Curse

EPO Bot · Nov 20, 2007, 09:13 AM // 09:13

Rawr!!

If you think that bear is hard, better stay away from the Kantandrax dungeon, because the boss there is harder then Ikaruga.

Faer · Nov 20, 2007, 12:16 PM // 12:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by EPO Bot

Needs more Hammer Bash.

Phaern Majes · Nov 20, 2007, 12:55 PM // 12:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. G

Rangers.......?

I think you missed the sarcasm. And I'm pretty sure he was referring to Mesmers. Though rangers have some nice interrupts.

zwei2stein · Nov 20, 2007, 01:53 PM // 13:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phaern Majes

I think you missed the sarcasm. And I'm pretty sure he was referring to Mesmers. Though rangers have some nice interrupts.

Considering that in that case most mesmer abilities are useless (entire power line of interrupts is only applicable to spells/chants) especially that skill stealing, it might not really have been sarcasm

btw: rangers don't just have nice interrupts, they have THE best interrupts. nothing beats well used D-shot.

MagmaRed · Nov 20, 2007, 02:06 PM // 14:06

/sigh

Can nobody read? I beat the quest. I am not complaining it is too hard. I am complaining that it is unfair. Hard but fair is good, I enjoy a challenge. Easy but unfair is bad, I don't enjoy cheats.

Worst thing I saw, nobody has commented on.

I WAS ATTACKED WHILE THE BEAR WAS USING TROLL UNGUENT. This happened more than once, so it was not an issue of lag or me not paying attention. But when I take damage from the bear, and see it moving, while Troll Unguent is less than half completed, it is unfair.

The whole thing annoyed me immensely. Yes, I failed it a few times, because I was not willing to change secondary, and did not have Ursan yet. I beat it without using Ursan, as I don't like the skill anyway.

I want my Ranger to be able to attack during the 3 seconds it takes to activate Troll Unguent.

Ctb · Nov 20, 2007, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Quote:

I don't enjoy cheats

In related news, it's much easier to cheese up NPC enemies in a video game to make them "harder" than it is to develop decent AI for them.

I mean, yea, it's crappy, but it's also typical. The AI for everything in GW is pretty stupid, and GW is a heavily tactical game. You're kind of out of luck because the only way to make the monster "hard" is to give them annoying properties that amount to little more than company-sponsored hacks. The entire set of bonuses bosses receive is the same thing, the whole "attacking while using TU" just takes it a little further.

Mr. G · Nov 20, 2007, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Quote:

I think you missed the sarcasm

i know you are but what am I ^^

Alexandra-Sweet · Nov 20, 2007, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Uhmm don't all games use cheating AI to make it a bit of a challenge?

Why spend years developing a challengable AI when you can have them cheat?

Ctb · Nov 20, 2007, 05:32 PM // 17:32

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Why spend years developing a challengable AI when you can have them cheat?

Because losing to a truly skilled opponent helps you improve. Losing to something that just cheats is simply frustrating because there's usually no tactic to counter the cheating.

I mean, when you face a boss, you usually don't really need to use different tactics compared to the non-boss enemies of the same profession and race. You just have to make sure you keep repeating the old tactic with the understanding that there's no room for mistake. In other words, it's not HARDER, it's just LONGER which makes it all the more irritating when you lose because you hit "3" instead of "2" on the ninth iteration of the same stupid combo.

I wish that game companies could make better AI, but I fear that it's still a long way off, especially for online games.

A11Eur0 · Nov 20, 2007, 07:21 PM // 19:21

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Originally Posted by Faer

All players who are playing Eye of the North have the option to change their secondary and obtain whatever skills they need to complete the quest with ease, cheating bear or no cheating bear.

I really don't see what the problem is.

Not all level 20's are ascended level 20's. I played a quest in GWEN with someone who hadn't gotten past Lion's Arch yet....still had LA-level armor on and was dying every 30 seconds.

Longasc · Nov 20, 2007, 08:12 PM // 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by A11Eur0

Not all level 20's are ascended level 20's. I played a quest in GWEN with someone who hadn't gotten past Lion's Arch yet....still had LA-level armor on and was dying every 30 seconds.

Sad story.

But does not change the fact that a normal person without sub par armor could do it.

Rathcail · Nov 21, 2007, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Ahh the Bear Club quest, good times. I misunderstood the killing blow part and used the club for the whole fight. Didn't matter much of course, since I'm a beastmaster.

Miss Puddles · Nov 21, 2007, 05:10 PM // 17:10

i hardly remember doing this quest it was so easy. did they change it??

BlueSS · Nov 21, 2007, 05:24 PM // 17:24

I did this quest about an hour ago with my warrior. It was quite easy, the bear never had a chance to do anything.

W/Rt

Pain
Bloodsong
Vampirism
Wanderlust
Anguish
Painful Bond
Empty Slot
Empty Slot

Faer · Nov 22, 2007, 06:45 AM // 06:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by A11Eur0

Not all level 20's are ascended level 20's

So what? Are you saying they don't have the option to ascend? Last I checked, everyone playing the game with a PvE character had that option. If somebody chooses not to take advantage of it, well, that's too bad. It's still there though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

I was not willing to change secondary

I think that unwillingness to use all tools at your disposal is probably worse than a bear who "cheats".

Kale Ironfist · Nov 22, 2007, 08:49 AM // 08:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Puddles

i hardly remember doing this quest it was so easy. did they change it??

Between preview and release, yes.

Preview event was Level 20 with no boss buff IIRC.

A11Eur0 · Nov 22, 2007, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faer

So what? Are you saying they don't have the option to ascend? Last I checked, everyone playing the game with a PvE character had that option. If somebody chooses not to take advantage of it, well, that's too bad. It's still there though.I think that unwillingness to use all tools at your disposal is probably worse than a bear who "cheats".

I took your statement as saying they can just click K and change their secondary to use whatever they need...or they can just pop up to Temple of Balthazar and shell out 500 bones for the new secondary, then buy whatever skills they need....

That level 20 who didn't get past LA would need to go all the way to the Desert to ascend, assuming he didn't have factions or NF...not all people have factions or NF thus not everyone has access to the super-cheap spirit build, not everyone has the out-of-the-way towns in proph that offer some of the more useful skills thus would have to be run or get themselves there, then pay even more to obtain these skills. Sure they can PvP and unlock, then tome, these skills but that's more time spent NOT doing what they want to do...which is eotn.

Just because the option is there, doesn't mean it's a viable or attractive option. Some people don't read wiki or guru and don't know these options are out there YET. That may seem strange to you who should know every last detail of this game..but it's true.

This quest and various others are designed for the hardcore players who use every possible resource they can to play their game...they use cookie-cutter builds that have little to no room for error. Forcing a character class to use a weapon that's not made for their profession to complete a quest, and at the same time make the enemy of focus in that quest cheat to no end...that's just stupid.

You see my point right? GWEN is tailored to the elite players but advertised to all. It's a poor design and poorly implemented.

Kale Ironfist · Nov 22, 2007, 09:53 PM // 21:53

Quote:

You see my point right? GWEN is tailored to the elite players but advertised to all. It's a poor design and poorly implemented.

Just the solo master quests. When the entire combat system pretty much hinges on a team fighting another team, 1v1 fights becomes either exercises in frustration or cakewalks, depending on profession (and how you use it).

Then again, these quests are optional, and don't have to be completed to continue the game.

Rathcail · Nov 23, 2007, 01:57 PM // 13:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by A11Eur0

That level 20 who didn't get past LA would need to go all the way to the Desert to ascend, assuming he didn't have factions or NF

Now that sounded odd. How many players, who do not have Factions or Nightfall, get to level 20 but don't get past LA?

MagmaRed · Nov 23, 2007, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faer

I think that unwillingness to use all tools at your disposal is probably worse than a bear who "cheats".

I have Legendary Skill Hunter as one of my titles, so changing secondaries is not an issue, not is having skills available. I used skills from my secondary. What I find disturbing about this quest, and the Norn Tourney, is they virtually require certain classes to use skills from a secondary, and some classes may not offer what you need.

Consider a Monk. The only way a Monk can interrupt the bear is with knockdowns. There are only a few skills to do this, and they all have long recharges. Dolyak Signet makes it worthless to use knockdowns anyway. Now, consider common secondaries seen on Monks, usually for farming. Mo/D has no extra interrupts, so what do they use? Mo/P has 1 potential interrupt, only if using a spear, and conditional. Mo/A has 2 interrupts, but 1 requires daggers, and neither recharge as fast as the Bears Troll.

I have no problems buying skills, as I have enough money to do so. There are quite a few people who do not have money to spend on skills to allow them to complete a quest. Many of those people also do not have secondaries to change to for more options, and may not even have the games (Factions or Nightfall) to offer the classes they may want to use.

I would like to see these quests possible to complete by ALL classes with no use of a secondary. That still leaves some people out, as it may be virtually impossible without owning all the games for skill options. But when you have no team to work with, you are required to do everything by yourself. Some classes do not offer skills to do some of what is needed.

Yes, this is a gripe. The quest is unfair in my opinion, and made worse by the fact that the Bear cheats.