.

Also why do you need to spend so much dosh on ID/Salvage kits? A average blue normally sells for 50 gold (assuming it was dropped from a lvl 20+ area) so you've already covered 1/2 the cost of a normal ID kit (which is the only kit I buy. I never buy the ones that cost over 1k). If you are IDing like crazy then you can easily cover the cost of ID/Salvage kits. Heck with both NF and Factions quests, you get those reward items which you can swp for a sup ID/Salvage kit which you can either use or sell (for a tidy profit)
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Old Jul 30, 2007, 01:06 PM // 13:06   #100
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Anyone else find all of these loot scaling threads ironic? Before loot scaling, what did all the the leet rich farmers say when random casual joe said "I want 15k armor too"? They said, work hard for it, save up, and in a couple months you can get it. Now that the leet rich farmers are going poor, what do they do? "Boohoo, I can't afford all of my elite weapons and armor ". Guess what?

Work hard for it, save up, and in a couple months you can get it.

Me personally? I have more gold than I have ever had. I can afford Sup Vigors now for my characters. I can buy runes for my heroes.
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