Curse

Count to Potato · Nov 21, 2007, 07:50 PM // 19:50

if u have prot monks, they wont heal necro so.... Dark Bond maybe?

Turtle222 · Nov 21, 2007, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

Because they get trigger happy with [skill]Blood Of The Master[/skill]

pew pew

so true

dont feel no pain · Nov 21, 2007, 08:47 PM // 20:47

hmmm for some reason my master of whispers gets owned, regardless of build ^^

Vinraith · Nov 21, 2007, 08:48 PM // 20:48

My MM is frequently the last one standing in a party wipe situation, so I don't know what to tell you. It's my SS necro that's always biting it.

Moloch Vein · Nov 21, 2007, 08:55 PM // 20:55

If your MM hero is the first character to die then your MM hero build freaking sucks.

Running anything but 12+1+3 for a dedicated MM hero is dumb.

Dark Bond - Infuse Condition - Mystic Regeneration

Squishy? Right...

Chthon · Nov 21, 2007, 08:55 PM // 20:55

1. You shouldn't be using a minion master hero anyway. Use a minion bomber hero instead. The AI is much, much better with it.

2. The AI's usage of [skill]Blood of the Master[/skill] is very poor. They do not "understand" that minions constantly degenerate, and, as a result, they do not cast BotM soon enough to keep the minions' health from going low, and then, once the the minions' health is low, they go gonzo with BotM and damn the consequences.
(The fact that MBs don't need BotM is a good reason to run MB heroes instead of MM.)

3. Why do I have a strong suspicion that your MM build lacks a self-heal strong enough to offset its sacrifice costs?

4. Here's a hero MB build:
[skill]Jagged Bones[/skill][skill]Death Nova[/skill][skill]Draw Conditions[/skill][skill]Infuse Condition[/skill][skill]putrid flesh[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Minions[/skill][skill]Well of Suffering[/skill][skill]rebirth[/skill]

If the hero is still dying on you, swap putrid flesh or well of suffering for taste of death.
If you don't like rebirth, put in a rez you do like.

Targuil · Nov 21, 2007, 08:55 PM // 20:55

For me, SS dies always first. Livia likes to run frontline to cast his reckless haste to ele who is casting fireball in your face.

Washi · Nov 21, 2007, 10:51 PM // 22:51

Sup Death is a MUST, anyone who doesnt have 16 DM on mm fails. Also [skill]Dark Bond[/skill] helps ALOT.

MercenaryKnight · Nov 21, 2007, 10:57 PM // 22:57

MMs do not cast taste of death as a self heal. (unless an ai update changed this)

Generally they never use that skill because they want to upkeep minions instead.

Squishy ftw · Nov 21, 2007, 11:01 PM // 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Washi

Sup Death is a MUST, anyone who doesnt have 16 DM on mm fails. Also [skill]Dark Bond[/skill] helps ALOT.

/fail

Seriously.

You sacrifice 75 health on your MM for a difference of 2 levels on minions. Those minions are squishies at lvl 16, and they remain squishies at lvl 18. Even more so on HM. I prefer a living MM with lvl 16 minions over a death MM with lvl 18 minions anytime.
Ofcourse, this is just my opinion. But dont say sup death is a must, because it's utter *insert flame*.

Tyla · Nov 21, 2007, 11:08 PM // 23:08

mine is SS.
the enemies always fancy my master of whispers lawl

..L.. · Nov 21, 2007, 11:11 PM // 23:11

My MM doesnt die most of the time thanks to one simple rit skill, mighty was vorazun 8 communing I believe it outlasts its recharge time. +15 armor and +30 energy giving our trusty MM a pool of 60 and if you toss in a +10 while carrying an item or mm insig hel have 85 or 90 armor wich is good enough to keep him out of trouble.

Moloch Vein · Nov 21, 2007, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squishy ftw

/fail

Seriously.

You sacrifice 75 health on your MM for a difference of 2 levels on minions. Those minions are squishies at lvl 16, and they remain squishies at lvl 18. Even more so on HM. I prefer a living MM with lvl 16 minions over a death MM with lvl 18 minions anytime.
Ofcourse, this is just my opinion. But dont say sup death is a must, because it's utter *insert flame*.

You have no clue what you're talking about.

75 health won't make one bloody hell of a difference for a minion master when he's hit by a level 28 monster. Either he's PS'ed, he's under Dark Bond or he dies.

Lower HP makes health sacrifices easier to handle by pip-based regen.

Higher Death Magic makes for more heal from BoTM leading to less required casts.

A minion master is a life saccer. Are you going to request bippers to bring minor Blood next?

It doesn't matter if the minions are "squishies" compared to the mobs. In any area where a real MM is justified, the minions should be as high level as possible. And a level 16 minion is a lot more squishy than a level 18 one.

There is literally no profession where a superior rune is as valuable as for a MM.

Chthon · Nov 22, 2007, 12:29 AM // 00:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squishy ftw

/fail

Seriously.

You sacrifice 75 health on your MM for a difference of 2 levels on minions. Those minions are squishies at lvl 16, and they remain squishies at lvl 18. Even more so on HM. I prefer a living MM with lvl 16 minions over a death MM with lvl 18 minions anytime.
Ofcourse, this is just my opinion. But dont say sup death is a must, because it's utter *insert flame*.

I'm going to have to go with Moloch here, you don't know what you're talking about.

A MM absolutely must have 16 DM. 75 hp doesn't come anywhere close to making up for the extra damage, health, and armor that come from 2 extra levels on your minions, much less for two entire extra minions. I hate to be dogmatic, but there's really no room for sensible disagreement on this topic. The question just is not open for debate.

A MB, on the other hand, can maybe get away with 12 DM. Although the only reason I'd ever think of doing going less than 16 there too is because I couldn't afford to buy the rune for the hero.

free_fall · Nov 22, 2007, 02:11 AM // 02:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinraith

My MM is frequently the last one standing in a party wipe situation, so I don't know what to tell you.

My experience matches Vinraith's.

14 Death, 10 SR, 10 Blood

Survivor scar of Minor Death
Radiant tunic of Attunement
Survivor gloves of Minor SR
Radiant leggings of Minor Vigor
Bloodstained boots of Minor Blood

Bortak's Claw/Torub's Wand - +5E
Shelboh's Gaze/Bloody Knife (collector) 12/+15/-1/+30H

550H, 69E

Dark Bond
Flesh Golem
Bone Fiend
Shambling Horror
Vampiric Horror
Bone Horror
BotM
Resurrect

Other people have other builds which may work better for them but this one has served me well.

Full Metal X · Nov 22, 2007, 02:59 AM // 02:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by free_fall

My experience matches Vinraith's.

14 Death, 10 SR, 10 Blood

Survivor scar of Minor Death
Radiant tunic of Attunement
Survivor gloves of Minor SR
Radiant leggings of Minor Vigor
Bloodstained boots of Minor Blood

Bortak's Claw/Torub's Wand - +5E
Shelboh's Gaze/Bloody Knife (collector) 12/+15/-1/+30H

550H, 69E

Dark Bond
Flesh Golem
Bone Fiend
Shambling Horror
Vampiric Horror
Bone Horror
BotM
Resurrect

Other people have other builds which may work better for them but this one has served me well.

Radiants suck, Golem sucks, 4 minion spells is fail, and if you have a monk with half a decent bar in your group then dark bond is pointless

chowmein69 · Nov 22, 2007, 04:44 AM // 04:44

my MM heroe usually is the last to die , just bring dark bond ,

and the SS usually dies first for me evrytime

free_fall · Nov 22, 2007, 05:04 AM // 05:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Full Metal X

Radiants suck, Golem sucks, 4 minion spells is fail, and if you have a monk with half a decent bar in your group then dark bond is pointless

Thanks for that constructive input to the thread. I guess you missed the last line in my post.

kobey · Nov 22, 2007, 05:23 AM // 05:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squishy ftw

/fail

Seriously.

You sacrifice 75 health on your MM for a difference of 2 levels on minions. Those minions are squishies at lvl 16, and they remain squishies at lvl 18. Even more so on HM. I prefer a living MM with lvl 16 minions over a death MM with lvl 18 minions anytime.
Ofcourse, this is just my opinion. But dont say sup death is a must, because it's utter *insert flame*.

You brough a MM for Hard Mode?

azizul1975 · Nov 22, 2007, 07:32 AM // 07:32

as for the minion skill, bringing [skill]animate vampiric horror[/skill] can be good for MM health too.