Curse

h2oski · Dec 13, 2007, 08:16 AM // 08:16

Monk heros r very interesting heros because they nver seem to heal when on avoid battle but when theyre put on guard or atttack, they attack more and heal less causing my party to die. what r ur guys thoughts?

OI-812 · Dec 13, 2007, 08:20 AM // 08:20

Wrong forum section...

And unless they're smiters, put them on Avoid Combat. Always, IMO.

wetsparks · Dec 13, 2007, 08:32 AM // 08:32

I have always had mine on avoid battle and never had a problem with them not healing.

upier · Dec 13, 2007, 08:35 AM // 08:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by h2oski

Monk heros r very interesting heros because they nver seem to heal when on avoid battle but when theyre put on guard or atttack, they attack more and heal less causing my party to die. what r ur guys thoughts?

Hero/Hench AI is bad.
But bad builds bring out the worst of it.
Either modify your builds or throw in that 2nd, 3rd or 4th monk even! You're playing with hench - and there are no rules for that!

Avoid or Guard for me btw. Depending how mental they are acting.

h2oski · Dec 13, 2007, 08:37 AM // 08:37

well usually i have 2 mon heros and 2 mon henchies. 1 of my heros runs a prot build while tha other runs a GoL build and they still dont seem to heal wen i put them on avoid or guard

zwei2stein · Dec 13, 2007, 08:38 AM // 08:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by h2oski

well usually i have 2 mon heros and 2 mon henchies. 1 of my heros runs a prot build while tha other runs a GoL build and they still dont seem to heal wen i put them on avoid or guard

Wow ... so you run with 4 monks total?!?

h2oski · Dec 13, 2007, 08:45 AM // 08:45

i do HM =l buti can heal myself however my noob heros cant keep themselves alive!

~ Dan ~ · Dec 13, 2007, 09:00 AM // 09:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by h2oski

Monk heros r very interesting heros because they nver seem to heal when on avoid battle

Your observation is epic fail.

milkflopance · Dec 13, 2007, 09:06 AM // 09:06

4 monks is very inefficient. If you need that many, you're doing it wrong.

If you could post the builds we could help you improve them. That's proberbly where the problem lies.

upier · Dec 13, 2007, 09:18 AM // 09:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkflopance

Let me guess, they're all healers with heal other and healing breeze?

And what is wrong with Heal Other?

Quote:

Originally Posted by h2oski

i do HM =l buti can heal myself however my noob heros cant keep themselves alive!

The problem with running that many squishes (especially if they are AI controlled) is that they will be taking massive damage.
Did you ever consider switching out the heroes for something more durable - like warriors, paragons? And maybe use the third hero slot for something that will help with defence also - Enfeebling/Reckless Haste necro? Something that blinds or dazes? Stuff like this will prevent so much damage that you can easily dump the additional monkies WHILE still doing pretty impressive damage!
So the foes go down faster and cause less damage while they are alive!

bungusmaximus · Dec 13, 2007, 09:22 AM // 09:22

Yup, offense is the best defense, 4 monks = epic fail. too little damage is long fights, when fights get long monsters are at an advantage because you still eat all the damage they throw at you.

milkflopance · Dec 13, 2007, 09:24 AM // 09:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

And what is wrong with Heal Other?

In my experience, heros spam it like idiots.

Quote:

The problem with running that many squishes (especially if they are AI controlled) is that they will be taking massive damage.
Did you ever consider switching out the heroes for something more durable - like warriors, paragons? And maybe use the third hero slot for something that will help with defence also - Enfeebling/Reckless Haste necro? Something that blinds or dazes? Stuff like this will prevent so much damage that you can easily dump the additional monkies WHILE still doing pretty impressive damage!
So the foes go down faster and cause less damage while they are alive!

Agreed with the necro hero, especialy for HM.

zwei2stein · Dec 13, 2007, 09:57 AM // 09:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

And what is wrong with Heal Other?

Heal other is "Timmys" heal - it produces impresive numbers, aight, but its energy wasting in long run, its staple of overhealing and monks who zero their energy in first few seconds of fight.

If you use it as casuall heal, you could have used orison or pretty much any other 5e heal and save energy. If you use it to counter spikes, you ought to use something better, like prot or infuse. Bigger heals are not answer to more damage. Beter heals and prots are.

Its not true garbage, but when compared to what you could have put on bar instead of it, its definielly lacking.

upier · Dec 13, 2007, 10:06 AM // 10:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkflopance

In my experience, heros spam it like idiots.

I never seem to have this problem.
I run a HB monky and I rarely get hit with Other. Unless I REALLY need it.
My guys LOVE to spam Signet Of Rejuvenation. Which is quite superb because it gives their trigger-happy fingers something to do EVEN when they actually shouldn't do anything!

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

Yup, offense is the best defense, 4 monks = epic fail. too little damage is long fights, when fights get long monsters are at an advantage because you still eat all the damage they throw at you.

This is something that I feel one should learn.
Which means if a player has issues with the monks not being able to keep them alive - my FIRST suggestion would be to add more monkies.
Because this might actually be the thing that will work.
IF it doesn't, or better yet, ONCE it doesn't anymore (as shown by the OP) - the player will need to learn that every party formation has it's consequence! One can keep themselves alive for pretty much indefinitely (as NOT shown by the OP!

) - but the party is pretty much unable to kill anything!
Otherwise we are just forcing them to run the marathon, before they are even able to walk!

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Heal other is "Timmys" heal - it produces impresive numbers, aight, but its energy wasting in long run, its staple of overhealing and monks who zero their energy in first few seconds of fight.

If you use it as casuall heal, you could have used orison or pretty much any other 5e heal and save energy. If you use it to counter spikes, you ought to use something better, like prot or infuse. Bigger heals are not answer to more damage. Beter heals and prots are.

Its not true garbage, but when compared to what you could have put on bar instead of it, its definielly lacking.

Actually I wouldn't have a problem with milkflopance naming Orison. Because that one is REALLY bad. Heal Other on the other hand is a very good option for a monky hero. They SERIOUSLY suck with Infuse - and Other seems to be a very good choice for that occasional big heal (of course with HB!)
At least in my experience.

ele pl · Dec 13, 2007, 10:42 AM // 10:42

Well.. anyway i must agree-hero/hench AI is very very bad. Anet realy need to fix that. But however, hero/hench Ai monks is enough to do all vanquishes and guardians at all 3 continents. I havent done that so far, but i know some people who have that.

gremlin · Dec 13, 2007, 10:45 AM // 10:45

Me + 3 Heroes
Warrior + Monk + Necro
I usually swap out the necro hero when playing mine but not always sometimes Olias on mm and me on SS works well.

Henchies depending on area and my Character class, I like to have 2 warrior types in the party, but also like 2 Ele at times.

Usually its
Dervish + Paragon + Ele + Ranger.

All the heroes have a self heal and a rez as do I

I am sure there are better ways of running an Ai party but it works well enough when I need to use one.

RhanoctJocosa · Dec 13, 2007, 10:48 AM // 10:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

Yup, offense is the best defense, 4 monks = epic fail. too little damage is long fights, when fights get long monsters are at an advantage because you still eat all the damage they throw at you.

QFT.

I used to always run 1-2 monks (lod+sod) until Faer introduced me to the sexyness of hero Paragons. Seriously, run 2 Angelic Bond Paragons (you'll need to micro a bit) and a curse necro or weapon rt (if you're melee) and you'll rage everything in the face. Thank me later.

btw everything you want to attack put on guard, rest avoid.

because i'm so incredibly bored here are the bars i use (keep in mind i always swap stuff around according to the area):

Paragon 1
[skill]Aggressive Refrain[/skill] [skill]Vicious Attack[/skill] [skill]Spear of Lightning[/skill] [skill]Signet of Return[/skill] [skill]Angelic Bond[/skill] [skill]"Shields Up!"[/skill] [skill]Anthem of Flame[/skill] [skill]"Watch Yourself!"[/skill]

Paragon 2

[skill]Aggressive Refrain[/skill] [skill]Merciless Spear[/skill] [skill]Spear of Lightning[/skill] [skill]Signet of Return[/skill] [skill]Angelic Bond[/skill] [skill]"Go for the eyes!"[/skill] [skill]Anthem of Weariness[/skill] [skill]Anthem of Envy[/skill]

Rt (note the two interrups were for charr meteor showers in cathedral of flames, the last thing i did with him)

[skill]Weapon of Remedy[/skill] [skill]Vengeful Weapon[/skill] [skill]Leech Signet[/skill] [skill]Splinter Weapon[/skill] [skill]Ancestors' Rage[/skill] [skill]Power Drain[/skill] [skill]Protective Was Kaolai[/skill] [skill]Death Pact Signet[/skill]

EPO Bot · Dec 13, 2007, 10:57 AM // 10:57

Heal other is ok if the health bar of the character you heal with it isn't completely full after using it. No HP's wasted then.

Toutatis · Dec 13, 2007, 11:03 AM // 11:03

For heal, prot or heal/prot hybrid monk heroes, I always put them on avoid combat. A critical party support member like that has no business attacking and attracting unnecessary aggro like that IMO, and the AI doesn't need to be engaged in combat to cast support spells on allies.

For smiting monk heroes, I tend to put them on guard. If they're set to avoid they'll never target enemies (and I use Castigation Signet as part of their energy management strategy so they need to hit the occasional monster once in a while).

Faer · Dec 13, 2007, 11:06 AM // 11:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

Faer

oshi- namedrops, lul.

Paragons are pretty badass though. Providing key passive defense while also adding nifty DPS? Yesplz. Throw in a Necro/Rt healer alongside a henchie Monk, and you are good to go. There's no way you can fail, unless you are bad IRL.